The risk came true....

Hiya Folks,


Thought I’d share something that happened this week to us.


Everyone who doesn’t agree with our philosophy of property investing, will be glad to know that one of the big bogey risks that normally scares the bejesus out of most investors has come to fruition….as they sometimes do….and so as the ultimate party responsible for paddling our canoe, the problem has landed in our lap.


Received a phone call from a previously unknown chartered accountant on Monday arvo to advise that one of our industrial tenants has gone into voluntary liquidation. OK.


This is a guy who has a fantastic brand name, is a real go-getter, has been in the property for over 18 months and improved the property out of sight to accommodate his business needs.


He’s sunk more than 300K into the property whilst renting it since we gave it over to him, performing the following ;

Cleaned up the rest of the dross still on the block
Extended the height of the roof on one of the sheds from 3.5m up to 6.5m
Fixed the dodgy bros. wonky driveway with a brand new concrete one
Improved security arrangements at the place
Fixed the laydown area at the front with brand new hotmix hardstand
Ripped up the courtyard and concreted the whole area (over 600 sqm)
Painted the entire complex (took 3 men 2 full weeks)
Re-wired the whole complex with 3 phase power
Cleaned out the drains (not easy) and installed new improved drainage where necessary
Installed 2 new office blocks
Replanted the street facade with new shrubery
Constructed a new fuel stand with concrete bund
Paid all of his rent due so far
Paid all of the outgoings on the prop for the year
….and a few other things that I can’t remember


The money in the kitty from the rent payments are enough to carry us through for a further 6 months before we need to chip anything in, so the cashflow side of things is OK.


Seeing as though he was supposedly locked up for 5 years, we had another 3.5 yrs before we could impose a market rent review on him (read jump up heaps).

The wife and I are looking at this as an opportunity to insert some other tenant who can use the infrastructure since improved…..he can’t exactly up and leave with the roads and concrete aprons....at a greatly improved rental rate.

Anyway…..there’s only two things I’m dark about.

1. He didn’t have enough character to call me up and tell me himself, or better still invite me around there and inform me face to face, man to man, in a reasonable manner over a cup of tea. Being ‘advised’ by some stranger who doesn’t really give a rats is p*ssweak IMO. We've got on so well since January last year and he was a real go-getter.
2. I thought this lark was “set and forget”. We’re still wiping these tenant’s noses, even though they are 10 or 20 years older than us….when do they start standing on their own two feet ??


OK, this is your chance to hook in if you so wish and tell me “I told you so”…and “phew, I knew what he was doing was risky….thankfully we didn’t buy that awful stuff”.


Our overall aim is to remove his operation and install someone else ASAP. Dragging stuff out with enquiries and submissions is the last thing we want to happen.


Other than that….it's still happy days…:)
 
why on earth would anyone say what youa re doing is risky, and "hah hah"

sure, it's risky, The whole game is risky. It's just a bigger risk, in return for bigger gain. It's always like that though.
As you said, you can cope for 6 months, and if the property has been improved so much, surely you can get someone in there.


Maybe you need to re-evaluate your seeming lack of faith in residential tenants, and extend it to tenants in general :p
(firmly tongue in cheek)
 
To be honest, personally sitting down for a cuppa with the landlord is possibly the last thing he is concerned about right now.

So what do you do to get him out? Do you take him to some type of tribunal for commercial properties if he doesn't move out within a certain time frame?

If he doesn't move his stuff, can you do it?

If he moves out without doing any damage, then you have done well, as long as you can re-rent quickly, which I have no idea about.

I am sure there are lots here who are curious about what steps you take next in these circumstances. Good luck, and hope he moves out quickly so you don't suffer with him.

Wylie
 
I think this is a great example of taking the risk, having the negative scenario happen, BUT also having the safety nets and attitude in place to not only survive it but do even better. There will always be issues with investments, whether commercial property, resi IPs or whatever (I've had break-ins, violent tenants, a tenant who was 'suspected' of doing drugs, and leaks due to dodgy building). The key, and what we can learn from these posts, is developing the mindset and resources to prosper despite (or even because of) the bad times.
Alex
 
Maybe they are in shock, embarassed, financially devastated and havent yet thought about the flow on? They sound like they have been really committed to the business so they are probably reeling from all of it.

