The Art of Gen X/Y

Exactly. Which is why blanket statements based on your own preconceptions are absolutely useless.

Neither is better. One just better suits someone than the other. I really don't know what is so complex about that.
 
Me, I would like a 3 bed room, 2 car space modern apartment with good views of Sydney Harbour. Why compromise at all? Be close to the amenities and still have the space and quietness of the boonies.
 
Me, I would like a 3 bed room, 2 car space modern apartment with good views of Sydney Harbour. Why compromise at all? Be close to the amenities and still have the space and quietness of the boonies.

The same amenities are available on the suburbs. Cities are no longer 'monocentric'
 
um yeah nah

unless of course you consider say surry hills and say mt druitt (as 2 extreme examples) to have the same amenities
Misleading more than extreme. Greater Sydney is a diverse city, and different areas have different amenities. You can't be close to everything. You pick a spot that's close to what's most important to you and your family. That could possibly be your work place, if you think you're the most important person in the family or you're single. Or it could be a relatively quiet beach like Newport, if you care more for your kids or enjoying the surf yourself. Or it could be your ethnic centre, if you care more about your community and the amenities it offers.

People pay good money to buy near the right schools - private or selective - or near a mosque or temple or a certain church. A house close to the centre of Cabramatta will cost you near on a million because it's close to the amenities certain people want. They don't want to live in Surry Hills. They might not even be able to point to it on a map and probably will never need to. And then there are the families that pay upward of two or three million to live near Knox Grammar or Abbotsleigh. People like to live near bays or rivers or mountains or national parks or paddocks for their horses. They like to live near the factories and warehouses of the west or the government offices in Parramatta.

It really depends what amenities you're talking about. There's a hell of a lot more to Sydney than the CBD. Unless of course you only read the property spruikers from the SMH.
 
But the average /median house price in Cabramatta / Mt. Druitt will never reach that of Wahroonga in the north or Vaucluse in the east. I think that this reflects that the "amenities" or facilities of the north and east are far more popular and hence, commands the premium.
 
But the average /median house price in Cabramatta / Mt. Druitt will never reach that of Wahroonga in the north or Vaucluse in the east. I think that this reflects that the "amenities" or facilities of the north and east are far more popular and hence, commands the premium.

Sometimes it has nothing to do with amenities. Perhaps wealthy people like to live next to other wealthy people. The $5M price tag may have little to do with amenities and more to do with setting a benchmark on who your neighbours are.
 
I don't think it is a neighbours issue. In big modern cities, most of us don't know our neighbours anymore, let alone their net worth. However, established amenities, schools, cafe culture, pub culture, concert halls command premiums in the north and east.
 
I don't think it is a neighbours issue. In big modern cities, most of us don't know our neighbours anymore, let alone their net worth. However, established amenities, schools, cafe culture, pub culture, concert halls command premiums in the north and east.
Cabramatta has an abundance of good cafes, clubs and pubs which people from Cabra would prefer over those in the north or east. Ultimately prices depend on the wages of the people desiring the amenities. That's all. The communities in the north and east are more established. Many of them have been in Australia for generations and have had time to build up significant wealth.

But the upper north shore is not a particularly well located area. It has amenities which have been established by its local community - namely schools and hospitals. The transport links are average - trains good, roads bad. It costs a lot because the community that wants to live there has a lot of money. But over time other ethnic communities in Sydney will most likely build up wealth like the Itialian community in Leichhardt did in recent decades.

People aren't living in Cabramatta because they have no choice. It's their place of choice just like the upper north shore is the place of choice for many generational Australians. Neither place is better or worse, amenities wise, just different.

And there are many such communities around Sydney.
 
Ultimately prices depend on the wages of the people desiring the amenities. That's all. The communities in the north and east are more established. Many of them have been in Australia for generations and have had time to build up significant wealth.
Wealthy people are mostly self made, with only a minority being inheritors of wealth. Most wealth is created by the end user and hence, whether some people's family have been here for generations is irrelevant to their current wealth.

Furthermore prices are not determined by wages. Pricing is purely a reflection of supply and demand.


People aren't living in Cabramatta because they have no choice. It's their place of choice just like the upper north shore is the place of choice for many generational Australians. Neither place is better or worse, amenities wise, just different..

We know that the median wage of Cabramatta residents is lower than the median wage of Vaucluse or Wahroonga residents. Hence, it is not entirely true that residents Cabramatta have full choice of living where they want to as there is a significant financial limitation. We also know that children from wealthier backgrounds have greater initial opportunities.
 
We know that the median wage of Cabramatta residents is lower than the median wage of Vaucluse or Wahroonga residents. Hence, it is not entirely true that residents Cabramatta have full choice of living where they want to as there is a significant financial limitation. We also know that children from wealthier backgrounds have greater initial opportunities.
I never said the people of Cabra could live wherever they want. I said they live in Cabra because that is their choice.

A majority of the older generation were not educated, which limits their ability to earn good wages, but that is certainly changing with the younger generation.

