Tenants purchased property - what is fair compensation for the agent

They drove the tenants around to look at other similar properties.

The above statement makes me think they knew they weren't entitled to any commission from you as they had passed on a request from tenants for your consideration.

Do what you feel is right, IMHO 6K is too much, but a little cash bonus or gift is acceptable.



Cheers
Sheryn
 
The above statement makes me think they knew they weren't entitled to any commission from you as they had passed on a request from tenants for your consideration.

That is actually a really good point Sheryn - in doing that, they actively tried to get the buyers buy other properties (that they did have a contract to sell), and not AlexG's! I wonder if the Agent would even have told AlexG about the tenant's offer if they had bought one of the properties they were taken to!

Redlake, maybe good Karma is the Agent not asking for money they really hadn't earned! $6k for driving someone around looking at other properties, nope!
 
Im a long term player in a very small geographic area and I heavily depend on the local REAs. I would be paying them a decent sum.

If I had a different investing strategy I would feel differently.
 
Update

Update: This has now gone beyond a joke:

I just got a call from my mum (who is old and frail). They told her that the commission is $10,000, that all things considered I should pay $5,000, but if we paid cash asap they would 'accept' $3,500. They then drove her to the bank, she withdrew $3,500 and handed them the cash.

The 'saving grace' was that the agent told my mum (after they had the cash in their hands) that they wanted my mum to phone me and get my ok first. My mum then spent the next 25 minutes trying to persuade me to allow them to keep the money. She kept talking about how they put in all this effort driving the people around to look at properties and how they should receive some reward for that. I got mad at my mum at one point, but them remembered we are on the same side. I told my mum to tell them that I was seeing a lawyer and putting together a package that everybody would be happy about. I also told her that I would commence a law suit if she left them with the money and that that would not win any friends. I told her to be nice to them and just never discuss it again with them.

Now I really don't know what to do...

Very mad right now with my mother became involved. Anybody should know that it is not good moral to take money off an old lady, even if she thinks she is doing the right thing by giving it to you... this is beyond a joke.
 
Update: This has now gone beyond a joke:

I just got a call from my mum (who is old and frail). They told her that the commission is $10,000, that all things considered I should pay $5,000, but if we paid cash asap they would 'accept' $3,500. They then drove her to the bank, she withdrew $3,500 and handed them the cash.

The 'saving grace' was that the agent told my mum (after they had the cash in their hands) that they wanted my mum to phone me and get my ok first. My mum then spent the next 25 minutes trying to persuade me to allow them to keep the money. She kept talking about how they put in all this effort driving the people around to look at properties and how they should receive some reward for that. I got mad at my mum at one point, but them remembered we are on the same side. I told my mum to tell them that I was seeing a lawyer and putting together a package that everybody would be happy about. I also told her that I would commence a law suit if she left them with the money and that that would not win any friends. I told her to be nice to them and just never discuss it again with them.

Now I really don't know what to do...

Very mad right now with my mother became involved. Anybody should know that it is not good moral to take money off an old lady, even if she thinks she is doing the right thing by giving it to you... this is beyond a joke.

Nice case of wine and a thankyou note.

As for the 1.8% "reduced" commission, well they can ask, but I wouldn't even bother responding to that suggestion...

In light of what you have mentioned. Scrap the case of wine and thankyou note.

The wolf has taken off their sheeps disguise. :mad: Avoid them now. I would well and truly move on.
 
I know the agent and I like them a lot.

That still the case? So it was your mother's property? Or yours? How did she become involved. What they have done seems quite illegal to me. Let alone immoral. The shoe is on the other foot now; their reputation will be tarnished and not yours anymore!
 
Cease all verbal communication immediately. You want any claim they are requesting to be in writng.

You also want to start recording a log with the communication to date.

Don't send them wine, don't send them flowers. In fact, send them a bill for your legal counsel.
 
That still the case? So it was your mother's property? Or yours? How did she become involved. What they have done seems quite illegal to me. Let alone immoral. The shoe is on the other foot now; their reputation will be tarnished and not yours anymore!

The property is mine. These are the facts that I can figure out:
1. My mum went into town to make sure everything was ok: she asked them about it. My mum loves to get involved in my business.
2. They then gave my mum the whole spiel including everything I had said, that I did not understand the wording of the management agreement (my lawyer says otherwise), etc. Complete disregard for the privacy act.
3. The also gave her a massive story about how they spent so much effort driving the tenants around to look at other properties (That is not even acting in my interest) and how even though they don't have a written agreement, they should get paid for it.
This is where it gets a bit vague:
4. They told my mum that a normal commission is $10K, but the proper amount I should pay them based on the work done is $5k. They said that if we were to pay them cash asap, they would be kind and accept $3.5k.
5. Again vague here, but my mum panicked thinking the $3.5k offer would only be on the table for a limited time and offered to pay it in order to save me $1.5k. They then drove her to the bank, she withdrew the money, back at the office she handed it over to them.
6. At some point (possibly before going to the bank) they insisted that she had to get my ok first.
7. She phoned me and spent 25 minutes telling me everything the agent had told me on Monday. And how we need to do the right thing.
8. I asked her if she had gotten a receipt. She told me that we would have to pay $5k if we wanted a receipt (her words, I can't say they told her that, but bottom line they had not given her a receipt).
9. I told my mum to tell them, that "I was talking with a lawyer, would put together a package that everybody would be happy with and get back to them" get back her money and also to never discuss this with them again.

