The next 10 years: Prediction of the market

and what about my example of an existing melton house for $220k, or a brand new house for $290k

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-vic-melton-117193447?listingType=buy

sure its no toorak, but melton for a first home owners, if I was 20 years younger, id probably buy,

dont ask me how they build and include the land for $238k! :)

Median income in Melton is somewhere around $46k a year.

Without knowing the area I'm assuming you've cherry picked an example in the lower price bracket.

So if you're on the median income in Melton it will cost you over 6 times your annual salary to buy a house in the lower price bracket.

My point exactly.

RC
 
So by your reasoning you should still be able to buy a house for 3 times the salary provided you lower your expectations?

3 times the current salary would only buy the land in an outlying area now.

RC

Nope, wrong again.

You may as well give up now as it's too hard for you to understand supply & demand 101.
 
im going to be a bit controversial, but the general consensus is that good debt is good,

that being said its not for everyone

what if property drops by say 20%, yes its highly unlikely, but do you think all those people in the US were thinking that they would have negative equity???? Im sure the americans were also promoting good debt as a way to get financially ahead.

Sometimes I look at my debt and think, omg, what happens if hte market goes down 20% or I have rotten luck and 30% of my tenants decide to leave and its a tough market to rent??? ie 2 months to find a tenant!

just because the real estate market is fairly safe, it still has its risks, imagine if it was early 90s and market sentiment was good where everyone would be feeling pretty invincible.

if property dropped 20% and you had to sell your properties, and you were in negative equity, your friend who didnt buy a house and kept it in his term deposit might have $300k cash, while the $200k you put in now might be worth $120k

then he would be saying "I told you so"

just throwing in a different viewpoint
All of those things can be managed -

- Select a good floor plan property in a desirable location close to amenities and transport etc.
- Maximise the rent return at purchase and/or through a bit of cosmetic Reno
- maximise tax deductions through depreciation (property built after 1987)
- make sure you have enough surplus finds to keep on decreasing debt through extra loan repayments or offset account, etc.

Just a few of the things you can do.

I have had a few periods of no renancy over the years, but haven't had to sell because of that factor.
 
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-vic-boronia-117077599


This is very, very similar to the first house I ever bought, and in the same suburb, and only a few streets away.

My buy price was $76k from memory, and was bought with my then partner together.

Back then it was considered a bit of an outer suburb, a bit "lower end" but with a train line and the shops weren't too bad....even had a cinema.

Now, the Eastern freeway extends fairly close to it, etc so it is a lot more of a "middle ring" suburb in terms of trael to the CBD and elsewhere.

These are some of the things that escalate the prices much quicker than the average wage increases.

Another area that changed drastically was Oakleigh. I lived there at about aged 10-12, and back then it was a dump of a joint with a railway shunting yard right next to the shops. Now it is the Monash freeway, it still has the train, not far from Southland, etc.

Now, all the period homes have been taken over buy Young Professionals, renoed and now the values are through the roof because a lot more of this demographic want to live here and keep pushing up the prices.

It is not affordable for the FHB anymore because DINKS and YUPS (also with double incomes in many instances) are now the buyers.
 
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Median income in Melton is somewhere around $46k a year.

Without knowing the area I'm assuming you've cherry picked an example in the lower price bracket.

So if you're on the median income in Melton it will cost you over 6 times your annual salary to buy a house in the lower price bracket.

My point exactly.

RC

The example house is not cherry picked, there are lots of houses in the area for that price. Melton, however, is very far from the city (connected to the city via regional trains, not part of the Metro network) and, as you said, incomes in the area are low.

I agree with you regarding affordability. I think house prices in Australia are a joke. It is what is and you just have to work with, whether it be buying a PPOR or an IP.

I do believe that people are sometimes a bit too fussy.

Melton, though far from Melbourne's CBD, only takes between 30-45 minutes by train to get there which is equivalent to some pricier areas on the other side of the city. By car, it takes about the same, but peak hour can be a nightmare (same story anywhere going in or out of the CBD). However, cache is non-existent so people don't want to live there.
 