They are also very apt at running businesses - hence the amazing cafe culture of the area. People come from all over Sydney to visit the restaurants (including people from the north shore). It is very difficult to find parking in Cabramatta because of the crowds.

It's never going to compare to Vaucluse, but that's not the point. The point was the amenities, and cabramatta has them. It borders on Chipping Norton lakes with bicycle paths and waterside parklands. It also boarders on Warwick Farm race course. It has packed restaurants and bustling asian style coffee/tea shops. It also has a good transport hub of buses and trains.

People are there because they want to be there. They range from being very wealthy to very poor. But they are all there by choice. There are many more affordable areas.

And it's a same but different story with many other ethnic communities around Sydney. You might think they are the pits, but people are there because that is the place they want to live. Because of the amenities.
 
um yeah nah

unless of course you consider say surry hills and say mt druitt (as 2 extreme examples) to have the same amenities

Perhaps you should give some examples of what "amenities" are available in the CBd that aren't anywhere else - here are a couple:

Shops caffes restaurants pubs clubs parks water schools - all of these things are available outside of the CBD - the only thing missing is work, if you are unfortunate enough to need to work there then I get that but that's about it
 
Exactly. Which is why blanket statements based on your own preconceptions are absolutely useless.

Neither is better. One just better suits someone than the other. I really don't know what is so complex about that.
It isn't complex. I never said it was.

It may be a blanket statement, but doesn't make it any less true.

A few of you younger, single, professional demographic types on this forum might not agree, but you represent a very small % of the overall population.

Anyway, if you can be happy living your whole life in a studio apartment then my hat is off to you.
 
I don't think it is a neighbours issue. In big modern cities, most of us don't know our neighbours anymore, let alone their net worth. However, established amenities, schools, cafe culture, pub culture, concert halls command premiums in the north and east.
People might not know their immediate neighbours per se, but they know of the standard of the neighbours from their friends, colleagues and associates. You would know this first hand being in the medical field - doctors are the head of the list when it comes to "postcode" living - both my wife and I have worked in the medical profession and have seen it first hand.

Sorry China, but it (quality and type of neighbours) definitely is an issue when you hit the higher echelons. Snobbery? Damn right.

Even just in my sphere of folk I know I have seen it a number of times. Nothing wrong with; it's human nature - I'm just saying it is real.

It's understandable though. Why would you choose to live in an area that is less desirable if you have the time to select, and can afford to live in a better one?

Sanj will respond now with "why did you choose Dromana if you reckon it is so skanky?"

Good question. In our case, we had sold our PPoR in Red Hill and wanted to:
a) Purchase our next house outright with cash from the profit of the Red Hill house
b) Loved the Peninsula and wanted to stay down here
c) Our Red Hill house had lovely views of the hills, so we wanted to continue with a view location - preferably a water view
d) We wanted amenities and close to the freeway.
e) House had to be modern and nothing much to spend.

Dromana ticked all those boxes, and there are parts of it which are very, very good despite the bad rap I and others give it. It does have an over-representation of the Falcodore/car wreck in the front yard brigade in my book, but overall it is a decent mix of extremes.

We originally started looking in the "postcode" suburb of Mt. Eliza, but we found to buy the standard of house we wanted, we were going to have to spend another $100k or more on a loan, and then another $100-150k on a reno to drag the place into the 21st century. And the amenities were not that flash for what you were paying for the 70's or 80's tragedy.

It has a couple of very high end school there, and larger blocks in some areas, but other than that it had not a lot to attract us at the time.
 
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BV, I guess you are correct in a generalised way - that a post code's reputation may be sufficient for people to want to move there, over and beyond the availability of amenities.

From the reputation of a certain area, if you can afford it socio-economically, you would wish to move there. If you are in the top 1% in terms of income and/or net worth many would wish to live in eastern and northern parts of Sydney as you know by reputation that your neighbours would be of similar ilk. There are occasional wealthy people in other parts and they are usually there for other reasons: ethnic connections, family ties, etc. We know that Edgecliffe , Vaucluse in Sydney are suburbs wherein the residents have higher incomes and net worth.

I guess that if I were to park an E class mercedes in the front yard of my house in Cabramatta, I would be attracting trouble (theft / starting rumours) where as , in Vaucluse, it would be quite a standard vehicle.

My children would go to school with other children from a similar socio-economic / cultural background, depending on where I live. More importantly, they would socialise with kids of a similar background. Could you imagine the children of a single mum on centre link / living in housing commission attending a sleepover at a 5 mil mansion owned by a barrister? The kids would have no issue but certainly the parents would find it strange. This scenario is unlikely to happen because similar socio-economic groups live together and school together.

So I guess, birds of a feather do flock together, even just for safety reasons.
 
Could you imagine the children of a single mum on centre link / living in housing commission attending a sleepover at a 5 mil mansion owned by a barrister? The kids would have no issue but certainly the parents would find it strange. This scenario is unlikely to happen because similar socio-economic groups live together and school together.

