The most important lesson I've learnt in Property investing

1. The most important lesson for me is to actually learn from my (and others) mistakes.

I started investing in my early 20's very aggressively in old (land rich) properties in Melbourne with poor yields.........Ahh! the influence of accountants and negative gearing. Although I didn't know what I didn't know, I had no fear was earning more than enough to cover the shortfall. All are now two or three town house sites and two are actually pre-CGT. There is a strategy for those in a decade or so.

2. Even though you don't know everything, do something.
After the near 20 % interest rates of the late 80's and early 90's, I figured that 105 % lends were not such a good idea at the time. I actually paid down most of my debt diligently and was well and truly positive cash flow.

3. Don't park.
Then I parked and missed the boom (by way of further purchases) from 1998 onwards, despite trivial borrowings at the time (in comparison to overall portfolio value), I was so engrossed in my career, that I became confortable in my lack of debt scenario. Did I get anywhere that way? Well not even a dog gets excited enough to bark at a park car. We all know what dogs do to parked cars. They say that if you find others are *****ing on your dreams, chances are you're parked.

4. When life serves you up a lemon, make lemonade.
Then I saw opportunity everywhere as I was given a gift disguised as a problem in the form of a physical health challenge.....changes your perspective.

5. Reinvent yourself along the way.
Having changed professional path a couple of times since due to health problems, I also saw that I needed to get more actively involved and after a dinner one night with friends I was compelled to take action again. One friend declared outlandish net income requirement to live in his retirement that was actually more than he currently earned and we are both in our forties. When I asked what he was doing to achieve this, he had no plan of action, beyond 9 % super.

6. Learn what not to do from those who are not successful.
Following on from that dinner, I thought how interesting it was that he had audacious requirements and expectations, without a roadmap or plan of action to achieve this. I knew who not to ask for advice.

7.Begin with the end in mind.
I worked out how much we needed to be fully independent and worked out what net worth and yield would be required. I then set about buying more properties. I read more than I had ever done and worked out a strategy that suited us and my capacity to service debt.

8. Be flexible and adopt an abundance mind-set.
Our original plan has now been modified to achieve higher and greater things that can be shared amongst others where money can do good.

9. Enjoy the journey and pay close attention to those who are where you are going. Listen more than you talk and following on from this, be interested (in the other person), not interesting.

10. Think Big. Life is too short to be little.
 
Player, based on your experience, when do you think this credit contraction will end?


Hi Winston,

my crystal ball got blurry in those early 90's and I'm afraid the fog hasn't lifted. :eek:

I had to sell one in those days, to reduce LVR....I had the lender's valuers giving fire sale vals (which did not in any way reflect their true value) and did not at that time have enough of the folding stuff to cash inject.

Hence amongst the lessons learnt, don't have all your loans with one mob. The reason I was X-coll'd at that time was that no bank in the late 80's was giving 105 % lends and I used a broker (who the client paid in those days) to accumulate like I did.

I'm not an economist and understand that there are others here in this great community who are far more informed than me. Having said that, my opinion is that we probably have not seen the worst. I started smelling this last year when trading bull-put spreads and being exposed (by recommendations) to a couple of large trades with Macquarie and its junior cohort (Babcock) and saw them take hammerings commencing August last year.

The slaughter hasn't finished. The big four normal banks here in Aus may be safe by way of capitalisation (so Mr. Rudd and co tell us), however we still don't know what the final wash will be as far as their exposure to debt and the smoke and mirrors of derivatives and their relatives overseas.

The final spin of the rinse cycle will perhaps shed more clarity to this issue.

Right now, as I've posted in some other threads, I'm sitting on my hands. Ca$h is King, whether it's real folding stuff or in an offset. I have no share holdings at present because that suits my temperament right now. Even the last of my SMSF holdings were liquidated (fortunately) due to a well undervalued land purchase a few months ago, that our fund will develop in good time.

There are others who love this market and the opportunities it offers for the real long term buy and holders or the immediate shorting opportunities that it provides. I admit that I do not have the intestinal fortitude (for want of another word that relates to a couple of the male reproductive organs ;)) to do any shorting or options trading until some volatility retreats.