Prediction for the next 10 years:

Overall: Not Good

Negative Tailwinds:
*Interest rates are at historic lows. There is not much further that interest rates can drop, in 2004 the RBA target rate was 5.25% now it is 2.5% So probability dictates that over the next 10 years there will be a negative overall tailwind from interest rates.

*Budget deficits. In 2004 the federal budget was achieving a cash surplus of around $13 billion. In 2014 the federal budget deficit is around $50 billion. In 2004 Government debt to GDP was around 2%, its now around 10% and rising fast. Unless tough fiscal decisions are made, deficits are expected in the years to come.
And deficits DO MATTER. As the debt to GDP increases, the government will have to tinker with budgets, one way or another. Tax relief in one form or another that was given in the 2000's will become tax burdens over the next 10 years, either through bracket creep, cutting allowances and deductions. The middle class WILL be effected as the top income tax earners do not constitute sufficient numbers.

* Maximum LVR ratios are already high by historical standards. This is not so much a tailwind, but a cessation of a historical positive tailwind

*Productivity for the next 10 years is anticipated to decline relative to the previous 10 years. Productivity is the KEY for long term economic wealth creation.

*The economic lift from the mining boom will reverse into an economic drag as the boom tails off and reverts back to normal.

Positive Tailwinds remaining:
*Positive immigration and demographics

Conclusion:
The positive tailwind will not be sufficient to offset the negative tailwinds.

Returns for property over the next 10 years will not be anywhere like the returns seen over the last 10 years.
 
Good post!

With rates at historical lows, and getting close to basically zero, the question is not if they will rise, but when? Or will they stay stagnant for a while before rising

Also it'll interesting to see whether areas such as west Sydney that have basically boomed will just plateau or drop 10%
 
Good post!

With rates at historical lows, and getting close to basically zero, the question is not if they will rise, but when?

Remember this is a 10 year view point, not just a two or three year viewpoint.
Interest rates could still drop another 25 basis points over the next year or so.
But over 10 years I expect interest rates to gradually climb higher.
 
All the ingredients that created big growth ;

1. LVR's increasing through the introduction of LMI. In the late 80's, LVR's were at 80%. So if you had a 50K deposit, that represented 20% - meaning the bank would give you 200K. That = 250K budget.
When 90% + LMI deals started in the early 90's , your 50K = 10% deposit, which = 500K budget. When 95% + LMI deals became commonplace by mid-late 90's your 50K = 5% deposit, which = $1 Mil budget.

2. Deregulation from the late 80's and into the early 90's = massive drops in rates, increased competition, and banks were allowed to lend much higher ratio's against the capital they were required to hold.

3. Securitisation from the early 90's = plentiful supply of easily available money, coupled with bank product innovation. i.e equity /cash out restrictions being lifted. servicing calcs going fro 3.5 x income to 7-8 x income, + addbacks, neg gearing etc...

4. Decades of incompetent Govt planning ( local, state and federal, and all parties)

5. Favorable tax environment for investors


Essentially, across 7 or 8 years from the early - late 90's, we went from having Situation A - 4 banks who would lend you 3.5 x income and required 20% deposits, and who had limited funds available, to Situation B - dozens of banks ( local and foreign) non bank lenders , mutuals and building societies and credit unions who would lend you any amount you wanted, with little or no deposit required. Coupled with falling rates, a tax system that rewards speculation, aggressive migration and hopelessly incompetent Governments, we had the mother of all booms between 92-2005.

Or put more simply, borrowing capacity doubled and then re-doubled across a 10-15 year period because of points 1,2 and 3 above , created by an oversupply of cheap global money , while point 4 created an undersupply of stock and point 5 created the tax environment to make it all gel together.

Once 1,2 and 3 had been exhausted by the mid noughties, growth slowed dramatically - everywhere. Some places did better than others, but we went from 12% compounding growth to less than half of that, in every capital city after 2004/5 .

