Tenant operating family day care

Hi

I have read throng past threads on his issue but some of them are quite dated and there doesn't seem to be a definitive conclusion to the issues raised.

We have recently purchased a property interstate. When we viewed it we realised that the tenants appear to be or have been operating some form of day care. The tenants are Sudanese and there is some difficulty in getting a straight answer from them as to whether it is currently operating. We called the company itself and got the same non-committal answer. If it is operating, we aren't sure whether it is actually a registered organisation at all.

Do we or should we disclose this to our insurer notwithstanding from a factual perspective we aren't certain as to whether a business is actually operating and given we have instructed the PM to issue a breach notice and ask them to stop it immediately if it is going on? If it is happening, where do we stand from a liability perspective given we have not consented to the business if it is operating?
 
Hello
Something to consider is whether this household may be privately child minding within their own family, say nieces and nephews, which is kinda legal or are they operating an unlicensed "business". Your insurance company will want to know what is going on and you can use this as a very good reason to shut them down immediately. The tenants' compliance may be a different matter, which is what you engaged the PM to deal with.

And yes you could have very serious legal issues. The fact they were vague about discussing this when you enquired about the "company" is a red flag to me.

This is not legal advice, just based on my own experiences how insurance companies generally do not allow running a business from your premises any more. If this is unlicensed, then it can potentially be as difficult as having a meth lab business in operation. The potential for trouble is seriously high.
 
One would think our liability would be limited because we have not given out consent and so the tenant is doing so at their own risk. The problem is we aren't sure whether it is happening or not. Some advice we havens that it may be a centrelink dodge to obtain child care benefit, again only supposition.
 
Check it with the local council - they should know if there is a family day care being run from the ip.

Child services etc would also be able to confirm the requirements if it has been inspected and registered.
 
One would think our liability would be limited because we have not given out consent and so the tenant is doing so at their own risk. The problem is we aren't sure whether it is happening or not. Some advice we havens that it may be a centrelink dodge to obtain child care benefit, again only supposition.

The issue you could face is that if a child is injured eg broken window, not safety glass and you are sued as the owner. If your insurer does not indemnify you, you would be out on a limb on your own. Although you could cross claim against the tenant they might not have insurance or you could be found to be partly negligent.
 
I have a reasonable amount of sudanese clients who run registered day care from home. All are registered receiving both centrelink and payment for child care which centrelink know about. They also have the correct insurance in place in case of injury on the property as this was asked when arranging home & contents insurance.
 
Council has to approve home day care. I cant imagine how they could get the necessary approval without your OK as it requires major refit to comply. (unless they didn't get approval) Its heavily regulated if its legit. If not it screams RISK. Uninsured ?

The wear and tear a big concern. If your lease is a resi lease what does it authorise ??
 
We bought it with the tenants in it sight unseen save for photos which didn't sow the signage etc we sore when we viewed it after settlement. The lease prevents them carrying on a business without our consent which has not been given so we have breached them today.

The insurance is my concern. The thing is to the extent one hasn't authorised a business or is not reasonably aware that it is going on than I struggle to understand how a landlord could be liable on circumstances where Tenant ha knowingly breached the agreement and is running what could be an illegal business? I doubt a landlord could be held liable in the circumstances?
 
I doubt a landlord could be held liable in the circumstances?

Sounds like you are sitting on a pile of dynamite ,but then again if you end up in court and the Barrister has had a hard night on the vino,and the lease on the bmw,the private school fees are all over due,and he's just found out the lawn mover- maintenance person is doing more then they are required you may be ok,,,ONE CALL TO YOUR INSURANCE WILL FIX THIS,..
 
I am a lawyer, but no nothing about insurance or negligence.

There is something known as occupier liability. You and the tenant could be jointly liable if a visitor to the property has an accident and sufffers some sort of loss which relates to your negligence and was not reasonably unforseeable. I would suggest you seek legal advice from a lawyer specialising in this area.
 
I'd be giving them notice to vacate. If a tenant can't be honest with you wen its obvious they are doing the wrong thing it's the only solution really. You don't need to give them an excuse for a standard notice but you do just have to ride out the specified time. They could leave early if they find another property but that's better for you.

If one of the children are hurt on the premises it's your *rse whether you have knowledge or give consent to the goings on there. They will just look for compensation wherever thru can find it and a potentially unsafe premises is an easy target.

Have you given them a call pretending to be an interested parent?
 
We did try and call the agency who said they no longer offer services at that address which is the same answer the tenant gave.

I think the legal question of liability is an interesting one. This could potentially happen in any home between inspections unbeknown to the land lord - I would be surprised if a tenant could rely upon its own breach to bring a case of negligence where the land lord had not given its consent or known about the breach but I'm just a bush lawyer, not a real one.

We have issued a breach notice and Ill inform my insurer.
 
Will it be on the op's ****?
That is so unfair.
If i were someone, who, to the best of my knowledge, had no knowledge of illegal activities, I'd fight the insurers in court.
 
I tend to agree I think it's a more complex legal question the assuming the landlord has liability for things it is not reasonably aware of.
 
I tend to agree I think it's a more complex legal question the assuming the landlord has liability for things it is not reasonably aware of.

But you now are aware of it, so I don't think that would stand up.

The ratio changed sometime in the last year (at least in NSW, not 100% sure about nationally) which caused quite a few FDC services to stop operating and quite a few more to continue operating but not legally. Very annoying that it wasn't disclosed but I really don't think you can ignore it & hope for the best.
 
We haven't, they have told us they aren't doing it and we have served them a breach and requested a written undertaking that they aren't doing it - what else can you do?
 
I have a reasonable amount of sudanese clients who run registered day care from home. All are registered receiving both centrelink and payment for child care which centrelink know about. They also have the correct insurance in place in case of injury on the property as this was asked when arranging home & contents insurance.

Hi Brady, would you mind sharing who you insure with, my insurer wasn't so receptive.

Anyone know a half decent property lawyer in Sydney who can provide advice?
 
Get them out now. Kid suffers catastrophic injury. Insurer won't pay as there was nothing about daycare for money ever mentioned when you took out the policy. Injured kid's parents can sue the penniless Sudanese operators or the owners of the land upon which the injury occurred for not making it safe for all entrants (including injured kid).

Put them into the Council. Just make sure your lease has "residential" written on it.
 
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