The Navra Weekend

From: Silver Ghost

Good morning everybody - and what a beautiful morning it is.

All has been revealed and I have seen the future.

I have just had the most enlightening weekend in my short career path to financial independence (18 months - starting from my wake-up call from a seminar and a book or two).

This career path, up until Saturday morning, was utilising property and cash - not share trading because everyone knows that that is a mug's game, it's full of sharks and rip-off artists, the overall returns are minimal, the Big Boys take the cream and leave everybody else the crumbs and by the time you hear of anything juicy, it's too damn late.


If you haven't heard the words of wisdom that drop from the lips of Mr Steve Navra, then do everything in your power to rectify the situation.

By Sunday night, my plan most defintely included shares - and cash and property and cash bonds and a brilliant structure to use one dollar to work for you several times over.

When I say shares, you need to learn about his system. I, like no doubt many of you, have seen share systems before and cringed with embarrassment at what a load of bollox they are and how ridiculously expensive they are, so when I say this system is different, I mean that it's in a league on its own - the risk factor is as near to zero as is humanly possible. And what's more, you get a free Beta version of it to play with.

I won't prattle on, but this Forum is for sharing and that's only what I'm doing (no, I don't work for him, nor do I have any professional connections etc).

So for two of the most jaw-dropping days of your life and a two hour one-on-one session with the great man himself (and free parking and tea and coffee and (a very good) lunch thrown in), the grand total outlay is.... $250 (no, I have not accidentally left off a zero or two).

That's it. Don't say I didn't tell you. Act now - he's closing his client books before the end of the year.

And on top of that, England won.

It's been one helluva weekend.
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Reply: 1
From: Marina .

Thanks Silver Ghost for your feedback.

I have only ever heard positive things about Steve Navras course from the forum members and your post only reinforces that issue.I also recall Mark.L raving on about Steve.

Both hubby and I are booked in for the Melb August weekend course and we cannot wait. I have a feeling it will change our lives. We have got to a certain stage with our property investing,and we feel there is something missing. Ie (Asset rich but cashflow poor so to speak)and still having to work in the rat race!!

After all the posts I have read on this forum about Steve Navras strategy, I think we have found the missing link. Ie. Cashbond Structure,etc.
I am so looking forward to it.
Are there any other forum members going to the Melbourne course?

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Reply: 1.1
From: Igs Kanny

I can say the same thing.

Go see Steve. In Melbourne, Sydney or wherever he may be.
He's one hell of a brain. And the (IP) industry's best kept secret.

Certainly the most useful course I have ever been to. The best diversification argument I've heard. I am certainly converted.

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The Navra Weekend (long response)

Reply: 1.2
From: Nigel W

I was also at the Sydney Navra weekend. Steve "taunted" me (in the nicest possible way) to post my views about his seminar...So for what it's worth:

1) Value for money - Absolutely the best value for money seminar I've been to. Where else can you pick the brains of someone with 20+ years stockbroking experience and a unique approach to property investment for 2 days for only $250?

Not only that, Steve gives a free 2hr consultation after the seminar (which I have yet to attend - so see my further comments). But wait, there's more...(no steak knives) just a very nice lunch on both days - harbour views, and the chance to mingle with a bunch of other property investors and find out what other people are achieving and how. It doesn't get any better for such a paltry fee.

2) Content - Unique and contrarian. Steve's approach to property selection is conceptually similar to mine which is perhaps why I found it appealing (altho I chase more yield and try to kickstart the cap growth through reno I suspect Steve doesn't like to get his hands dirty renovating!).
There is a compelling logic to valuing on yield - I've never really understood any other method as a starting point for winnowing out the likely properties...

There are; however, a number of points upon which I disagree with his approach to property selection. It may be that with his cashbond structure those points of disagreement will be addressed - something he and I will no doubt debate with some vigour! If Steve can demonstrate to me that his method will definitely lead to better results - I'm sold! What I suspect though is that I'll adopt a hybrid approach - but we'll see.

It is always hard to pitch at the right level when giving a seminar - the experience mix of your audience is often quite diverse. Having said that, I think Steve did quite well to meet the audience's needs. I don't think; however, that this is a beginners' seminar.

3) Learning - Through my work I'm involved in some pretty high powered financing and structuring, but I still learned something. Even if it was just the thought that I could use different financial instruments to my advantage.