And we have only seen two mini booms since. Once after the GFC, when rates were cut aggressively... and the last 9-12 months , when you guessed it, rates hit historical lows.

Both are examples of why borrowing capacity ( interest rates) is now the largest driver of growth. All growth in the last 25 years has coincided with periods of freely available, ultra cheap money. All of it. No exceptions. Without that key ingredient, growth has been much less impressive

So the real question is whether interest rates will keep falling - in which case the evidences suggests further growth, or whether the rate cycle is at its lowest and will start moving back to "normal " settings - in which case growth will be at much lower levels than people might want to believe.

The RBA has a very difficult problem. A high dollar is forcing them to keep rates artificially low- which is creating uncomfortably high prices. They want the dollar down , but if they lower rates any further they will simply drive more property speculation and risk inflation blowing out. You have heard Glen Stevens warn people about investing in Sydney in particular.... and he had the same message after the min boom following the GFC. The RBA is ultra conservative so when they start jawboning these conservatively worded warnings - I think it bodes well to listen up...

I suspect the RBA are praying the US dollar recovers and the Aussie falls to mid 80 cents so they can get rates up 2% or so to take the steam out of the property market , but I also think they realise that's not going to happen any time soon, so they are starting to try and talk down property in an effort to slow it down. Dont be surprised if they consider some form on macro policy intervention such as that which NZ introduced- i.e capping LVR's . They have always maintained they are against it, but their dilemma is very real.... if they cant get rates up because of a stubbornly high dollar, they face a serious housing bubble forming at some point. Macro intervention may be their only solution.

All things considered - it's very hard to make a case for another 10 years of boom times... its much more likely to be 10 years of slow and steady . The good news is that the incompetence of every layer of Govt for decades ensures that undersupply remains a genuine safety net that will provide some insurance against a collapse of any sort. Only a serious recession/unemployment rate will lead to big price falls.
 
Yes very well-presented argument Euro. Not enough credit is given to inept government performance (at all levels) in providing a safety net for Australian property prices. This is something often missed by foreign commentators who continue to preach the bubble mantra in relation to our market.
Would you consider adding a 6th point - the ever increasing labour costs we are subject to in this country ? Would not that also give some price protection for existing buildings ?
 
I would argue that's relative. if wages were half what they are in Australia, borrowing capacity would reflect that, as would prices. But relatively speaking- prices would be just as expensive

I guess at its simplest, what Im saying is that people have the supply v demand argument back to front. It's the supply of CREDIT rather than STOCK that all data tells us is the driver of price growth.

Point in case- when the rest of the world reduced LVR's to 80% and 70% after the GFC because their banks were forced to reduce LVR's in order to be able to secure any form of funding whatsoever - even though those countries mortgage rates were at almost zero - prices plunged.... lack of credit = lack of oil for the engine = engine seizes up.

Australia however, whose banks were heavily regulated by APRA, hadn't embraced sub prime lending and were able to keep offering high LVR's of 90-95% ( in spite of securitisation markets closing , and funding costs blowing out) didnt see prices fall. I think most would agree that had Australian banks curtailed lending to 70 or 80% for 2-3 years like European and US banks did, prices would have plunged...no matter how cheap rates got.

Credit is the lifeblood of property prices. All arguments relating to location, undersupply and what not are secondary to the availability of credit . They matter when its a free for all, but they matter not one iota if credit is not freely available. We don't have any credit supply issues though, so we aren't under any threat of prices plunging any time soon ( recessions aside) But with the RBA reluctant to cut rates any further for fear of creating a bubble, this is why I argue that growth will be quite constrained across the next 10 years (artificially low interest rate episodes aside ) If the RBA defied good sense and does cut rates further in order to try and get the dollar down... all bets may be off - but they run a bubble and inflation risk and the mother of all corrections would come not much later, one would think...

Can we really make an argument for another 20% Sydney growth over the next 12 months, and then another 20% ? That would bring the median price to well over $1 million - and unless the average Sydney couple earns 200-250K , it just doesnt compute
 
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