Tanking AUD effects on housing market

Sumterrence,

It appears you have a strong assumption that asian people who come here to buy are full of money, speculative and naive?

:confused: :eek: :eek:

Yea as I said I might be stereotyping against them, and just to clarify I'm from Chinese background too and 99% of my life style are surrounded within the Chinese communities.

Anyways, what I'm saying is, as far as I can see, I've seen NONE savvy Chinese property investors, yes that's right NONE!! when ever I engage property investment conversations with them, they always tell me the reason why they bought this is because this agent told them to, and that it works in China and Hong Kong so it must also work here........

And to answer your question, for people that live in a country like Australia which have a very balanced rich: poor ratio, it's ridiculous to see people from China which behave like any normal people, and sometimes behaving worst than any ordinary people, loaded with so much money, buying not 1 not 2, but they buy the whole freaking floor or dozens of units within the same complex with just a threat from the agent telling them

"you have 2 minute to make your decision, I've got a tones of people lining up to sign this contract if you don't want it!" :eek:
 
As you say so, that would only confirm that there is a high demand for Australian properties. When there is high demand and supply is short, price will hold or go up.

As an interesting observation, a whole floor may sound a lot but in fact it is not. If a unit can house three persons then a whole floor of ten units can only house 30 persons.

This is only a drop in a sea of millions and millions of nouveau rich asian middle class.
 
"you have 2 minute to make your decision, I've got a tones of people lining up to sign this contract if you don't want it!" :eek:

Yep. Melbourne. Another Chinese city full of empty apartments. The big developers are marketing hard to Asia. Some tower blocks are sold entirely to Asian/Chinese buyers. In Sydney Asian buyers can represent up to 90% of buyers. It gives the appearance of a buoyant market. Trouble is coming.
 
Yep. Melbourne. Another Chinese city full of empty apartments. The big developers are marketing hard to Asia. Some tower blocks are sold entirely to Asian/Chinese buyers. In Sydney Asian buyers can represent up to 90% of buyers. It gives the appearance of a buoyant market. Trouble is coming.

+1 Freckle
walking about Docklands at night and you can see 90% empty apartments with no lights on at night.
It will go bad before it gets better

Cheers
 
+1 Freckle
walking about Docklands at night and you can see 90% empty apartments with no lights on at night.
It will go bad before it gets better

Cheers

I feel for the small business who lease commercial sites to set up small retail to service the expected new occupancy only to find they've invested in a ghost town.
 
Not that much.

The Chinese will buy irrespective of the dollar, because they're all gazzillionaires (seriously).

The rest won't buy because well... you're not looking at Japan despite a yen that's crashed no?
 
+1 Freckle
walking about Docklands at night and you can see 90% empty apartments with no lights on at night.
It will go bad before it gets better

Cheers

I think this is a just a little bit of an exaggeration. You hobeslty claiming that 90% of docklands apartments are empty?
 
Is Japan the go right now?

Hmm, it's pretty good from some perspectives.

But like most markets, if you go in there purely with a macro strategy, with no idea about the micro, you lose your competitive advantage. Take Sydney for example. Even though it's quite pricey, I can spot the exact fundamental reason why one house sells for less or one sells for more, despite being one street away from each other, and that allows me to swoop on something that's mispriced by the market (irrespective of whether the market as a whole is fundamentally overpriced). I'd know the history, the owners for the past 200 years (maybe that's an exaggeration), other buyers, other sellers etc. That's a competitive advantage I'd lose in Japan.

That said, I have been talking to various buyer's agents in Japan. This is what's going for Japan:

- Tokyo population continues to increase;
- Rates are dirt cheap and LVR can be high (locals borrow at 0.7% to buy PPOR and can borrow 100% sometimes);
- Yields can be high (if you looked hard enough, this is where the competitive advantage points comes in);
- Yen is low (I'm holding primarily USD and RMB so it looks even cheaper to me);
- Abe and his Abenomics looks like they'll romp back into Diet;
- Olympics in 2020;
- Tokyo has retaken the big 3 behemoths (NYC, HK, London) as the most traded commercial property market in the world
- American hedgies are swooping onto the city (eg Blackstone etc)
- Tokyo is frankly an awesome city

Problems include:

- It is difficult to borrow for foreigners;
- If you manage to borrow (and it is possible), you end up borrowing at maybe 2-2.5% interest rates, with low LVRs, which defeats the whole purpose of the strategy;
- There are no IO loans, only P&I, reducing IRRs on most propositions to something I can easily achieve in Syd/Bris/Melb and possibly even NYC/London/HK;
- Japanese economy is up **** creek
- Is the mild 'inflation' Abe generating good for the economy, or is he simply importing higher energy prices?
- Japan has the biggest public debt to GDP in the world (but this is mostly held by the Japan Postal Bank and some other Japanese institutions);
- But Japan has a declining population
- So what happens when the old people need to withdraw their deposits? Does that mean Japan needs to fund the debt externally and end up like Greece/Italy/other garbage countries?
- If Japan does not amend ties with the biggest market the world is yet to see (China), what economic future does the country really have in the Asian region?
- In short, all these problems stem from the fact that Japan is the biggest welfare state the world has ever seen (apart from the United States). Can they really continue to sustain all these egilatarian laws and get away as the world tilts towards the Chinese model and countries like Sth Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam and India with a much smaller welfare bill and cheaper salaries continue to compete? Where's Japan's future?
- The place has radiation (?)
 