4) Share trading - this seems to be Steve's real passion. He seems to me to just use property to gear against to invest in the market and for temporary wealth storage! (Which is fair enough - do whatever makes you the most money and is the most fun I say). Having tried (with some success) over a short period to try to do something similar to Steve's share trading system (but in a much more simplistic, haphazard and risky way) I was impressed by the compelling logic of the reactive system he uses. Whether I can get it to replicate the returns his other clients have achieved remains to be seen, but it really seems to make sense on a theoretical basis. No, I won't say anything more about it - except to note that it is contrarian too! ;^)

I had thought the shares vs property debate was dead for all sensible investors, but the media and the financial advisers with vested interests seem to be keeping it alive. One good take home messsage from this seminar would be that there's a place for both in your wealth creation strategy and you will be missing out if you ignore one or the other.

Part of the uniqueness of Steve's approach IMHO is his method of boosting cashflow - which is of course the lifeblood of any business and the main reason most investors hit the servicability wall with their banks...

So to sum up - brilliant value for money. Until I've had the chance to meet further with Steve and consider the use of his methods to my circumstances it would be premature to rave on any more...but I'm feeling optmistic that this guy will help accelerate my wealth building.

Maybe he could help you too?

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The Navra Weekend (long response)

Reply: 1.2.1
From: Tibor Bode

Hi everyone,

I also supposed to attend the seminar, but an urgent Brissy reno job cancelled this, but after the comments, I can't wait until September for the next one in Sydney. It seems based on your comments that it was an absolute top seminar.

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Reply: 2
From: Glenn Mott

The contrarian view certainly seems to have it's merits. Buying a range of each year's dog investment group and holding for 2-3 years would have produced pretty good returns for the last 10 years.

Is there anyone out there diving head first into technology stocks? Any opinions?

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Reply: 2.1
From: Crispin Dobson

Steve - you're a legend. What a fantastic eye opening 2 days! No need to repeat the benefits above. I'm looking forward to our one on one where you are going to tell me I'm already financially independent but I don't know it yet.
And Australia beat the Maories in the real football.
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Reply: 2.1.1
From: Duncan M

> BTW, is there anyone who is interested to know why we
> supposed to have another property BOOM (thats right, not
> "boom", but BOOM) early next year?

I would like to know!

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Reply: 2.1.2
From: Nigel W

On 6/17/02 4:39:00 PM, Mike TheBloodyIdiot wrote:
>I am wondering if any of you
>guys who attended Steve's
>seminar can do me a favour.

Glad to try to...altho I'm sure Steve will do so if he sees your post.

>His Cashbond system is
>brilliant, ingenious and the
>fact that cashbonds are not
>relevant anymore does not
>reflect on Steve's
>intelligence at all.

Not relevant? not sure I follow...

>After I have seen this
>"Hip-Hip-Hurray" thread, I
>revisited Steve's website and
>his "Property Tidal Wave"
>has brought back some painful

I'm the last one to "hip-hip" - but this is the forum for people to express opinions - and people asked - so I told it like I saw it - credit where credit's due - in MY opinion it was an excellent seminar. Views may differ.

>I was a bloody idiot to argue
>with some people that property
>does not move up and down like
>I am not doing it anymore,
>simply because my opponents
>were talking about different
>type of property,
>namely the one which is way
>above the median price for the
>given suburb. This is OK,
>because like one of the
>champions of this forum Dale
>Gatherum-Goss pointed out,
>property is very forgiving,
>and over the time it will cure
>all self-inflicted wounds, no
>matter if it was either
>"cash flow positive" investing
>in "capital cities" with
>negative population growth
>like Canberra, Adelaide,
>Perth, Hobart
>or it was investing in high
>priced property.
>High priced property (for the
>given suburb!) has the same
>systemic flaw as a mediocre
>one, namely limited demand.
>Worse still, prices in this
>sector are driven not by
>supply and demand (aka normal
>market forces) but greed,
>fear, and most of all - desire
>to make statement,
>i.e. to impress people you do
>not like. In other words, by
>pure stupidity.

Well we all have to learn our lessons one way or the other. It's unfortunate yours were painful by the sound - but then painful lessons are often best remembered...