One thought, can they claim (or could the liquidators try) to claim the cost of some of the improvements from you?

If Ansett can fold then anything is possible.
 
Mate
Things can go wrong with any investment... Keep looking at all those positives listed & there is a big list. They actually make me want to look into it... I say buy another one:D
Steve
 
No way could/should anyone say "Nah Na Nah". My only comment is not to be too harsh personally.

Going into voluntary liquidation is more honourable than trading insolvent. There must be far bigger problems than your rent so I can understand the impersonal approach he took. Seems he tried hard and must be destroyed personally.

But I'm not suggesting you do anything less than persue your debts with the usual vigour. That's business.
 
""The money in the kitty from the rent payments are enough to carry us through for a further 6 months before we need to chip anything in, so the cashflow side of things is OK.""

you'll survive daz....im sure you'll be smiling big time in a few months....think of the rent increase you'll obtain with the new tenant and increased infrastructure.
 
Hi Daz

Sorry to hear the bad news. Some thought re your comments are embedded.

Hiya Folks,


Thought I’d share something that happened this week to us.


Everyone who doesn’t agree with our philosophy of property investing, will be glad to know that one of the big bogey risks that normally scares the bejesus out of most investors has come to fruition….as they sometimes do….and so as the ultimate party responsible for paddling our canoe, the problem has landed in our lap.

I still see the commercial property strategy as one I will extend further in the future.

Our commercial neighbor, who has an identical unit to ours, rented out to drug smugglers. One day they received a container then the next morning I arrived to find the place swarming with federal police and customs. One of the biggest drug hauls in 2002. The owner had to sell of the remaining undamaged furniture (the furniture contained the drugs) to recover any funds.

Received a phone call from a previously unknown chartered accountant on Monday arvo to advise that one of our industrial tenants has gone into voluntary liquidation. OK.

At least you received a phone call. In my previous business we collected letters of appointment at least one per month. The worst are the ones where an admin is appointed and then they still want to continue operating the business and want further credit extended (be it that the admin guarantees the payment). We were lucky to get 10c in the $ years later.


This is a guy who has a fantastic brand name, is a real go-getter, has been in the property for over 18 months and improved the property out of sight to accommodate his business needs.


He’s sunk more than 300K into the property whilst renting it since we gave it over to him, performing the following ;

Cleaned up the rest of the dross still on the block
Extended the height of the roof on one of the sheds from 3.5m up to 6.5m
Fixed the dodgy bros. wonky driveway with a brand new concrete one
Improved security arrangements at the place
Fixed the laydown area at the front with brand new hotmix hardstand
Ripped up the courtyard and concreted the whole area (over 600 sqm)
Painted the entire complex (took 3 men 2 full weeks)
Re-wired the whole complex with 3 phase power
Cleaned out the drains (not easy) and installed new improved drainage where necessary
Installed 2 new office blocks
Replanted the street facade with new shrubery
Constructed a new fuel stand with concrete bund
Paid all of his rent due so far
Paid all of the outgoings on the prop for the year
….and a few other things that I can’t remember

Maybe the cost of the improvements is why he went out backwards. Just watch out that the admin doesn't try to claw back the advanced outgoings or similarly they try and claim the cost of the improvements. I am sure you won't let them but forewarned is forearmed.;)

A business went into admin in our complex and the admin sold everything that wasn't nailed down. They even sold the aircons which were installed on the roof by the tenant. (never mind about the holes)


The money in the kitty from the rent payments are enough to carry us through for a further 6 months before we need to chip anything in, so the cashflow side of things is OK.


Seeing as though he was supposedly locked up for 5 years, we had another 3.5 yrs before we could impose a market rent review on him (read jump up heaps).

The wife and I are looking at this as an opportunity to insert some other tenant who can use the infrastructure since improved…..he can’t exactly up and leave with the roads and concrete aprons....at a greatly improved rental rate.

Anyway…..there’s only two things I’m dark about.