How will all this relate to the credit situation. I feel that banks will be tougher on lending and to not be caught short (young ones please hear this and do what you think suits you) modest LVR's will dictate.

I attended a seminar by Bill Zheng a couple of months ago and had the pleasure to meet that famous South Australian Rob Williams :D there and my biggest take home message was that portfolio LVR's should be 70-75 % and lower if possible. This is coming from a man who has a MB business and some three years ago was promoting loan products that capitalised interest for the first few years of the loan.

Have listened to others also who speak along similar lines, and relfecting on the recent financial happenings, I have no reason to doubt them. My LVR's on available properties to borrow against (excludes my Super Fund properties) are far well below the 70 % level. Our PPOR is also unencumbered and whilst others may disagree to have this equity not playing for me, I feel safer that way. I'm turning 46 soon and (for those who have read my post earlier) have a lower earning capacity due to compromised physical and postural tolerances. My family's financial welfare is a higher priority than going gang-busters at the moment.

I have also mentioned in other threads that my aim from here on in is to improve all that we own by way of developing and adding doors, rather than by purchasing more and more. My bias has always been land content fit for future subdivision and creating soft equity by such strategies.

It is difficult to prognosticate about the Australian property market in a generic sense due to some sub-markets out-performing and others retreating. Suffice to say that things may go sideways for a time longer. Are there opportunities out there? Absolutely. My cheapest purchase of the land I alluded to earlier was at a 40 % discount to comparables in the same area. I saw the opportunity and took swift action.

I think right now it's wise to hasten slowly, the bargains will not vanish and, if you find a bargain and it stacks up and doesn't stretch one's LVR's or servicibility...go for it.

THere's a lot of info there and I don't know if it answered your question Winston. It's how I see things and what I'm doing based on my situation and what I've lived thru and how I see things.

A caveat, all of the above is only my opinion and reflects my situation and investing bias. It is not to be construed as advice to anyone elses particular case.

Have an outstanding day everyone :)
 
This thread interested me from it's very beginning, but I had no answer from within myself, apart from a feeling of it was the lesson from within the person themself.

Just reading another thread and something one of the posters wrote, (Rob Williams in the renting thread)...I realised what I consider to be the greatest lesson, "mindset".

What we have, how we use it and apply it. Develop it. Nuture it. Listen to it.

Very powerful.
 
Risk management: Learn how to recognise risks, where they are lurking, how big they are, and how likely they are to come true. Then manage them.

ohhh....

Then to not break my own rules around risk management :mad:
 
Two most important lessons i have learnt are
1) Do the opposite of other people.
2) Only borrow money when the natural cash yld (before creative tax effect accounting) of the underlying asset approximates the cost of borrowing. And then where possible fix that borrowing for a long as possible.
 
My lessons over my 9 years of property investing is:

1. Cash flow is VERY important.....manage it well in good times....it will reward you in times like NOW! Understand it well as it applies just as much to property as business.

2. Understand the risks and ensure that you put mitigations in - i.e ready access to cash via Offsets/LOC, insurances, alternative income sources, etc.

3. Slow and steady always wins the race.....acquire assets that you are comfortable. What might work for others will not work for you.

4. Take action.....this applied to opportunities as well as impending disaster.

5. Be open minded and flexible....you maybe surprised what you learn from poeple you disagree the most with. Things change over time what work now may not work in the future. Be prepared for change!

Cheers
Sash
 
Invest with logic only, not emotion.

Possibly a good point considering the current S Keen debate.

Its never about what you want to happen, its always about what might happen.
 
Takes quite a bit of experience to do that as it requires conflicting emotions, thoughts, etc. But if it can be done, you cant lose.

True, That's where your first rule comes into play "Invest with logic only, not emotion."
Not easy, like you said, but it is a winning formula!
 
Takes quite a bit of experience to do that as it requires conflicting emotions, thoughts, etc. But if it can be done, you cant lose.

You are right evand. With property the numbers do it for me. I am unemotional except to the point that I may become elated and excitied about a purchase after my DD and the feasability stacks up. I will not go overboard with outbidding another though. Once it surpasses my walk away price.....I walk away...next please.

