Thanks TIC...

I have to thank TIC for helping me find this forum! I recently went to a 'seminar' and have been looking at their properties. I noticed they had a statement about Neil Jenman and the proceedings on their site. This intrigued me so I had to search and read about him, the findings have led me here!

Thanks for the info and this forum looks like it will be of great assistance.

TIC have offered to lend us an enormous amount of money to buy a property. We are an older couple and there is no way we could possibly afford to maintain this sort of loan. Our regular bank will lend us half that amount which seems much more reasonable.

I will continue to research the various properties around and the return etc. Just starting out really so any advice about where information may be found is always appreciated.

The power of the web... I love it :)
 
Aussie investors club and The investors Club

Hi all, have just recently had an introductory consultation with the Aussie Investors Club (AIC) and wondering if anyone out there has any experience or knowledge of this club. Is anyone aware if it is in any way associated with the other called The Investors Club (TIC), which i have done a lot of reading about.
Any experience with the AIC would be appreciated thank you.
 
Look like birds of a feather after a skim of their site.

What's an interesting question to me always with 'investor clubs' is would they be so keen to source said properties if they weren't getting compensation from developers. If not then they aren't independent with their advice. Not likely to get a direct answer.. but suggest an established property near 'sourced' property as an alternative and sit back and listen to the response :)

Very legitimate question as to who should be allowed to call themselves a 'club', but that's been well covered on the forums.
 
They target the elderly and ppl with little knowledge. They try and flog you a unit or townhouse which is usually overpriced and in an oversupplied area and take a cut of the profits or commissions. The developments are usually owned by one of their senior members...
 
PIGs (Property Investment Gurus) indeed!!;)

They target the elderly and ppl with little knowledge. They try and flog you a unit or townhouse which is usually overpriced and in an oversupplied area and take a cut of the profits or commissions. The developments are usually owned by one of their senior members...
 
New story about TIC

For those that are interested, it seems like Neil Jenman has just written another interesting article about The Investors Club. http://www.jenman.com.au/news_item.php?id=424

Considering Jenman is currently defending a defamation action that Kevin Young bought against him, I'm sure he would have been very careful about the way he reported the facts of this case. I'm afraid that things aren't looking too good for TIC right now but I'm not surprised.

I think Neil Jenman is right. It's not a club at all, just a very cleverly disguised property marketing machine. Unfortunately many of it's members have been deluded into thinking Kevin Young is some sort of guru. Especially those Branch Managers and Support Members who all take commissions on the sales! An amazing motivator that is eh Kevin?
 
I have to thank TIC for helping me find this forum! I recently went to a 'seminar' and have been looking at their properties. I noticed they had a statement about Neil Jenman and the proceedings on their site. This intrigued me so I had to search and read about him, the findings have led me here!

Thanks for the info and this forum looks like it will be of great assistance.

TIC have offered to lend us an enormous amount of money to buy a property. We are an older couple and there is no way we could possibly afford to maintain this sort of loan. Our regular bank will lend us half that amount which seems much more reasonable.

I will continue to research the various properties around and the return etc. Just starting out really so any advice about where information may be found is always appreciated.

The power of the web... I love it :)

Oh Please. Take my advice and run a mile. Look what happened to this elderly couple who took TIC 's advice. http://www.jenman.com.au/news_item.php?id=424 TIC bait the hooks. If you bite, you only have yourself to blame for whatever happens from there! Good luck with your investing but if you want my advice you could do far better dealing with a company like www.destiny.com.au who don't sell properties so it removes all the conflict of interests that companies like The Investors Club have.

Has anyone stopped to think that TIC are actually acting as buyers agents and sellers agents at the same time? This alone is a conflict of interest and if Kevin Young could get away with it legally, I'm sure he would be charging both the buyer and the seller. If he did, I'm sure the authorities would be down on him like a ton of bricks and he knows it. Instead he charges the developer or seller a commission which ultimately ends up being added to the purchase price. Guess who is really paying the commission folks?
 
For those that are interested, it seems like Neil Jenman has just written another interesting article about The Investors Club. http://www.jenman.com.au/news_item.php?id=424

Considering Jenman is currently defending a defamation action that Kevin Young bought against him, I'm sure he would have been very careful about the way he reported the facts of this case.

You'd think so, wouldn't you.

But the Jenman article refers to the former name of the IC's principal as 'Kevin Sampe'.

A Guardian article refers to a 'Kevin Sampy' http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/jul/05/mortgages.houseprices

As does an older Jenman article http://www.jenman.com.au/news_question.php?id=258

Is it the same guy or not?

