Timing it right to beat the property clock. What time is it in your state?

Having looked in Sydney for an IP for the past 3 months - yep - prices are definitely up. Getting frustrated about ever finding our 1st IP, so is it worth buying now at the slightly higher prices or waiting next year to see if the IR increases mean that prices come down a bit?

We bought our PPOR last year, no-one was really looking at that time, so we picked it up for a good price. Unfortunately we didn't have the means to purchase an IP at the same time!
 
so is it worth buying now at the slightly higher prices or waiting next year to see if the IR increases mean that prices come down a bit?

IR increases of 0.25% x 1 or 2 is going to do diddly squat to prices. If anything they make people hurry to 'buy now' so they can qualify for loans on the lower IR.

My personal view is that IRs will need to be up around 8-9% before they will have much effect on prices. The main driver of prices at present is supply & demand. Supply is still restricted (not much building & developers can't get finance) and demand is still high.
 
Nuriootpa

Or as the Queen said to Prince Charles when he told her he was going to Nurioopta - "where the fox hat".

Perhaps the hedgehog took it :rolleyes:

The spelling is actually "Nuriootpa"....I know because I mis-pronounced it once to some Adeladian friends and was promptly corrected.

I've driven through there some years ago on the way to Renmark. Stopped off at a town called Monash...........had a very cool playground :)

* Edit * Link:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?sour...code_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAoQ8gEwAA
 
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The Sydney median is 20% lower in real terms than it was in 2003. Are you saying you believe Sydney is due for another correction, on top on the 20% correction experienced over the past 6 years? If that was true, why was the Sydney market beginning to surge again in 2007 (briefly interrupted by high rates and the threat of a GFC in 2008) and why is it surging again in 2009?

You say property is overpriced? Compared to what? What makes a correction 'due'?

We had relatively high interest rates, and much less stimulus, in 2007. Left to its own checks and balances, property prices were surging then.

If it wasn't for the high rates and threat of global financial crisis in 2008, that surge would have continued uninterrupted.

Now those threats have passed and we're back to business as usual - i.e. prices rising.

We picked up an investment property in Sydney's Western Suburbs in August last year and have already extracted equity out of it, looking forward to the Sydney Market progression
 
I tried to read the news.com.au article but the link was down. Probably didn't miss much anyway, given the dodgy quality of their news articles.

So if you had a choice buying in any Australian capital city - which one would be the best placed to buy in right now?

I'm not tied to any city in particular so I'd like to take advantage of the different cycles each city is at.

The latest API (Nov 09) reckons that Syd, Melb and Brisbane are in a rising market - which would suggest that the declining markets (Adelaide, Hobart) would be worth buying in?
 
The latest API (Nov 09) reckons that Syd, Melb and Brisbane are in a rising market - which would suggest that the declining markets (Adelaide, Hobart) would be worth buying in?

Hello tess, I say HELLO tess, TESS you don't go out with the intention of making a capital gain and buy into an area that is falling in price. :eek::confused:

You buy in a rising market. That way if it continues to rise after you have purchased it, it will be worth more money not less. :rolleyes:

That is, IF you agree with the data published in API mag. ;)
 
Whoops, I should've elaborated on my reasoning a bit further - that Adelaide's market will soon turn based on the ripple effect of the other capital cities moving up.

Thanks propertunity.
 
Whoops, I should've elaborated on my reasoning a bit further - that Adelaide's market will soon turn based on the ripple effect of the other capital cities moving up. Thanks propertunity.
I think I was a bit harsh :) when I posted that. I'd been fighting a valuer's dumb val for half the afternoon.:rolleyes:

Look if you are going to talk about ripples, then Sydney is where the ripple starts (traditionally). But I'm not so sure that a Sydney ripple is going to make it as far as Adelaide.

There are too many "other factors" to be that general.

Adelaide will do what Adelaide will do because of what is happening in Adelaide & surrounds. Adelaide got a bit of growth off the Perth boom. But lets face it, when Perth boomed where do they go to buy in the next capital? Adelaide is the first stop-over really. When Melbourne booms they go to Hobart and Sydney etc.

Of course the regionals also pick up growth from that ripple.
 
most on SS understand the ripple effect, but i think the RBA seems to want to stop any more rises, i sure sounds like it to me, i am usually extreemly bullish on these things, but this RBA stab might scare some folks a bit , and i know its still record lows but people wont see it like that, Thanks to the media,
 
Turn everything on it's head and throw the clock out the window, it's telling you the wrong time. Real estate has had its bubble - the future is commodities. RE in commodity towns may tail along but commodities are the actual dog.