1. He didn’t have enough character to call me up and tell me himself, or better still invite me around there and inform me face to face, man to man, in a reasonable manner over a cup of tea. Being ‘advised’ by some stranger who doesn’t really give a rats is p*ssweak IMO. We've got on so well since January last year and he was a real go-getter.

In the end he's a customer not a friend. I have heard this at least twice where the business relationship becomes friendly but as soon as financial problems occur they were the last to know.

2. I thought this lark was “set and forget”. We’re still wiping these tenant’s noses, even though they are 10 or 20 years older than us….when do they start standing on their own two feet ??

All part of the learning experience. Upwards and onwards;). You will no doubt look at this in the future as just a little hiccup and it will no doubt become one of your many stories:)


OK, this is your chance to hook in if you so wish and tell me “I told you so”…and “phew, I knew what he was doing was risky….thankfully we didn’t buy that awful stuff”.

With the auction they occupied the site until they had the auction. I don't know whether the owner recouped any rent but there was certainly some extended period of time between them ceasing trading and the final auction.


Our overall aim is to remove his operation and install someone else ASAP. Dragging stuff out with enquiries and submissions is the last thing we want to happen.


Other than that….it's still happy days…:)

There is a silver lining in every cloud.;)

How specific were the improvements that were made? Are they easily promoted as generic?

Cheers
 
Glad you have that buffer, dazz

I'm sure it will work out fine for you:) And......it can happen to any of us!
 
Thanks for sharing the experience Dazzling. I hope you let us know how it pans out becuase I think it woudl be an experience to learn heaps from.

It seems like you have covered the risks well which is what counts when things do turn bad (as they do from time to time).

A tenant I had who went into liquidation left a note on his house saying to call his busines and a note on his business suggesting calling his house. He just skipped town and he never contacted us either directly or indirectly. At least your guy let you know rather than leave you to figure it out.

If you would have liked a cuppa with him maybe give him a call now. Even if you aren't happy with his mode of communication might be the fastest way to find out what his intentions (or the liqudators) are in regards to improvements on the property etc. I would imagine that some-one who poured so much money and energy into their business only to see it go under would be feeling pretty crap right now.
 
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Not all landlords are as nice as you.....my mum's landlord doesn't have the time and day to drop by for a free meal! she only corresponds with him through his solicitors.

Hopefully everything will work out for you though. I am sure it will. :)
 
Thank you everyone for your replies and related stories / experiences. Most of you have either been down this road before or are extremely cluey, cos it appears alot of what you are mentioning is turning out to be the case.

Had a bit of a chat with the Manager of the Administrator. A young lass of 28 or so, who had obviously churned through a few of these. She didn't seem too worried, but then her money isn't at risk.....

Apparently she's been out there 3 times this week and been reasonably impressed with the state of the operation and the state of the books. Supposedly the business has been turning a profit, making a clear 100K last year, but there are, as has been suggested, other things afoot !!!

The two big things looming are ;

1. A big tax bill owed to the ATO, somewhere in the vicinity of 900K...holy smokes.
2. A big interest bill on a loan taken out to buy out his partner.


I'm told that these two things have brought the situation to a head. The ATO was apparently going to step in and close the business down because of the debt on the Tuesday....and hence why he was forced to go into voluntary admin on the Monday. Also, his ex-wife's father owned the other half of the business for 5 or so years, and buying him out just as he moved in to our property gave him 100% control and the ability to run the business as he saw fit....but it burdened him with a big debt, which he is struggling to pay the interest on. (It's secured via loans on working machinery, so I assume the interest rate is a tad higher !!). This step up from half owner to full owner is the thing that got him I suspect. I don't know the sums involved as yet, but am hoping to find out real quick.


In terms of paperwork, I received all of the forms in a double dose this afternoon. Via smail mail at 6pm this evening, and via email at 5:51pm. This turned out to be most fortuitous, as we needed to have them all filled in and signed, and returned to them by 5:00pm COB Friday...today....to be registered !!!! So, they gave me minus 1 hour to fill in the forms and register. Joy !!!


