The great Oz property crash of 2005.

Wow! I think some of the arguments on here are so vicious and personal, not to mention ageist. I won’t be contributing anything else to this discussion!
 
Wow! I think some of the arguments on here are so vicious and personal, not to mention ageist. I won’t be contributing anything else to this discussion!
Really? Did you forget who started it? Did you forget that Whitegoodman's main purpose for being here is to look down upon uneducated property investors who he perceives are far inferior to his intellect and tertiary education? Did you forget that whilst not your main purpose for being here, you were indulging in the same conduct?

tip: Afterall you probably don't know more than seasoned investors no matter how educated you think you are.;)

Bye now.
 
Not sure what there is to look down on... plenty of people here have had equal if not more success when they were young or in fact when they were 21: educationally, career-wise and just financially.

Earning 6 digits today is also not as impressive as doing it when some of us did it when we were young (and I can say a fair few of us did), considering the time value of money (a concept which our economist will be all too familiar with). This is especially true in an environment where asset prices have moved a leg such that the buying power of a $100k salary is substantially less today than it was 5 years ago.

$100k salary discounted at the term deposit rate of 6% pa just equates to a $74k salary 5 years ago. Discounted at say a property growth rate of 10%, your buying power is no different to someone on $62k trying to buy a house in 2006.
 
i'm still learning new things everyday - signed up for carpentry level 2 at chadstone tafe.

I wanted to learn more about building a house and importing building materials - so best to get my hands dirty.

Back in university and work - Can you believe from calculating risk analysis on deriatives and programming IT applications to sniff a network -->to like learning to plaster a wall and trying to build a wooden chair at TAFE in the weekends. It's not easy - that's why i won't discount anybody's profession or education level. make the best of opportunities of what you have.
 
Not sure if Gen Y are the first Generation to think they know it all

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"

Hesiod, 8th century BC
 
Not sure if Gen Y are the first Generation to think they know it all

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"

Hesiod, 8th century BC

Well Said bigtone. My culture teaches me to respect my elders too. i am reasonably young but honestly there is no intention to be arrogant or belittle anyone or any suburb.

For - me i don't claim to know it all - eventhough i spend time really researching the suburbs i invest in. Everyone has their own approach to things. I agree a macro approach is very applicable to funds and for investors who has a wide diversification of assets.

I however adopt a very unorthodox approch to investing due to personal circumstances when i started. i always think of the exit strategy

Some of my posts maybe would seem as if i target only suburbs where there are are high net individuals. Yes and no - but before i buy or invest - i do spend time going to the suburb, going to the restaurants, observing inspections studying demographics. It is the buyer behaviour and renters behaviour i am interested to know about. I adopt a more micro approach. If you don't how do you do this and how would you know your target market in the event that you are forced to make a sale?

Say for example in point cook, what kind of buyers buy there as opposed to buyers who buy in tarneit? What kind of houses do they prefer? What kind of finishes do they like? Culturally - indonesian buyers prefer a grand facade as opposed to having other features. What kind of restaurants and food do people eat there? Why makes someone buy there? as opposed to other areas. In certain cultures - when you get married - you are supposed to have a house not an apartment.

In an apartment building - same only 1 block apart - nothing that special yet one with all buidling facilities and size being equal the average apartment in one building has 50K-80K more for an apartment in the next. Is it due being they had a very high income people living there? yes - it is unfortunate and tragic but rich people like to know they are living among the rich.

South melbourne apartment (across from st kilda road) - i got data from owners corp for all the buildings which tells me how many people actually register to have dogs allowed. it is a significant number as many people like to walk the dogs in the botanical gardens. How do i leverage this knowledge to property investing? renovate with a pet friendly options? also many older people like to live there being it is quiet and they normally prefer ground floor.

Narren warren (somewhere) - actually, do you know how an agent got someone to pay 2.2 millino for a 2.5 hectare of land with the most ugly house ever to a business PR buyer when it was only valued at 900K max a couple months earlier? after i had a look at the land, i made a joke - this kind of place would be applicable to someone who liked horses? So fair enought the agent marketed in china and advertised in a polo club or horse breeding clubs. True enough - someone who wanted to have a holiday house and bought it coz he intended to have a horse.

I actually spend a considerable amount of time studying chinese millionaires on the red luxury websites and other sources - what features do they look for in house? What brands do they like? Their no.1 choice in business/1st class airlines is "china airlines". coz knowing chinese - they want to feel comfortable to speak in their own language, and not be put on the spot especially for someone of a high net worth.. How does that translate to the success of asian real estate agents here in melbourne? If you analyzed properly there were so many parent-student buyers with FIRB opened during inspections and auctions in inner city melbourne last year. Now the higher end properties are being sold - due to the fact many home owners in china can't have a 2nd home - so you see freshwater place, eureka all selling due to the influx of business PRs compared to other lower price units (parent-student buyers) last year.