I don't agree with you about a lot of this. Systemic flaw? I don't think so. People always need shelter. When times are tough some people will downsize, but they are probably just as likely to stay where they are and cut other discretionary spending than go to all the trouble of moving house. You need to examine the facts. Prices have risen considerably in Canberra over the last 12-18 months - fact. Prices have also risen in a number of other cities. Why that might be is due to a variety of factors acting in concert. I suspect that cheap money and an uncertain stockmarket has a lot to do with it. In so far as you think people buy property at the moment because other people are doing it - I think there's an element of truth in that too. But it really is supply and demand that moves a market - not keeping up with the Joneses.

>When economy or certain sector
>of economy is booming (like
>dot coms) we see whole lot of
>affluent (or effluent?) people
>buy bunches of BMWs, Porches,
>expesnsive property, i.e.
>spend like there is no
>When bubble bursts, expensive
>cars go to second hand
>dealers, office buildings get
>decorated with "For Lease"
>prestigious property goes
>amasingly close in price to
>fibro doghouses.

Sure prices will become more realistic - but the market will even itself out in the end. (If you know of any Sydney harbour properties selling for the same price as fibro doghouses outside dubbo then PLEASE let me know!)

>In short, property well above
>median behaves like shares and
>commercial property combined.

Do you have any research which demonstrates this fact?

>Those who work in Sydney CBD
>perhaps remember one of the
>seminars which was advertised
>by the way of handing out
>leaflets right on the streets.
>I have been to this one (free,
>BTW) in November 2000, and it
>was where I encountered the
>concept of investing in the
>prestigious property for the
>first time.
>In May 2001 I attended another
>one of the kind, and another
>one in September the same
>year. All three were
>"introductory", i.e. were just
>"hard" or "soft" selling
>events for the expensive ones.
>The impression was that they
>were run by the same script,
>and main sticking points were:
>1. "Passion in shares"
>2. Buy low - Sell high
>principle for both property
>and shares
>3. Buy only prestigious
>property in prestigious
>4. Renovations are waste of
>5. Buy our unique software
>system which gives you "buy"
>and "sell" signals when shares
>are oversold or overbought
>6. We have got some kind of
>magic formula that shows the
>right price for the property
>7. Right now markets are crasy
>and you will be grossly
>overpaying for property
>according to our formula if
>you try to find property
>8. But we have got our unique
>sourcing system which will
>allow you to buy right
>property through us
>9. Although you can trade
>shares/options yourself using
>our unique software, you will
>be much better off if you join
>our own managed fund and let
>us do everything for you.
>#3 seems to logicaly flow from
>Steve's website info. Nigel W
>confirmed presence of #1, #4,
>and perhaps some of #6.

Let me clarify here - Yes I said Steve's passion seems to be shares. Having said that I also recall he indicated that 2/3 of the VALUE of his asset base is in property.

Also, I tend to draw a distinction between above median property and prestige property. Maybe its just a matter of semantics but when I think Prestige I think harbour/ocean views - Toorak, Mosman, Vaucluse, Hamilton etc. As I understand it, Steve is advocating say 50K above the median in good suburbs of Sydney - Which puts it about 420-550K I suspect. To me prestige would be in the 700K+ category.

I don't want to sound like Steve's great defender - he's a big boy and doesn't need anyone to speak for him. But I take issue with your interpretation of my post. I didn't say he had a magic formula for anything (in fact it became quite a joke at the seminar that he couldn't predict the future and was vehemently against technical analysis or any form of predictive approach).

Steve may or may not think reno's are a waste of time. I just gather that he doesn't do them himself. We may infer from that all sorts of things. Perhaps he's not much of a handyman. Perhaps he thinks he can make more from trading or working in his business than he can wielding a paintbrush for a few days? who knows? What I do know is that I have had great successes with reno's and will continue to do them. Make your own decision.

As to 9 above. There was no hard or soft sell. I recall Steve saying something along the lines of "Do business with me or don't. Make your own choice. But at least do something!" I think that's sound advice.

>I would be forever grateful if
>those of you who have attended
>(without revealing anything)
>can tell if they spotted any
>other points from that list.

You are skeptical - that's good. You appear to me (and I could be wrong) to be cynical and bitter as well - that's not so good. Life's too short to take that attitude. Critically examine things sure - but don't be so negative that you can't see good things for fear of losing something...

Let's put it this way - the cost of the seminar is not your objection - so if you don't like what you hear in the first half day or so - just do a walkout and save your time.

I've rambled on far too long. As I said, I don't want to be a "seminar champion" for anyone. But equally please don't read into my comments things that aren't there. Perhaps the fault is mine for not being more precise.

