The Bathroom and How

[yadreamin]

Hi
Looking at redoing the 2 bathrooms in PPOR.I need some advice while l am still in the planning stages.

When you pull out all bath ,basins,mirrors and vanitys do you retile the entire room or do you leave untiled areas where the mirror and vanity are going to be?
l am planning on floor to ceiling tiles.
cheers yadreamin

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Hi Yadreamin

I'll be doing the same as you in the near future.
Firstly the bath should be checked into the wall so you can't tile behind it, unless it is freestanding. Just tile around it once installed.

For the vanity and mirror, I'd say it would be easiest to just tile first so you don't have to cut odd shaped tiles around fixtures. You could leave off most tiles that will be hidden behind the mirror and vanity if they are to be permanant.

If your fixtures are definately going to be permanent, I think they would look better hard onto the wall with tiles cut around, but the labour factor is higher.


Regards

Adrian See

 

[Jas]

by the time you fiddle around with cutting tiles and so on, it's far easier to just tile over where the vanity and mirror are going to go.

Jas

 

[NEWGEN]

Hi yadreamin,
I'm in the process of renovating my bathroom at the moment too. My advice would be to tile the whole floor and behind the mirror. You'll be thankful you did this if you ever need to replace the vanity or mirror.

 

[Kristine..]

Yeah but I've been thinking about this:

What about tap holes

What about fixing the vanity to the wall and having to screw through the tiles

What about sealing the edges around mirrors, vanities etc

What about the cost of the cement sheet, tiles, labour, adhesive & grout just for this material to be hidden?

Look at existing bathrooms. I have never seen one tiled first. Tiling is always done last.

Don't forget the BCA now requires flexible grouting at the join of the vertical tiles to the horizontal tiles, at floors, benches, baths etc

Hard grouting will not be passed by the Warranty Insurance inspector if you are renovating to sell the property.

I speak from bitter experience!

Kristine

 

[NEWGEN]

Look at existing bathrooms. I have never seen one tiled first. Tiling is always done last.

That's strange.. I thought it was quite the opposite. I've seen a few houses being built and have noticed myself that the tiling is done before the vanities/shower screens etc are put in. Even with the properties I own and ones that friends and relatives own, from units built in the 50's to modern homes currently being built.. I haven't seen one bathroom with the tiles tiled around the vanity and not covering the whole floor. I'd only think it'd be done if the tiler/owner was lazy/dodgey. Weird

 

[Kristine..]

Newgen

You are in NSW. You are required to have a sloping or dished floor with a floor waste installed.

In Victoria there is no such requirement in fact when I wanted one installed in the children's WCs at the child care centre I was told it was illegal to install a floorwaste outlet pipe in a timber floor.

The new uniform BCA (to the best of my knowledge) still does not require dwellings in Victoria to have floor wastes.

Impervious surfaces requirements differ. As yadreamin is in WA the impervious surfaces requirements may be different again.

The local Council will have the information regarding this application.

Kristine

 

[yadreamin]

Thanks for the interesting feedback.Don,t we just love rules.!
It,s crazy how they differ from state to state.
We do have floor wastes in our bathrooms not sure about the law though.I have seen many bathrooms tiled throughout then the vanity ect installed, l shall look into our laws and maybe try and chat to a few tradies and get their point of view.
Personally l thought it was just a time and cost factor by not tiling the hidden areas.
cheers yadreamin

 

[johnnyb]

We've recently had our PPOR bathroom renovated professionally in QLD. The walls we're completely tiled before the mirror and basin (we chose a wall basin, without a vanity unit around it) we're attached. The mirror was just a plain sheet (ie, no frame), which was stuck on the wall with double sided sticky tape, then sealed around it's edge with some silicone sealant.

 

[Aceyducey]

Kristine,

Also speaking from experience - affixing mirrors, cabinets and towel racks through tiles is a trivial issue nowadays. Many of these items are designed to be affixed this way nowadays anyway - and if not the appropriate expanding screw widgets are available from any hardware store.

Tap holes should be cut first however. A masonry drill bit & some tile clippers are all that is required 99% of the time for this job.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Lplate]

Drains in Wet Areas

If Vic does not permit wastes in the floors of wet areas how do you get on in the case of plumbing accidents: washine machine overflow, toilet overflow etc?