The poor agents who drove a potential customer around to properties that were in competition with mine. $3.5k hardly covers their effort. You got to feel sorry for the agent. My mum earns $400 a month......

I don't know what to do here. They have broken so many laws it is not funny:
As a professional business they need to consider 'Unconscionable-conduct' which is: persuasion under a position of power. They don't actually have to ask directly to be guilty of that. The way my mum was talking to me they must have spent an hour telling her about how unprofessional I was, and how I owed them this money (which is plain wrong), then she offered. (My mum used the term "you are just a little boy and you don't understand these things", ahh mothers don't you love them!).
The tax laws: obvious, taking money without a receipt.
Property stock and business act 2002: under the act they are breaking the law by simply asking for money.
Privacy act: my managing agent agreement states they will follow this.
Moral ethics: regardless of what the fine details of the law say, you do not take cash off an old lady!

I don't know what to do. Assuming they gave her the money back: I still want to keep the piece for my mums sake (they really are her friends not mine) but not too much. But it is the end for me. I am unsure of my action, but they have not done themselves any favours and likely lost my generous offer. Not walking in and asking some very hard questions will be very difficult.

If they did not give the money to my mum. Then the police will be informed immediately, as will the local papers, the real estate institute of nsw and the local court... That would be a horrible situation...

Any comments or suggestions?

Cheers -alex
 
I would be going to the office, asking for the money back (assuming your mum was not given it already) and tell them if you leave their office without every cent, you will be going directly to the police station.
 
AlexG, that story is just dreadful. They coerced your mother (who was not the owner) into giving you cash implying that the 'deal' was only available for a period of time, then didnt give a receipt? And that if she wanted one she would have to pay $5000 (possibly). This is wrong on so many levels. Perhaps you could get your mother to read this Forum so that she can see it is not just 'her little boy' who thinks what is happening is wrong, unethical, and illegal?
 
Hi there
obtaining property by deception (this tale) is a criminal offence.
Call the police and the Department of Fair Trading. This sort of thing cannot be tolerated.
thanks
 
I too cannot believe this!!! These people need to be stopped, I suppose they lent your mum a pen to complete the withdrawl slip too...

What a slimy bunch of pr*cks... Spread the word far and wide to all your friends and report them to the Dept of fair trading and Police as suggested.

If you were renting privately and the tenants offered to buy you wouldn't pay someone $10K for giving them your phone number!

You had a management agreement and paid them commision to manage the property. You sold the property privately, simple as that... nothing to do with them.

Pulse
 
My initial response was if your in a small town you have to deal with them so a finders fee would be appropriate. Some where between $1000 and $3000 so that there was continued good will.

After their conduct you have no choice as they have treated you and your mother with no respect. The first thing you should do is make a formal complaint to the real estate board in your state and follow this up with a solicitors letter advising them you are going to initiate legal proceedings against them.

Your also going to have to find somewhere else to invest. They have made it clear through their actions that they will dud you every time you look at a property that they have on their books.

You will need to come up with a figure for lost opportunity and you need to demonstrate that you will never deal with them again. I'd make sure you poison their well of good will by letting as many people know as possible.

If they have done this to you and your mother you can be certain they have done similar things in the past. Your poor mum is going to be feeling terrible and will I'm sure not want you to do this. If you allow this type of behaviour to pass your inviting every shark in that town to have a bite at you.
 
Far out.

My 2c - don't worry about that 'but it's a small town' stuff. There are thousands of small towns in Australia.
 