I go to the auctions - i observe and talk to agents. How did i sell a 1st level apartment with 2 carparks below it as the highest 2 bedroom in the whole building with garbage bins right outside and no double glazing with a tram line 150 meters away? Was it luck ? i had to understand my target market - using principles of feng shui by having a report done and renovating based on demographic tastes. A lot of my Time is spend in borders carlton going through Interior design magazines as well 20 subsrciption to investor an design magazines.

Many of my friends ask me - why do you pay so much to fly with business class all the time? I never paid business class - it was all points - i made deals with a developer and agent to use my AMEX paying my deposits and during the GFC airlines were cutting points 50% off for frequent flyer - i just claimed all the tickets. I sometimes cancel my credit card and apply for one when i see a great bonus points offer - when i sell my apartment - i sell with furniture included so during boxing day sale - i buy from myers etc and get all the points coming in. It all adds up. Virgin credit card - buy 1 get 1 free ticket - just got that and will on monday buy a ticket and get one free.

When i travel - i saw bifold doors being sold at significantly lower prices 300% cheaper overseas for something that was sold here. How do i leverage that and use it to my advantage? import the door.

when i started splitting apartments from 2 to 3 bedrooms - many people thought i was crazy - but hey you never try if you never know. Innovation is whats spurs you to grow further.

I'm not trying to boast or say i am superior to others - i may have come off on that on my other posts but i'm really just trying to think outside the square due to my circumstances in the past which has forced me think that way. I do a lot of reflection in life - and i understand the concept of karma and how it affects others and doing things the right way. I may have made 30K in 1 day when the japanese tsunami hit using a CFD trade but i donated all of it to charity as i believe in making money the right way. I have my own principles and grounding and if i were to take advantage of situations on the misfortunes of others - it doesn't go well with me.

I also won't comment on a suburb in queensland or say reservoir in melbourne when i have no knowledge about it. For suburbs that i do - my micro approach to things may have offended people - which they really have gotten me wrong.
 
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I didn't mean you were looking down on people - I was talking about whitewhatever.

By the way, the splitting 2 bedrooms into 3 was in a magazine the other day - that wasn't you was it?

By the way, interesting read (your post).
 
I didn't mean you were looking down on people - I was talking about whitewhatever.

By the way, the splitting 2 bedrooms into 3 was in a magazine the other day - that wasn't you was it?

Nah man wasn't indicating you - you got me wrong - was another post where someone said i only targeted high net worth surburbs and was belittling other suburbs (e.g. frank_ _ _)

all good man.
 
I agree a macro approach is very applicable to funds and for investors who has a wide diversification of assets.

Interesting that you accept that individual approaches to investing are valid. it is not always accepted here.

I use a macro approach to investing even though I have a narrow range of investment classes. This is what you would expect because my (personal) view of the macro scene dictates where I commit my funds. For many years I have been investing in resources and reducing my exposure to property. This is not because I say property will fall 40%, but I don't believe it will continue to increase at above the interest rate and I invest for cap gains, not losses or stagnation.

If my understanding is right this resource bull run will outlast me and I may never need to change tack. Remember I'm too old to die young. :D
 
Interesting that you accept that individual approaches to investing are valid. it is not always accepted here.

I use a macro approach to investing even though I have a narrow range of investment classes. This is what you would expect because my (personal) view of the macro scene dictates where I commit my funds. For many years I have been investing in resources and reducing my exposure to property. This is not because I say property will fall 40%, but I don't believe it will continue to increase at above the interest rate and I invest for cap gains, not losses or stagnation.

If my understanding is right this resource bull run will outlast me and I may never need to change tack. Remember I'm too old to die young. :D

Well said sunfish, That is true- i do however use a macro approach to share investing and trading.

As for property - i believe that certain suburbs will outpeform over others. i also invest in property for capital growth and capital gain which i force through renovation as oppose to investing by buying and waiting for property to rise through macro factors. Actually i more interested in innovation and ideas.
 
Not sure if Gen Y are the first Generation to think they know it all
Not the first as they/we all do it/did it. But there's a lot of talk that this generation does it waaaaay more than any previous generation. Even the top end of Gen Y (25+) weren't as self absorbed as today's lot.

When I was a kid the standard for my parent's generation was to get a job and stay with a company for decades. When i was an adult this was changing. 10 years ago people did 2-3 years at each company and moved on. This is quite normal as employers treat incumbents for granted. The only way to get fair pay rises and fast track your career is to change roles every few years.

This generation: A typical resume reads 6 months here, 3 months there, 9 months somewhere else. These peole front up for senior roles because in their eyes they have the required experience.

This is just one example of our young generation not understanding that no matter how fast technology changes the world, experience and hard work are still the most vital attributes.

And our intellectually superior buddy whitegoodman has demonstrated my point very clearly on this thread. Thinks he's hard done by because he can't afford his own house at 22.
 
Not the first as they/we all do it/did it. But there's a lot of talk that this generation does it waaaaay more than any previous generation. Even the top end of Gen Y (25+) weren't as self absorbed as today's lot.

When I was a kid the standard for my parent's generation was to get a job and stay with a company for decades. When i was an adult this was changing. 10 years ago people did 2-3 years at each company and moved on. This is quite normal as employers treat incumbents for granted. The only way to get fair pay rises and fast track your career is to change roles every few years.