Non commodity towns will get smashed over the coming years as IRs reel in a booming commodities based economy.

my 2c's
 
...Look if you are going to talk about ripples, then Sydney is where the ripple starts (traditionally). But I'm not so sure that a Sydney ripple is going to make it as far as Adelaide.

ITA. Remember the old investing adage:
The trend is your friend

Going where the trend IS instead of trying to be a pioneer is a much less risky strategy. Of course, you don't want to get in at the end of the trend, either (Not much chance of that right now, it seems). Of course, Buffett famously said that he made a fortune getting into the market too late, as he was wise enough to bet on sure things. My money would be on Sydney & Melbourne.
 
To be fair shadow, prices weren't appreciating in the months leading up to the GFC. ( circa 2007)- they'd been pretty flat across most markets in Australia for a good year or so (or three years in Sydney's case). Of course one can always make a case for the odd exception here or there, but overwhelmingly the market was stagnant. Cities everywhere had peaked or were peaking.

I think what we can learn from that is that between 2004-7 in every major centre of Australia, the "oomph" (ie borrowing capacity) to drive further price growth hits its limits. Keep in mind, this plateau occured when banks were still ending 95, 97 and 100LVR, mortgage insurers were less restrictive, lo doc and no doc still existed, and developers could get money to build stock. But there was one difference- rates were higher.
Property is a deeply emotional subject for most Australians. We are almost all hard wired to gear into property, and because of that, we view the acute supply shortage caused by a lack of developer funding and years of inept Govt planning and infrastructure investments, as signs that a boom is coming. It all points to that, I agree, The supply v demand argument is a very powerful one and ordinarily property would experience significant growth because of these factors. But I offer one counter argument;
It cant happen if people cant get the money to fund it. I think we all agree that to buy something, one needs money. Doesnt matter how much equity you have. Thats only part of the solution. You still need the balance of the solution via a loan. I think Australian lenders are pretty much making it clear that they are facing increasing funding costs. They arent going to open up the 95% or 100% LVR loans again in a hurry, and Lo Doc and No Doc are dead or dying. Rates are creeping back up, whether its the RBA or the lenders driving it.
All Im suggesting is that this is the other side of the coin, and it will be a powerful counterbalance to the supply shortage mentioned above. Banks arent going to hand out money as readily as they used to. First Home Buyers will dry up. This "boost" has brought the next 2 years worth of first home buyers forward into a market where there's been almost no new stock added for a few years and its created a mini boom, but as it winds down in early 2010 First Home Buyers will mostly be gone. They banks had significant political reasons to lend to First Home Buyers- they wont have the same incentives to fund investors. Look at how they are treating commercial and small business customers. Look at how they have cut off developers seeking finance to build units or townhouses.

Anyway, I suspect we might see continued stagnant property prices for a few years yet. Not because the environment isnt right for capital growth, but because the banks wont lend as much to investors as they used to. Of course, like anything there will be exceptions, but I think we all have to accept that theres a point where it becomes mathematically impossible for prices to keep growing at 8-10% a year- For example- If median house prices doubled in Sydney by 2020. (11 years from now) like they have historically, the median price (currently just over 600K) would become $1.2 Million. At current interest rates one would need a household income of 220-250K + to service it. According to the ABS, median incomes are around 60K now (120K household), so we would need to see a 100% increase in income over 10 years to support that kind of debt servicing, and thats if rates stayed at current levels. If rates climbed above current levels, he equation gets even tougher. That sort of income increase would be really inflationary. Interest Rates would surge, and then you'd need an income of 300K plus to service the debt. The spiral would just get worse and worse.

On the upside- that should also mean excellent rental yields, because no one will be able to afford to buy their first home if prices hit those levels. I dont have any confidence whatsoever in any state or federal Govts ability to provide an environment for lots of new stock to be built to catch up with the supply v demand imbalance, but I dont think this will mean huge capital gaisn for property- I think it will mean huge rental yields for property investors. That will have tax implications obviously, so I think more of us should be exploring self managed super funds and investing via that mechanism. Tax on cash flow positive property is only 15% in a SMSF, and tax free after pension age.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Turn everything on it's head and throw the clock out the window, it's telling you the wrong time. Real estate has had its bubble - the future is commodities. RE in commodity towns may tail along but commodities are the actual dog.

Non commodity towns will get smashed over the coming years as IRs reel in a booming commodities based economy.

my 2c's

Daylight Saving just verifies that the clocks are at different times around the country (property clock included) :D
 
I am for one is not convinced that Sydney's initial firming on prices will turn into a boom. Also, NSW has the highest unemployment in the country.

There are other places in NSW which offer better returns.

I also feel that Hobart and Adelaide do offer more potential at the moment...why simply because their economies have a lower unemployment rate than NSW.

Anyway...my initial thoughts....
 
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