One needs be be careful, especially with peoples' names.

But I agree with Ausprop.

Take out the 'club' and the 'support members' and it's just another promoter - like Park Trent et al with chumminess.

Everyone has a right to be in business, and even to market products that many would consider poor value for money or inferior investments.

But people don't have a right to engage in misleading or deceptive conduct, or trying to pass themselves as something they're not.
 
Interesting quote from the Jenman article:

On August 28, 2011, Queensland’s The Sunday Mail ranked Kevin Young and his wife, Kathy, as Number 74 in ‘Queensland’s Top 100 Rich List 2011’. The Young’s personal fortune was reported to be $148 million (up by $76 million since the 2010 Rich List). The Youngs reportedly own more than 200 properties.
 
I went to a meeting of the investors club a long time ago. Didn't end up buying through them, as it didn't seem quite right.

I agree. The term "investors club" is misleading when it is not a club, but a sales structure.

Very sad story from this elderly couple.

Neil Jenman has courage to report them
 
Absolute amateurs. I went to one of their presentations as recommended by a friend and nearly walked out laughing. The support member told me verbatim "we are a non for profit organisation" and gave this pathetic Powerpoint presentation claiming property doubles every 7 years.

One support member got up and showed how much money she had made from property quoting examples she purchased in the 80s but not one example of a property she bought through the club. Anyone who bought property in the 80s made money without thinking about it.
 
Yea Kaos, that reminds me. I think this house my father bought in the 60s in for $30,000 was recently valued at $4.0m or something like that. It seems property does double every 7 years. W00T, if you have 50 years to wait.
 
Doesn't that mean that the bank was an accomplice in this fraud then?

Not really as there is no requirement for a bank to give out the valuation. It is up to the buyer to do their own research - caveat emptor etc.

But there was a lot of fuss about this years ago when people were getting ripped off on the gold coast so a few banks did introduce a policy of telling valuations and getting the client to sign some sort of disclaimer acknowledging they low price and confirming they still wanted to go ahead. ANZ used to do this.
 
In this story
http://www.jenman.com.au/news_item.php?id=424

I wonder how did the bank accept a valuation of 900k on a property worth 450k. Sounds like it was quite an elaborate scheme.

I'll tell you how they allegedly did it and it's rather questionable, although probably not illegal due to the fact that special clauses were buried in the contract to legitimise what they were secretly doing. It was hoped that these clauses would go unrecognised by the lenders and it seems that is exactly what happened.

Allegedly, what happened is TIC arranged with the developer to artificially inflate the sales prices as recorded by the land titles office. It is a very similar scam to that being run by {name deleted} on the Gold Coast in relation to properties on {deleted}. If you watch the latter half of this clip it will explain one of the ways agents achieve this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZK6xdtdFQE

The developer apparently only allowed one valuer to value the development. He was {name deleted} from {name deleted} and of course the reason for this is because he was the only valuer prepared to artificially inflate the prices. (One would have to wonder if he was getting a kick-back from the developer!) Kevin Young now states that {name deleted} is a highly respected valuer. Come on Kevin, I don't think that his valuations were in any way realistic and your researchers should have known this!

Surprisingly, TIC staff and researchers saw no warning flags in this and instead recommended to their members that this was the opportunity of a lifetime. I believe that up to 12 TIC members bought into this development (substantially more than the 6 that Kevin Young claimed were involved in his comments to the AFR.)

So the members were led to believe that their properties were worth hundreds of thousands more than they really were. TIC allegedly worked with the developer and their lawyers to place hidden clauses into the contracts which included a rebate after settlement. This meant that the sale figures were recorded through the land titles office at the grossly inflated amounts which was done (according to TIC staff) 'to keep the developer happy'. Members were advised to keep quiet about this as they didn't want the wrong people to discover what was really going on. They would also have to pay stamp duty on the higher amount to ensure that it went through the land titles office at the figure the developer wanted.

One has to wonder why TIC became involved in this to the extent they did. Clearly the incentive for the developer in all this was so he could continue with stage two of the development and there are already inflated and false sales statistics for him to justify further inflated prices on stage two. You can't tell me that TIC staff couldn't see this! So what was in it for TIC? Well one can only guess!

{specifics deleted}

This is a disastrous TIC story, and one I believe is not isolated. Perhaps it is time the rest of the TIC members who purchased into this mess took the same action as this couple. I think Kevin Young and TIC have a lot to answer for!
 
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Incidentally, the Law Society of NSW put out a warning, a few years ago now, to solicitors not to get involved with stacking the contracts and rebates with the sale of property.
 
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