Emotions however are something I had not mastered in the stock market though by validating "holding on" and not selling (pulling the trigger when the indicators suggested I lock in profits and cut losers) because my gut/intuition thought it could second guess the market.....hahaha. More fool me :p

It has become apparent that I cannot control the voting machine nor the insto's that can turn the opening of a stock overnight by making it gap 5-10 % or greater......I'm getting there though.
 
Generally I think risky ventures are to be left to some other mug.
No matter what all the books say there is only ever going to be so many with high net worth or outstanding success in any field, pick what you are good at and what you like and go for it.
Don`t get involved in property investment for the reasons of wealth alone.
Finally there is not much better feeling than having a windfall with property for the first time, I remember clearly when one of my properties was all of a sudden worth $40,000 more and I had never even saved $1000 ever and I had worked a job I hated for 15 years at that time with nothing to show for it.
It does not seem much now but it was truly like a lotto win at the time and I have had this happen a few times so I am grateful for that.
 
My personal favourite:
GoAnna! said:
Life is short - the ultimate risk is playing it way too safe.
I take a very aggressive approach. Some erroneously think it's because I underestimate the probability of something adverse occurring. But actually, it's because of my perception of the consequences. My goals are to allow hubby to retire (or work by choice) by age 45 (in 6 years), and by age 50, to have enough wealth to enter my next career of "professional philanthropist", travelling the world and contributing to worthwhile development projects. :cool:

To me, there are three possible scenarios:

1) I "play it safe", hubby can't afford to retire by age 45, but we may have modest wealth when he does retire at 60.
2) I take some calculated risks, and we fail, and have to start again. Due to super and what we've learnt, I feel confident we'd still be able to gain modest wealth by no later than age 60, and be no worse off than if we'd taken option 1.
3) I take some calculated risks, and we succeed and achieve substantial wealth.

To me, the difference in outcome between the first two options is minimal; they both fail to achieve my goals. When you also factor in that pursuing the aggressive approach enhances my enjoyment of life in the meanwhile, to me, it's a no-brainer.

Of course you still have to do thorough due diligence and only take those risks where you feel the risk-reward ratio is right. Aggressive <> gambling.

The only thing that's limited in life is TIME. If we lose everything, we can have another go at aggressively accumulating. But if we go option 1, we are certain to lose TIME, which is invaluable. There's always more money out there, but there's not another decade of your life up for grabs.

Back to the less profound stuff:
Cashflow, cashflow, CASHFLOW!!
Yes; you CAN go broke in a profitable deal, if you muck up the cashflow.
GoAnna! said:
Trust yourself. If you've done your homework and you see an opportunity where no-one else does seize it. Don't let the lack of crowd allow you doubt yourself.

Delegate pretty much everything and then manange carefully those you have delegated to.

Just keep going and keep tackling each challenge as you come to it. Persistance and confidence will get you there in the end.
Excellent advice, GoAnna! Did you take these from my life manual? :p
don't skimp on the due diligance to save a few hundred dollars.
I'm not big on being frugal at all, but even if you are, due diligence is NOT a good area in which to exercise it. Investing is replete with possibilities for making "false economies"; beware!
Dazz said:
Turn that TV off. TV sucks the marrow from you.
I'm going to go against the grain here. I love TV. Surely it's the quality of the content, not the medium through which it comes, that's important. If you're talking about "Days Of Our Lives" or soaps, then I'd agree that abstinence or at least moderation are in order. But I've learned a lot from "Property Ladder", "How To Be a Property Developer", "Property Developing Abroad", "Flip That House", and "Flipping Out". :) My indulgence is "Judge Judy" - though even that is educational. If you watch it with your brain engaged, you learn quite a lot about common law, and landlord-tenant issues.
 
Investing in Real Estate (and most other assets) is a marathon, not a sprint.

Those that treat it as a sprint will run out of puff after the first few hills show up.
Sure some will make it, but the majority wont.
They will either choke on cashlow, or be strangled by LVR.
 
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