To Crimsafe or not....

[chindonly]

Can anyone please provide some advice on a good alternative to Crimsafe?

Have had a quote for Crimsafe in the past for just a couple of windows, and it was very expensive.

Have heard there are other alternatives just as safe and secure, but at much reduced prices.

Suggestions and recommendations would be welcome!

 

[neK]

Invisiguard?

 

[Scott No Mates]

Hollow bar window grilles - have the bottom welded shut & insert a loose round steel bar inside, cap the top. If they cut through the outer bar the loose one will keep rotating as they cut and they can't cut through it.

 

[chindonly]

Hollow bar window grilles - have the bottom welded shut & insert a loose round steel bar inside, cap the top. If they cut through the outer bar the loose one will keep rotating as they cut and they can't cut through it.

Kind of ugly with the bars though. We have that in our old PPOR, and I have also worried about escape in a fire.

 

[pinkboy]

Keeps honest thieves out.

pinkboy

 

[spludgey]

I'd never buy crimsafe because of those bloody radio ads alone!

 

[wylie]

We have louvres that mean we can leave our windows open when we go out. We don't like flyscreens, but I'm sure they make them to take screens.

We used Guardian Screens and Shutters. We've replaced the steel bars we used to have for these. They look so much better, control light, control breezes, keep the criminals out of those windows, and are keyed to open if needed. Not cheap, but it depends on how you want them to look, what job they need to (keeping insects or just robbers out).

I've just ordered some more. I love this product.




We've just ordered two more like in the photo to cover a casement window (set of two) and I think I'm paying something like $800(ish) per louvre.

 

[devank]

We used a company called http://www.alsafesecurity.com.au at lot lower cost.

If real thief really want to come in then they WILL come in. This will only stop the opportunity thieves.

We have really heavy west sun at the back. It is very easy for anyone climb up on the water tank and break the window. I wonder if this sort of product can be used to get some protection from the sun as well as little bit security.

 

[moyjos]

Hi Chindonly. I can comment on this because this is what we do . Husband and I have a security screen company.

We do not sell Crimsafe for a number of reasons...
1: it is useless on the coast as it is not 316 grade stainless steel. Now, they will tell you that this doesn't matter, and that theirs is stronger (theirs is 0.9mm wire the 316 is 0.8mm). And that theirs doesn't rust. Technically this is true...BUT what they don't tell you it that is corrodes TERRIBLY without very regular maintenance. I will post a couple of corrosion pics later. We very regularly replace Crimsafe screens for 316.

2: the sheer cost of Crimsafe....someone has to pay for all that advertising. We were approached to be a Crimsafe dealer..they wanted $10k straight up for the license. That probably accounts for why most Crimsafe dealers are a little pushy .


So.....the alternatives.....
Each of the Aluminium suppliers (and there are only a few) has their own system. They ALL pass Australian standards.
We currently use the Darley ( http://www.screenguard.com.au/index.php). & Ullrich systems. (http://www.ullrich.com.au/brochure_pdfs/Ullrich_security_screen.pdf)
We don't use the Invisigard system from Alspec (despite using most of their other product) because again they wanted a license fee and that just passes on more cost that the end customer has to pay for

Get some quotes (Stainless is not cheap it costs a bucket load to buy the material and takes longer to build) ask the guy who quotes to bring a corner sample to show you how the thing goes together, or if you can visit the factory to see one being put together. The ridiculous Crimsafe noting that the "others" are just held in with a piece of plastic is just plain WRONG. Both our systems are held together with wedge that gets hammered in with a pneumatic hammer and cannot be removed. We have had a couple of our wholesale guys order a wrong size and ask to have a door cut down. The boys in the factory just could not get the thing apart. (It became a bit of a "I can do it..you are weak" game for a bit)

A final note....NOTHING will keep out a determined thief. Even a stainless screen still has a 3mm piece of glass sitting next to it. As for fire escape, all screen systems have a "safe escape" product in their lineup. They are expensive but some people like the piece of mind.

 

[Scott No Mates]

Keeps honest thieves out.

pinkboy

Exactly.

I once had a call out to a shop where the perps had gone to the trouble of stealing a 10t truck, dual axles, hiab & winch. Cut the lock on the chain wire gates. Removed a few bricks in the cavity wall to enter the premises. Circumvented the alarms. Tied the winch cable around the safe and pulled it around the internal wall, through the back room and through the wall.

The thieves left the safe face down in the mud as they couldn't work the crane. Id-juts.

needless to say, the repairs were extensive.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

The best form of home security is a dog.

 

[chindonly]

We have louvres that mean we can leave our windows open when we go out. We don't like flyscreens, but I'm sure they make them to take screens.

We used Guardian Screens and Shutters. We've replaced the steel bars we used to have for these. They look so much better, control light, control breezes, keep the criminals out of those windows, and are keyed to open if needed. Not cheap, but it depends on how you want them to look, what job they need to (keeping insects or just robbers out).

I've just ordered some more. I love this product.


We've just ordered two more like in the photo to cover a casement window (set of two) and I think I'm paying something like $800(ish) per louvre.

They look nice Wylie. Cuts down the view a bit though.

 

[boeman]

Did screens and internal shutters/louvres on my folks place.

They smashed their way in via the fixed panel next to the sliding door in the laundry.

If someone wants in bad enough, they are coming in. Best thing you can do is have a safe for sentimental things, and not be home when they come.

Oh and find my iphone app, I located their laptops within 4 hours. Took all my willpower to send the cops there rather than go pay them a friendly visit myself.

 

[wylie]

They look nice Wylie. Cuts down the view a bit though.