Its at 82 today this time last year I think it was 90 something...... year before that it was 1.00+.

It is trending downwards and predicted to go as low as 72 next year, that is huge 30%.
But that's just against one currency that doesn't matter much to a lot of people. Against other world currencies the AUD had not declined so much.
 
Hmm, it's pretty good from some perspectives.

- Tokyo is frankly an awesome city

Problems include:

- It is difficult to borrow for foreigners; Especially if you only speak 'Japanese for Busy People".

- Japanese economy is up **** creek big time. Though as pointed out previously, they'll get a handle on it eventually.

- But Japan has a declining population 'World leaders' in this domain.
- So what happens when the old people need to withdraw their deposits? Does that mean Japan needs to fund the debt externally and end up like Greece/Italy/other garbage countries?
- If Japan does not amend ties with the biggest market the world is yet to see (China), what economic future does the country really have in the Asian region?
- In short, all these problems stem from the fact that Japan is the biggest welfare state the world has ever seen (apart from the United States). Can they really continue to sustain all these egilatarian laws and get away as the world tilts towards the Chinese model and countries like Sth Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam and India with a much smaller welfare bill and cheaper salaries continue to compete? Where's Japan's future?
- The place has radiation (?) Yes - which is just another one of the reasons that investment would be down right now.

Thanks for the info.
I think the main one for me is not knowing the language well enough let alone the laws and financial red-tape. And not knowing enough about the place and the real estate there.
I agree it would be a good opportunity for someone who could speak the language and knew the right people, though.
 
Not long now....

Very smart people have two schools of thought on this. Having a lot of debt is not an issue if you owe yourself the debt, unlike say USA.

But more importantly, if you are productive, you sort yourself out. Only civilisations that do nothing enter dark ages, like Egypt, Greece, Italy etc. Japanese continue to be pioneers of technology and have a lot to offer the world. Just look at the big brands - Sony, Toyota, Mitsubishi etc. Obviously the Chinese are catching up (Hisense, Lenovo) and Koreans have caught up (LG, Samsung, Hyundai).

All-in-all, if I were Japanese, I'd be moving on to what I see as many opportunities in Tokyo right now. A while back I went to look at a Melbourne CBD shop (didn't end up buying it). The vendor sold it for around A$3.4m. He was a Japanese chef who operated the restaurant for 20 years and eventaully bought the shop. When I asked what he was doing with the money, he said he was going back to Tokyo and swooping on the market. Oh and living there for 70% of the cost of living here but double the quality of life (ignoring the radiation).
 
Interesting insights db.

I'm curious as to why you believe tokyo has double the quality of life, especially for someone of this guy's age.

I love Japan, have been 5 or 6 times and do a lot of business with the japanese. As much as I love the people, place and culture I think it would be a pretty tough place to live long term, we've got it bloody easy in Australia
 
Hmm I think Australia's great for older people who want to come to retire, go fishing, walk in big parklands, do gardening etc. I'd probably leave at some point (if the numbers make sense) and come back here at 60 or so to retire.

I find cities like Tokyo a lot more cutting-edge and at the forefront of technology, innovation. The inspiration of these places are pretty important for me. In Australia, we tend to follow people's technologies and adopt their products. I think as I grow older, these things become less important. But I'm probably still at the age (29) where I still chase smoke and mirrors.

On lifestyle, I like cheap Asian food and eating omakase in random laneways (or eating at random congee shops in Hong Kong in an alleyway). Hmm another one is probably variety in shopping and having something to do at 10pm (whether it's shopping, going karaoke, eating around at street markets til 1am). But what probably impresses me the most is the level of service. How much money would I have to pay someone here to get the same level of service I get even at McDonalds? The service at most places here is pretty average if not poor. And the packaging of items, renovations, decoration etc. It's a visual quality of life. Something that doesn't exist here because, well I don't know, it just doesn't. When I spend money at a restaurant or shopping center, I do it for the 'experience', not just because I want to eat or buy something. If that's all I wanted to do, I could cook at home or buy the same product on the internet. And all this for 70% of the cost here.

That said, I don't think I'd ever go to any Asian city to work. I wouldn't be able to work hard enough, nor deliver the 'service' they can, and I don't like working past 6pm which everyone does. I'd only look at it from the perspective of going there with passive investments somewhere (be it Aust, Asia or whereever) and enough dividends/rent to support a certain lifestyle, then enough spare capital to do something interesting there. So yes we certainly have it easy here, especially as employees. My comment about service is a case in point. But when we no longer need to work and want to enjoy the fruits (dividends, rents) of our capital, I find Asia much more suited to this.
 
Very smart people have two schools of thought on this. Having a lot of debt is not an issue if you owe yourself the debt, unlike say USA.

A fallacy DB. While Japan may fund the bulk of their own debt someone internally is on the hook for it. That's usually Mr & Ms Wantenabe.
 
2. The dodgy agents have been brainwashing these loaded but not so money savvy Asians that they can speculate on OTP contracts by locking in the contract today and pay 10% deposit, wait for 3 months later the property will rise by $100k and sell the contract

Hah Just saw the exact scenario happen recently. A friend who is an agent con(vinced) another friend to buy OTP apartment with the expectation that it will go up 100k before it is completed. Both parties Chinese (not from Mainland though), hope it doesn't end in tears for the friend who bought.
 
Back
Top