Tenant & Agent vs Landlord?

Not sure if this belongs to legal or PM section, but basically I have situation where it has gone longer than it really needs to be.

Over the past year and a half we have been trying to vacate a tenant.
The tenant is under our PM bankstown professional.

beginning roughly in 2012 October we gave notice (3 months notice following the standards after contract is over). Tenant decides not to do anything after February 13' so we increase rent by $10 to scare them off but they didnt mind the increase, so now we gave another 3 months notice to vacate (apparently PM say it resets the vacate notice if you increase rent after 2 months) - so in May-June they ignored it once again.

Now we went tribunal got an order that they have to move by august. Comes August, they left on the very last week. Happy that we were but it was bad timing as they unexpectedly move whenever they want since they were noticed with Vacate from tribunal. (this is unfair they get to leave when they want and without notice since we have serve notice and paid tribunal and PM to kick them out is ridiculous law).

After they moved out, we inspected and property was extremely dirty. We wanted to claim bond but PM decided not to and told me they'll have to charge high prices to go tribunal again and apply for it will cost a lot and that I would lose because it wasnt THAT dirty (mind you there was toilet bowl is inusable, mud and dirt on all walls, broken oven, broken lights, needed repaint entire 2br unit, change vanity, etc).
So we end up leaving these guys and go into a new PM2 i explained the story and they would help get the bond back (sales tactic I suppose).

2 weeks later, bankstown professional decided to release bond without my authority, so bond is now gone and PM2 dont know whether to go CTTT to claim bond from tenant as its been release (and dont know where they live) or to go CTTT/ACCC against PM1's unauthorised action (PM1 think they are innocent).

Now I am stuck with this situation as PM2 doesnt seem to be capable of doing this claim any longer (how convenient.. not).

I will step up to this now that I have to, but its been another 4 months nearing December where everyone is in holiday mode.

How can I escalate such claims i just want my money back for the repairs.

Rgds
D
 
beginning roughly in 2012 October we gave notice (3 months notice following the standards after contract is over). Tenant decides not to do anything after February 13' so we increase rent by $10 to scare them off

Why didn't you just act on the notice to vacate back in Feb? Whose decision was it to increase the rent by $10?
 
I would be making a claim against the previous agent for your loss, make sure you have photos of damage by the previous tenant and receipts for all of your expenses relating to getting the property back up to scratch.

Contact Fair trading in your state for some advice on how to take action.
 
Take your PM to court over releasing the Bond against your authority.
They sound like they are incompentant.

They will probably settle with you before it ends up in court.
Represent yourself.
Stick to the facts.
This no longer has anything to do with the tenant.

The PM was not looking after your interests.
.
 
Thanks Sez,

I will get onto Fairtrading - last time I called, they referred CTTT for chasing up the bond (even its released) and ACCC against the agent, I thought I'd just get my money and chas up the bond with old tenants but unfortunately its not working (no contact of tenant), It's like chasing a ghost. The ex-PM doesnt want to provide these details either, i wonder why ...

@alexlee - the reason we wanted them out was because there was large structural cracks in bedroom that needed to be amended and tenant wouldnt let anyone in. Increasing rent was a tactic to get them to start looking for a new place and leave, this is our first time doing so. We didn't want to forcefully do anything until it was too late.
 
@alexlee - the reason we wanted them out was because there was large structural cracks in bedroom that needed to be amended and tenant wouldnt let anyone in. Increasing rent was a tactic to get them to start looking for a new place and leave, this is our first time doing so. We didn't want to forcefully do anything until it was too late.

That doesn't make sense. You should have followed the process for getting them out, which is issuing the notice to vacate and then actually following through with it, not 'raise the rent and try to scare them off', which has no legal standing and in this case has obviously blown up in your face.

Yes, your PM doesn't sound very competent. But then, you chose not to follow the proper legal procedures?
 
That doesn't make sense. You should have followed the process for getting them out, which is issuing the notice to vacate and then actually following through with it, not 'raise the rent and try to scare them off', which has no legal standing and in this case has obviously blown up in your face.

Yes, your PM doesn't sound very competent. But then, you chose not to follow the proper legal procedures?

Well the idea of raised rent was so 1. we can get the tenant to move (if I got raised rental after a short period, I would start looking elsewhere) and 2. gave us bit more money instead of spending more on tribunal costs.

Either way it took the third notice to vacate, and the issue is tenant has walked away with a mess and with bond money.

Adding to the issues:

Although we did not tell PM to release bond, we didn't say not to release bond either. We switched agent 2 weeks after tenant left knowing PM1 told us they charge high cost on a losing battle. then a week later this bond was released, do they have the rights to?
 