This generation: A typical resume reads 6 months here, 3 months there, 9 months somewhere else. These peole front up for senior roles because in their eyes they have the required experience.

This is just one example of our young generation not understanding that no matter how fast technology changes the world, experience and hard work are still the most vital attributes.

Good post. Couldn't agree more. I am Gen Y myself and see many of my friends changing jobs often. In one instance it is necessary to acquire a broader experience base and relevance. But changing jobs every 6 - 9 months is counter productive in my view.

As for property affordability, I believe Gen Ys are having a much more difficult time than previous generations. I am not saying they deserve the right to own a property or they should whine about it - but this is just a fact. Things are more expensive and income is not catching up.

The notion that gen Y can still afford property - it is just a matter of lifesytle choices and where they purchase holds true. But it does not negate that property has increased a lot faster than income. Furthere there is a limit to how far one can live before it is not feasible.

I dont think a crash is coming, as supply demand does not suggest so.
 
Not the first as they/we all do it/did it. But there's a lot of talk that this generation does it waaaaay more than any previous generation. Even the top end of Gen Y (25+) weren't as self absorbed as today's lot.

.

Hi Felixter,

I was just wondering what experience you have with the young Gen Y's. I've read the newspaper articles about how self obsessed they are aswell, but the ones I deal with seem to have their head screwed on pretty well.

They seem more worldly and 'experienced' (For lack of a better word) than I certainly did at their age.
 
Not the first as they/we all do it/did it. But there's a lot of talk that this generation does it waaaaay more than any previous generation. Even the top end of Gen Y (25+) weren't as self absorbed as today's lot.

When I was a kid the standard for my parent's generation was to get a job and stay with a company for decades. When i was an adult this was changing. 10 years ago people did 2-3 years at each company and moved on. This is quite normal as employers treat incumbents for granted. The only way to get fair pay rises and fast track your career is to change roles every few years.

This generation: A typical resume reads 6 months here, 3 months there, 9 months somewhere else. These peole front up for senior roles because in their eyes they have the required experience.

This is just one example of our young generation not understanding that no matter how fast technology changes the world, experience and hard work are still the most vital attributes.

And our intellectually superior buddy whitegoodman has demonstrated my point very clearly on this thread. Thinks he's hard done by because he can't afford his own house at 22.

I largely agree with most of what youve said. There is also now more of a segment of kids/young adults my age that are basically spoilt rotten.

My uni class was 95% upper/lower north shore Sydney private school. Never worked for anything, silver spoon etc, I predict a generation of kids not doing nearly aswell as there parents (not so much a technology related thing), then again on the flip side I think we also have more of the other extreme, hard workers etc, then previous generations. We have way more that think they can go overseas for 5 years effin around and come back to a well paying job.

ive had 3 jobs ever, I have plenty of friends already in double digits (mainly women)

Also I can afford a house, I just think its bad to buy a 1st PPOR atm.
 
I largely agree with most of what youve said. There is also now more of a segment of kids/young adults my age that are basically spoilt rotten.

My uni class was 95% upper/lower north shore Sydney private school. Never worked for anything, silver spoon etc, I predict a generation of kids not doing nearly aswell as there parents (not so much a technology related thing), then again on the flip side I think we also have more of the other extreme, hard workers etc, then previous generations. We have way more that think they can go overseas for 5 years effin around and come back to a well paying job.

ive had 3 jobs ever, I have plenty of friends already in double digits (mainly women)

Also I can afford a house, I just think its bad to buy a 1st PPOR atm.

honestly - when i was young at 21 years old i thought very similar like you too - was spoilt rotten - i spend every single cent from my 1st job on food, clothes and luxury items till i got retrenched. I came from private school as well in mt eliza (melbourne) further off frankston. And it took a period when i was cut off from family support to get my act back today.

i don't disagree - it is very hard for someone just starting out to buy a PPOR - but with your education and intellect - i am sure you will be able to figure out a way where you are able to see that you are able to purchase something. You're making way more than many people at your age.

OK - This is probably a stupid example, if you like a girl, and she seems like she does like you too although you are not 100% sure, will you take a chance or wait 10 years to give it a shot? Life is about taking chances and making calculated decisions. i'm not saying buy a million dollar place but know your limits and if you never roll the dice, you will never know the outcome.
 
i say let the whingers bleat.

then when they turn 30 and realise they were wrong, they can pretend they never had that view in the first place.

the more they bleat, the more of them fail to buy. that leaves more for me and less competition.

then when they have kids and the missus says "i'm sick of renting, let's buy" they can then plug that 'touchy feely nonsense' into their decade old economics calculator and put a price on their marriage's happiness.

all of a sudden, the "sentiment" has some value and the little snots start to understand what "those fools on SS all those years ago" were talking about when they discussed 80% of the population not caring about values, the simple reason they don't want anyone renting the spare room because 'it's just weird' and that the black and white world of economics doesn't apply on planet earth.
 
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