A meeting of registered creditors will be held on Monday morning, so it looks like I won't be one of them. :mad: Nevertheless, I have filled in the forms and faxed them off to the lass with a polite bit of rig language explaining the time predicament. :)


To give you a whiff of the legal stuff, governed by the Corporations Act 2001 ;

Pursuant to section 443B of the Act, we advise that we are not liable for rent or other amounts payable by the Company for the seven (7) days after the administration began.
Pursuant to section 440C of the Act, during the administration of the Company, the Lessors of the Premises are not entitled to take possession of the Premises, while the Premises are used or occupied by, or in the possession of, the Company, except with the Administrators written consent or with the leave of the Court.


Now, not being the ATO, or a secured creditor like a Bank, guess where we come in the queue of things ?? I call it ar$e end Charlie. But if the liquidators are keen enough to rip up the concrete and hotmix hardstand and try and flog it off, they are most welcome to it. I don't think any of that fantastic infrastructure will be taken ( a physical impossibility surely)....but then I wouldn't put anything past an accountant hunting to strip out a dollar or two.


I'm trying to think laterally with all of this, and I quite fancy owning a passive chunk of an industrial rcycling waste management centre, rather than just the dirt it sits upon. Who knows where the possibilities might lead to ??


Thanks again for your comments - they have been comforting. :)
 
Poor guy!

GST does kill small businesses. This guy is going down. At $900k, there's no room for negotiation My mum only owed the ATO $20k and they still took her business. Infact, she owed no one else money and ATO was her only creditor.
 
I'm trying to think laterally with all of this, and I quite fancy owning a passive chunk of an industrial rcycling waste management centre, rather than just the dirt it sits upon. Who knows where the possibilities might lead to ??
Ring these guys. They've got $500M & are looking to expand.
 
Hi Sue,

Why would GST kill small businesses ???

They collect it first then pay it to the government don't they ?

I suppose on a large purchase they have to pay it first and then reclaim it but, $900k paid out before reimbursement ? don't know how that would happen.

Dazzling,

I think I would be getting my own legal/ accounting people involved asap, liquidators twist the rules to suit their own needs first (like most people) and they won't have your interests at heart :(

Also, I would be checking out what my rights are before having to do battle with the Liquidator

Another thing I would do is take lots of photos of my own building, if it is permanently attached to the building it is legally yours isn't it? driveways etc are expensive to replace.
 
Dazzling GoMichael was wondering if you need to go through the eviction process to repossess your building to make it available for the next tenant? He was thinking that your tenant breaching his contract via non payment of rent (which we assume will happen when rent is next due) is a separate issue really to the creditor issue.
 
Great read.
You may find that he had no option of sitting down with a cuppa...
Alot of administrators and receivers take 100% control from the first contact and advise their clients that they are to have no further contact from that minute..
If he has actually filed for bankruptcy (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe he legally isn't allowed to contact you regarding outstanding debt etc.

Cheers
 
Pursuant to section 440C of the Act, during the administration of the Company, the Lessors of the Premises are not entitled to take possession of the Premises, while the Premises are used or occupied by, or in the possession of, the Company, except with the Administrators written consent or with the leave of the Court.

This is exactly the sort of thing I was referring to. Seems like until the admin is finished you can't evict and it appears that the admin doesn't even have to agree to any rent for the time in admin:mad:. At least in our case the business still needed to utilize our services so that explains why they would agree to signing a new agreement and paying it.

As per Macca I would agree that you take need to involve your accountant as you will really be dealing from way back in the ranks.

Regarding the business. You would need to see the P&L etc which is all possible by approaching the admin who should readily cooperate. Similarly the admin would be trying sell the business (maximize the return from assets)as part of the process. In saying this I guess the concept of holding on to the property makes sense because if they were successful in selling the business then the new owner may want to continue occupying the premises.

Another idea that the property may lend itself to is a self storage site. Obviously there would be a bit of redevelopment involved. The self storage association is a good source of info. Last time I looked into it it was about $3k per unit which would rent for $350 pm. The main driver for this type of business is size the larger the more viable.

Cheers
 
Hmmmmm....rotten bass ackwards law. So you have to take a bath on rent while the liquidator plays. makes you wonder where the justice is in that for the landlord.
 
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