Landlords rely on their agent to advise them of the correct procedures and unfortunately a lot of PM's won't like to say 'no, that's not the right way to do it' to a client, even if it is in their best interest.

Regardless of the case, it was the PM who has failed in the duty to you and it is due to them that you have no way to get compensation from the tenant, chase the agent and get what you can. Usually they will pay out when you advise of your intentions to claim against them.
 
I'll be as gentle as I can cos you sound like a complete property virgin.

I will step up to this now that I have to

Far too late chief. The responsibility horse has bolted.

Lesson learnt - you are the Landlord. The authority for everything anything bad that flows from it, will always flow back into your lap - always. The Tenant couldn't give a rats....you've found that out, they are only interested in minimising their costs and workload, and the agent couldn't give a rats....you've found that out too, they are only interested in increasing their fee charged and minimising their cost and liability.

Someone has to shoulder the cost and the ultimate liability of getting the joint back up to scratch. If both the Tenant and Agent won't cough up, unless you can find a 4th party who is interested in shouldering the burden, then it's up to you.



I just want my money back for the repairs.

I'd forget about any "claim" and simply kick yourself up the ****, slap yourself around the chops and forgive yourself for being such a gullible donkey. By reading your original post you had about 5 or 6 clear decision points during the year when you could have helped yourself, and you muffed every one of them to your detriment.

Grab the rule book and read up for yourself what your rights and responsibilities are for the game that you have chosen to play. relying on others and hoping they have your back lands you in these types of predicaments.

Never start to play a game when you have no clue what the rules of the game are. Doing nothing and not knowing anything about the rules and then expecting to come out on top is foolhardy to say the least.

Take this as a lesson and get your act together swift smart. If you are switched on, you'll grow into much more than you are now, and this lesson will end up being very cheap indeed. If you choose not to learn and extract from it every lesson that is there for you to learn from, it will just be a little road bump. Most people learn nothing from it. Don't be like most people.
 
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Sounds to me like the first agent released the bond as a final HURRAH! to spite you after you terminated their management.
 
OP never gave instructions to the first PM whether to release or not release the bond... how many 1time IP owners out there, rarely contact their pm, and just leave it all up to the pm!.. The pm gave the OP a choice... they could chase it in court for bond... OP never responded to PM.. PM cannot hang onto money forever, and they would of either had to release money in certain timeframe or put in claim in certain timeframe. The PM is not a mind reader!.


" Adding to the issues:

Although we did not tell PM to release bond, we didn't say not to release bond either."
 
Have to agree with Dazz on this, suck it up and move on.

For the amount of money you are talking about, when u put an hourly rate on your time and effort chasing it up you would be crazy to bother, learn the lesson and move on.
 
Sounds messy.

PM's can be incredibly useful when something happens, or cost you money - as above.

The thing that bothers me most is the fact that they charge high rates for tribunal.

When shopping around, look at ALL the figures, not just the management fee. I don't charge for tribunal as I try to avoid it and I feel the management fee should cover this, otherwise what are you actually paying for?

Sometimes you need to write off a loss, but in this case I'd be starting hell in the PM's office. You were paying them for a service, which they did not provide and whilst you need to take some responsibility (ie. increasing the rent within the NTV period) the PM should've advised you of any potential repercussions of this would be (ie. makes notice invalid).
 
Just claim the loss through your landlord insurance and move on. Not worth the grief. You have no guarantee with the tribunal either.

We had a hearing where the tenant claimed they could only pay $5.00 a week. The judge accepted this, so will take them 5 years to pay off the debt.. what the....As soon as they stuff up though, late with one payment. straight back to tribunal where they will be forced to pay the full amount remaining upfront.
 
Just claim the loss through your landlord insurance and move on. Not worth the grief. You have no guarantee with the tribunal either.

Don't forget you may not be covered if you haven't attempted to mitigate your loss first (ie. attending tribunal) and that some insurance policies charge an excess per event.

Insurance is always the last option.
 
We had a hearing where the tenant claimed they could only pay $5.00 a week. The judge accepted this, so will take them 5 years to pay off the debt.. what the....As soon as they stuff up though, late with one payment. straight back to tribunal where they will be forced to pay the full amount remaining upfront.

We had one like that. Got sick of going to the tribunal with bad results, so.....I put the rent up. Did it every six months. They still had to pay the extra $x per week on top of it. The PM finally harassed them enough that they paid all outstanding money.

By the time I got rid of them the rent was over market by about $30pw. That was my 'hurt' money for them being a right PITA. BTW, the only way we eventually got rid of them was because they flooded the kitchen & it was an insurance job. They had to move out because it was inhabitable.

All ended well. I got my rent and I got a new kitchen. Had a heap of cleaning, fixing, painting etc to do, but was a good outcome. Now I've got good tenants in the property.
 
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