Good luck Mike. I hope the self-delusion lifts soon.
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Reply: 2.1.3
From: Steve Navra

Hi Mike,

I felt obliged to personally answer your questions:

1. "Passion in shares"

Yes I am passionate about the stock market - I have been so since I was 16 years old!

2. "Buy low - Sell high principle for both property and shares"

This seems to be the logical approach for the purchase of ANYTHING: your return on investment will always be measured against the gain you achieve. One cannot foretell the future, but the present is in your control. (Good due diligence can allow you to purchase at the best price.)

3. "Buy only prestigious property in prestigious suburbs"

This has everything to do with buying in areas with a predominance of owners. (Which produces better capital growth)

4. "Renovations are waste of time"

I think renovations are a fantastic method for these who have the time to do them.

5. "Buy our unique software system which gives you "buy" and "sell" signals when shares are oversold or overbought"

I provide the software FREE - for educational reasons, so that whoever would devote some time to paper trading, might prove to themselves that there are other valid investment mediums. (Besides property.) I strongly believe in diversification. (I personally have MORE invested in property than shares.)

6. "We have got some kind of magic formula that shows the right price for the property"

No 'Magic formula' - only a very logical and objectively real way of assessing property value based on the yield. This methodology is not secret nor withheld and the formula is freely available on my web site.

7. "Right now markets are crazy and you will be grossly overpaying for property according to our formula if you try to find property yourself"

I encourage clients to do their OWN research and to acquire the properties THEMSELVES. (We will assist clients and in fact source such assets if the client can't afford the time to do their own research - and ONLY if the clients requests us to do so.

8. "But we have got our unique sourcing system which will allow you to buy right property through us"

Same as #7 and there is nothing unique about it - just sound fundamental criteria and a lot of leg work (due diligence) and anyone can do this for themselves.

9. "Although you can trade shares/options yourself using our unique software, you will be much better off if you join our own managed fund and let us do everything for you."

Hmmmmmmm, I am definitely NOT into options.
I encourage clients to do all the trading themselves (otherwise there is no educational value in it for them, and this is the best way to learn.)
IF clients elect to place their funds with us (usually because they don't have the time to devote to this task) I still encourage them to run a small portion themselves so as to continue with the learning experience.

I wish to make two further points:

1) So that there is no confusion to the readers of this forum:

Whatever seminars Mike attended in the Sydney CBD (By way of leaflet handouts in the street) were NOT Navra Investment linked.
(All our attendees result from direct referral - we do NOT advertise)

2) It remains everyone's prerogative whether or not to "WASTE" two days of their time attending the courses.

I run these very inexpensive courses (The cost of attendance covers only the cost of the room, equipment hire, teas and lunches and my accommodation expense.) for the sheer love of doing them and of dispensing my form of education.

This appears to be acceptable to the majority as the courses are fully subscribed each time.

I fully accept that one should be wary and discerningly sceptical, I suppose that it is your cynicism that hurts most.

Suggestion for you:

Why not put your money where you mouth is, and I will do the same:

IF you do NOT feel that you have received GREAT value for your time, I will give you a full refund.


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From: Property Investor


I have been waiting to attend your August seminar since early May which is when I booked my seat.
Damn it's hard waiting for August to come!

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Not boom... but BOOM !!! Where?

From: Ross Sondergeld

Hey Duncan,

Subject: RE: The Navra Weekend

>BTW, is there anyone who is interested to know why we
>supposed to have another property BOOM (thats right, not
>"boom", but BOOM) early next year?

Then you siad, "I would like to know!"

I'd also like more detail and reasoning behind the statement.

Areas... why... how... etc...

Ross Sondergeld ~ Buyer Agent

" Imagine buying real estate the easy way...
...with a Buyer Agent on your side!!! "

Buyerside Real Estate Mobile 0412 289 464
Office 9b, 34 Glenferrie Drive Office (07) 5562 1555
East Quay Corporate Park Fax (07) 5562 1248
Robina QLD 4226, Gold Coast

Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
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From: Bob Graeme

Hi Steve
Any chance of coming to Brisbane please????
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From: Neil Iffland

Mmmm I would love to know why Mike thinks cash bonds aren't relevant anymore ?

Yes Steve's seminar was excellent & fantastic value. Also there were lots of interesting & nice people to chat to & listen to. I would highly recommend going to one.
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