hi
I think you need to split this problem into two.
one is the issue of the sale and I think ( and I have had a disussion with a real estate about management right that he thought because he was the selling agent he got the management as well
and we had alot more heat discussion then you
and this agent had discussing it in the local park with handy cuffs and now he is one of my closest agents and he knows where I stand and I know where he stands)
the issue with the money your mother has put up for you.
in business we have to make rules or what we will or wont give out.
you have done that with the wine( for me that was wrong but you have done that and you stand by that rule)( oh and by the way the buck stops at my desk so there is no one above me so I make the rules in my group
have to make that clear)
if the other side does not want that
thats fine
they say they want 1.8%
I would say thats ok
I will pay the 1.8% you get me 450k over the price that I want.
because I want a ferrari on my driveway we all would love to say I want this and just get it.
and the chances of you getting the ferrari is the same chance of them getting the 1.8%
ie no chance.
now lets get to the
cash advance
I would send a letter to them in point fashion
one
date the money was given
current date
interest rate
5% per month(current money market rate they can email me and I will tell them the current rate)
date of letter
they have 7 days to return the money with the interest
if not the amount is over the 5k
and that puts this claim into the equity court
and that you will be claiming the return of the money and that if they do not respond within 7 days
you will ask your legal to issue notices
and you will find that that issue has a very big problem for there real estate licence
and in nsw they can't trade on that licence until the equity court case is solved.
because they could be trading insolvent.
and there is only a few groups that fall into this class
I don't know,
not sure if you know
and half of australia would not know
so how would these guys know.
the hardest thing to defend against is the thing you don't know.
throw this in and they will hate you for about 5 mins
the time it take to write the cheque.
and tell your mum that you are a big person and from now on don't pay anythings unless you want them paid.
if she want I have heaps she can pay.
and heres a few 000000000 all she has to do is cut and paste onto the cheque
I think that this agent is taking you for a ride and thats fine for me you need to pull up the bus and say sorry let me off
give me this back and see you on the next trip.
oh and just a bit of advice
and I don't give advice as a rule
this is not the first
the second
or the last time
so just cut your teeth on send this letter and after a while you will have nearly a templet of it.
I hope you well
remember that any problem is only a solution waiting to happen
and a solution helps you to solve the same problem just a little quicker the next time.
(where do I find that on the net)( sorry that's out of my head
but you can use it as long as it
A it makes you better
and B makes the rest of us better.

(if not don't use it)
 
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That is so wrong one very level its not funny. Ask for your money back and if they refuse, talk to your lawyer and then maybe the police.

The fact they drove the people around to look t other houses has absolutely nothing to do with you or your mother owing them any money. If they want to drive people around thats between them and the people.

I have been in business for 20 years and i know that unethical businesses that act like this do so because they know the large majority of the population don't have the balls to stand up to them.

That's how they get away with it. Don't be another one with no balls, don't let them get away with this.

Sounds like this is one for Today Tonight.

By the way, dont leave it. The quicker you ask them for a refund the better.
 
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If the Agent thought that the tenants could or would buy the house, they should have approached you to get a signed listing (authority to sell), and in that document you would have agreed on a commision. Without it, they have no legal claim to any commission.

Now that they have pulled this standover stunt with your Mother, it puts them in a whole new category, and shows just what an incompetent bunch they are.

I would report them to the state licensing authority and have their Real Estate licence reviewed.
 
Update 2 - Tragedy averted

Thanks again for all of the responses. It has all worked out ok (I say ok in the lose sense). I made it very clear to my mother that she was to tell them that I was talking to a Lawyer and would get back to them with a package. She was to get the money back and never discuss this with them again. I was mad and I mean mad, I did not talk to the agent, but they would have heard me or sensed it from my mothers side of the conversation.

I later confirmed that they drove my mother to the bank and she deposited all the money into her account.

I sent the agent an message saying that I was very concerned by what happened with my mother this morning and that he had to call me and explain exactly what happened. They were very apologetic when they phoned...

To their credit, my mum was being pushy and wanted to sort it out that day. They never asked her for money, after their sob story (which they are well guilty of) she basically said that she wanted to sort this out today and would pay them herself the lower amount. I know my mum and she can be very pushy. I confirmed with her that it was her idea and that they were even reluctant. That makes me feel a lot better, but reluctant is not as good as refusing to take money from an old lady.

I cleared up one moral point with the agent: When they contacted me with the message from the tenants, I told them that I was not interested in selling (not for a year at least). They assumed that I had just lied and immediately contacted the tenants. The truth is that I sent the tenants a letter telling them that I was not interested in selling now (possibly in future), and I hoped that they were enjoying living in the place, hoped they were enjoying the newly fixed wood heater (which cost me a fortune) and that they were welcome to rent it long term. They phoned me, expressed that they really liked it and me me an offer. I thought about it and got back to them with a no. It was around this time when they were being driven around by the agent. Later they contacted me directly, said they wanted my property and they wanted it asap, they offered $20k on top. I got a second valuation and realised two things: that it was more than the market value, that it would cover all of my expenses and leave me ahead at that price. The point is I never lied or stole a client right under the agents nose.

Sucks to be me right now I guess...

Cheers! -alex
 
Sucks to be me right now I guess... Cheers! -alex

I don't think so.....

You have done nothing wrong, but the agency has acted unconscionably and possibly illegally, and I reckon you have a good case to make them very nervous.

You have been offered higher than market rate for your house.

You have, in my opinion, held yourself up morally higher than these agents.
I would reckon they would not want to spread anything about you around the town. Maybe let them know that if you hear a whisper against your name, you will tell the whole story.

I think the ball is now in your court.

And I wouldn't bother any more with the champagne :D.
 
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