Thanks. We love them. The first pic has them almost closed and the second has them open. When they are closed in the daytime, we need a light on, which surprised me when they first went up.

Regarding blocking some view, they certainly are "there" as opposed to having just an open window but when open and at a level angle, they sort of "disappear" (similar to venetians).

We have our bed pushed into the box bay window and just reach up to open and close them to allow light and breezes. I've thought about moving our bed around but cannot bear the thought of having to get out of bed each time I want to let breezes in or block out the light. Does that make me terribly lazy?

 

[wylie]

We do not sell Crimsafe for a number of reasons...
1: it is useless on the coast as it is not 316 grade stainless steel. Now, they will tell you that this doesn't matter, and that theirs is stronger (theirs is 0.9mm wire the 316 is 0.8mm). And that theirs doesn't rust. Technically this is true...BUT what they don't tell you it that is corrodes TERRIBLY without very regular maintenance. I will post a couple of corrosion pics later. We very regularly replace Crimsafe screens for 316.

2: the sheer cost of Crimsafe....someone has to pay for all that advertising. We were approached to be a Crimsafe dealer..they wanted $10k straight up for the license. That probably accounts for why most Crimsafe dealers are a little pushy .

Isn't it interesting how powerful the advertising is for Crimsafe. I've always assumed it is better than any alternatives. Our oldest son had it put on his house (now sold) and possibly would have looked at putting it on the new one once they have renovated.

I'll get him to get quotes from you and show him this post. Do you come out to measure and then come and fit?

 

[chindonly]

Hi Chindonly. I can comment on this because this is what we do . Husband and I have a security screen company.

We do not sell Crimsafe for a number of reasons...
1: it is useless on the coast as it is not 316 grade stainless steel. Now, they will tell you that this doesn't matter, and that theirs is stronger (theirs is 0.9mm wire the 316 is 0.8mm). And that theirs doesn't rust. Technically this is true...BUT what they don't tell you it that is corrodes TERRIBLY without very regular maintenance. I will post a couple of corrosion pics later. We very regularly replace Crimsafe screens for 316.

2: the sheer cost of Crimsafe....someone has to pay for all that advertising. We were approached to be a Crimsafe dealer..they wanted $10k straight up for the license. That probably accounts for why most Crimsafe dealers are a little pushy .


So.....the alternatives.....
Each of the Aluminium suppliers (and there are only a few) has their own system. They ALL pass Australian standards.
We currently use the Darley ( http://www.screenguard.com.au/index.php). & Ullrich systems. (http://www.ullrich.com.au/brochure_pdfs/Ullrich_security_screen.pdf)
We don't use the Invisigard system from Alspec (despite using most of their other product) because again they wanted a license fee and that just passes on more cost that the end customer has to pay for

Get some quotes (Stainless is not cheap it costs a bucket load to buy the material and takes longer to build) ask the guy who quotes to bring a corner sample to show you how the thing goes together, or if you can visit the factory to see one being put together. The ridiculous Crimsafe noting that the "others" are just held in with a piece of plastic is just plain WRONG. Both our systems are held together with wedge that gets hammered in with a pneumatic hammer and cannot be removed. We have had a couple of our wholesale guys order a wrong size and ask to have a door cut down. The boys in the factory just could not get the thing apart. (It became a bit of a "I can do it..you are weak" game for a bit)

A final note....NOTHING will keep out a determined thief. Even a stainless screen still has a 3mm piece of glass sitting next to it. As for fire escape, all screen systems have a "safe escape" product in their lineup. They are expensive but some people like the piece of mind.

Thanks Moyjos - do you do quotes in Brisbane! lol

 

[moyjos]

Thanks Moyjos - do you do quotes in Brisbane! lol

No sorry we can supply you wholesale if you want to come and collect
We have been away from Brisbane too long to know who to even recommend.
PM me with your location and I can ask around our suppliers for some decent fabricators.

 

[wylie]

I'll get him to get quotes from you and show him this post. Do you come out to measure and then come and fit?

No sorry we can supply you wholesale if you want to come and collect
We have been away from Brisbane too long to know who to even recommend.
PM me with your location and I can ask around our suppliers for some decent fabricators.

There is my answer . Do you supply to the companies that would come out to quote, and then fit? I'm guessing this is not a DIY job?

 

[Investig8]

We had crimsafe installed about 8 years ago on all our sliding doors @1200mm openings and selective window points which I identified as weak spots, these were fixed panels.

This was prior to the heavy marketing you see today and based on my background and research of available products.

PROS:
- Excellent product
- Does what they say it will do under the stress test they advertised
- Looks better than anything on the market
- Is a clear deterrent as it suggests you have spent money on your personal security.

CONS:
- Pricey, but how much is you or your families personal security worth
- The fixed panels suck to clean, can't be removed so you can brush and high pressure wash only
- The holes are not as small as fly screens and therefore small bugs such as gnats will get through


I got this product because I was travelling a lot for business at the time and aluminium screen doors are seriously overpriced fly screens.

If your getting these PAY FOR THE TRI LOCK SYSTEM, it's worth it as it secures three points top/middle/bottom on the doors and is well worth the extra coin.

If I was moving to another PPOR or building another PPOR would I get crimsafe again knowing the cost and the product?

YES, no question about it.

On another note, semi related I had a real estate agent try to upsell two homes to me with crimsafe on them versus others, so maybe they pay for themselves in value, I'm sure the insurance and RE agent gurus on here could address this.

 

[perky29]

Hi,
If you are prepared to measure then install yourself - try this company -
seconline.com.au

We used them 6 months ago for a front security door and also a sliding security door. We double checked the measurements and it worked out fine.
Good quality, around $350 each.

David