^ Sorry to digress, but I laughed so hard at this. Obviously it's a very true statement when coming from city folk and, as you state, 'unlikely to happen' in Sydney, but this is exactly what happens in my neck of the woods (regional/coastal area). My eldest child recently attended a birthday party at his friend's parent's $3mil+ beachfront mansion - the party was also attended by friends who live in housing commission homes - all, including the parents, get along very well and have socialised together since the kids were toddlers. People in cities seem to live very sheltered lives. Hence, a major reason why I refuse to live in one.
 
^ Sorry to digress, but I laughed so hard at this. Obviously it's a very true statement when coming from city folk and, as you state, 'unlikely to happen' in Sydney, but this is exactly what happens in my neck of the woods (regional/coastal area). My eldest child recently attended a birthday party at his friend's parent's $3mil+ beachfront mansion - the party was also attended by friends who live in housing commission homes - all, including the parents, get along very well and have socialised together since the kids were toddlers. People in cities seem to live very sheltered lives. Hence, a major reason why I refuse to live in one.


I agree with your exception to the rule.

In smaller communities, I guess you have to socialise with someone.

In a smaller town, there may only be half a dozen people with 3mil plus homes and if the kids / parents wish to interact with other humans, there is not that much choice and hence the centrelink recipients and housing commission dwellers would probably have to be let into the mansion.

Hence for this same reason, I would find it hard to live in such small communities.
 
BV, I guess you are correct in a generalised way - that a post code's reputation may be sufficient for people to want to move there, over and beyond the availability of amenities.

From the reputation of a certain area, if you can afford it socio-economically, you would wish to move there. If you are in the top 1% in terms of income and/or net worth many would wish to live in eastern and northern parts of Sydney as you know by reputation that your neighbours would be of similar ilk. There are occasional wealthy people in other parts and they are usually there for other reasons: ethnic connections, family ties, etc. We know that Edgecliffe , Vaucluse in Sydney are suburbs wherein the residents have higher incomes and net worth.

My children would go to school with other children from a similar socio-economic / cultural background, depending on where I live.

We could have sent our boys to (elite school) Churchie, but there is nothing that would have convinced me that would be good move. We know many families with lovely boys who went there (and other elite schools), but we also know several families whose boys will continue the elite snobbery that "can" be bred there, and particularly in those families who believe this school will foster future school tie links. I am very anti that rubbish, and we chose instead a very good school without the "elite" tag. There are very wealthy families at this school, but it is not flaunted, and there are regular families and (I guess) families that will struggle to pay the fees for their kids to go there. It is strong academically, but mainly it is highly regarded due to the strong community and family feel of the school.

More importantly, they would socialise with kids of a similar background. Could you imagine the children of a single mum on centre link / living in housing commission attending a sleepover at a 5 mil mansion owned by a barrister? The kids would have no issue but certainly the parents would find it strange. This scenario is unlikely to happen because similar socio-economic groups live together and school together.

So I guess, birds of a feather do flock together, even just for safety reasons.

We, as parents, couldn't give a fig who our kids socialise with, as long as they are nice kids. Rich or poor doesn't even enter into it.

There are some kids who would not accept a child not in their "class" and I've seen this first hand. One barrister I know who had hit hard times due to divorce, lamented to me that her boys were the only ones in their grades not heading overseas for the holidays. They were happily accepted to parties and sleepovers though. I've seen first hand parents who would not approve of lower "quality" boys being friends with their precious sons, and other parents who have no such snobbiness. It takes all sorts.

I'd suggest China, that being unmarried and without children, you are making assumptions about a LOT of this stuff. Much of it may prove to be absolutely wrong once you do have children and see what those children are like. The attitudes your children will have will come directly from you.
 
We, as parents, couldn't give a fig who our kids socialise with, as long as they are nice kids. Rich or poor doesn't even enter into it.

There are some kids who would not accept a child not in their "class" and I've seen this first hand. One barrister I know who had hit hard times due to divorce, lamented to me that her boys were the only ones in their grades not heading overseas for the holidays. They were happily accepted to parties and sleepovers though. I've seen first hand parents who would not approve of lower "quality" boys being friends with their precious sons, and other parents who have no such snobbiness. It takes all sorts.

I'd suggest China, that being unmarried and without children, you are making assumptions about a LOT of this stuff. Much of it may prove to be absolutely wrong once you do have children and see what those children are like. The attitudes your children will have will come directly from you.


An article from this week's papers suggest that many parents in our population are very concerned as to where their children go to school and hence, whom they mix with.

This article talks about:

1. parents registering their children's name with the elite school on the day of birth (in utero reigstrations not allowed)

2. trying to make extra donations to the school to secure entry for the child

3. paying about 35k a year for fees alone

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...an-girls-experts/story-fnet085v-1226682195444

Whilst I agree with you that many parents say they do not care where their kids go or whom they mix with, there are clearly many that do. I would suggest that there is a socio/economic barrier here. In a school wherein the fees alone cost 35k a year and we have not factored in extra-cirrucular activities - trumpet playing in orchestra, overseas school excursions, uniforms - read an additional 30k per year - you are unlikely to find kids of parents on centrelink or living in housing commission.
 
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