In a wet area you want the whole floor covered with a waterproof membrane and up to one tile high (at least) around the walls. If they don't tile all of the floor, how does the membrane operate? Of course some builders do short cut by installing the vanity and tiling up to it. But think what happens with the membrane (only up to the vanity if you're lucky) or the odd shaped hole when the vanity is replaced.

Flexible joins in tiles (wall & floor, corners) - this is in the Standards, otherwise the joint could fail or tiles crack.

Taps - where taps come through the hole must be filled with silastic around the tap to prevent water going down the wall cavity.

 

[Lplate]

Forgot to mention - we don't tile behind baths and not usually behind vanities (floor is different). Waste of tiles and anyhow you want the tiles to stand proud so that line of flexible sealant makes a neat join to the vanity or bath top surface. Helps stop water leaks behind.

 

[adaran01]

In SA on the renovation I have just completed, thankfully they tiled behind these items, I would have thought it would be far harder to tile around a mirror etc, and as far as cost is concerned, a couple of tiles and some grout, would be far cheaper than the time taken for the tiler to leave blank spaces of an exact size around the place, what if he gets it wrong, or you get it wrong by a centimetre or two.

 

[Aceyducey]

adaran,

I've done it both ways - the trick with tiling around is that you place it first

We have a shaving cabinet that I built into the wall then tiled around.

Though as I said I recommend the tile behind in most cases - this was a specific situation where I could build it into the wall to conserve space.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Bushy]

Yadreamin
If you are going the full hog it would be a good idea to get a presure test on the plumbing if you aren't replacing it. If existing pipes are in solid brick walls they usually used roof nails to hold them in place which corrode. Also check waste pipes - easier to replace floor at this stage than later.

regards Bushy

 

[adaran01]

A tip for drilling through ceramic tiles, instead of using a masonary drill bit, use a glass drill bit (a drill bit used to cut through glass). They go through ceramic tiles like a hot knife through butter.
An comparision, it took at least a minute to drill a 5mm hole through a particular tile with a masonry bit (hammer function did not seem to make alot of difference).
The glass bit took about 15 seconds with no elbow grease at all, and it did not wander all over the tile, so no need to use any tape.

I almost enjoy drilling through tiles now.

 

[keg75]

I'd like to add that heat may become an issue if drilling for a long period the tile gets hot as well as the drill bit - which i understand causes it to go blunt quicker. the tiles may also crack from differential heating. sometimes water on the end of the drill keeps things cool.

Also I found that when a mate and i were putting up his WAP (wireless access point) the hammer function on the drill works a charm, as we found out after about a 2 minutes of non hammer drilling. I would have thought that some interior tiles would suffer from the impact of the hammer drill...mainly by the impact cracking them. maybe someone elses has drilled tiles.

cya keg75

 

[yadreamin]

Ah now the plumbing, now thats another issue.

We have pvc pipes from the basin and shower when the home was built the plumber put the drainage from the basin and shower and bath staight into the floor waste pipe.
Aparently this was done then to help cut plumbing costs by the builder.
So what has happened over time is that a very thick growth of mould comes up the pvc pipe regulary and l have to get a brush to scrub it off'yuk'.there is also a foul odour which is released regulary from the pug holes.

A plumber said this is called [l will spell it how it sounds] PIL-AR-TEES. nothing can be done about it just lots of scrubbing and flushing of the drains.
Maybe one of you can sugest another solution to a very stinky dirty problem.
We have a cement slab floor and don,t fancy digging it up.
Cheers yadreamin
ps l think we will tile all the floor and all the walls except where the vanity will go as l would like it to fit true.

 

[fredo]

Floor waste

This method is still used today
The basin, bath and floor waste run to sewer which is called grey water

If there is a partial blockage the water and or scumb will overflow from the lowest point

You should look ate getting a plumber to clear the waste drains with a small snake It shouldn, t cost that much.

It must be the waste pipe and not the sewer or all fixtures would back up

Where do you live

Regards Fredo

 

[yadreamin]

Fredo
So, if a plumber cleared the waste pipes in both bathrooms you reckon this prooblem would go away?
l know they get hair ect stuck in them as the years go by. we have never had water or scum come back up the pipes to the plug holes and they do seem to drain very quickly.
l live in northern suburbs of Perth.
cheers yadreamin