To have 3 bedroom or 4 bedroom?

Hi all,

I am in the process of designing an extension to my inner west property. The current property is an old Californian Bungalow (probably built in the 1920?s). Let?s say everything in the house is still in its ?original? state.

We have been holding off renovating the place but as the toilet is about to fall apart and the roof of the dining about to come undone, we think it?s time. Once it?s renovated we will move into the property as our PPOR.

We have asked a draftsperson to help us with the design and so far, I am not totally convinced the current plan is right but I can? t tell why it?s not. I am wondering if anyone can give me some honest opinion (good and bad, ugly ) - are all welcomed.

My initial brief to the designer was
1) Knock off the rear dining area and extend approximately another 40sqm of dining/living/kitchen space
2) A new bathroom/laundry
3) Change existing bathroom to an ensuite to the master bedroom.
4) Change from 3 bedroom to a 4 bedroom (very nice to have as we regularly from visitors from overseas who stay at our home)
5) Bring more light into the house as we are nearly touching our neighbour?s walls on the west side of the house.

What I am questioning
a) The toilet is not well place as it seems to encroach into the living area.
b) The dining and living seems to be too small.
c) The rooms are massive (largest is close to 20sqm and the other are 16sqm each)
a. Generally in inner west, a bedroom is only 10sqm.
d) Do I really need 4 bedroom? Should I just stick with 3 bedroom ?
e) Having the entrance on the side, it doesn?t look idea. Given the current opportunity should I relocate it to the front?
f) Am I over complicating things ? Maybe the current design is good enough?

Anyone?s feedback would be much appreciated as I am very green to this process.

Cheers!
DB
 

Attachments

  • Before and After Floorplan design.pdf
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My initial thought is that if you are housing a family (4bedrooms) You will most likely not want your laundry in the kitchen - assuming the (LD) in the kitchen stands for laundry.

Otherwise, you appear not to have one at all which probably won't be very popular either. ;)
 
Ideally have 4 bedrooms but one room could be a 2nd living area eg no built ins, gives flexibility.

Also you have a bathroom opening onto a kitchen, dont think thats legal?

Entrance on side is queen anne style and common
 
Have you considered making 4 the main bedroom and having that bathroom as the ensuite so that you don't have a toilet door that opens straight into the kitchen? That way you can keep the original bathroom in it's same position..Or is it too small?
 
I'm green myself but these are my thoughts:


- I'm guessing the designer has added all the extras on the back as that's the cheapest build option
- the rear wall is probably structural, so cost will go up if you do anything much to it.

Questions:
- if you didn't have a 4th BR what would you do with the guests? how long they typically stay may influence how important a 4th BR
- where's the laundry? If it's on the end of the kitchen, have a good think about noise, I had one in a kitchen once which wasn't as open plan & hated it.
- what is the plan for the sunroom, can end up being wasted space
- how much space do you have behind the current planned addition?

Alternatives:
- take part of bedroom 4 for a bathroom, this would mean you're left with approx 2.7 x 3 which is on the small side but probably OK, particularly if you don't need to worry about built ins. Fireplace might make furnishing tricky (remove it?). Window might be an issue. This would leave whole back section for living / dining / kitchen
- the main bedroom is huge, you could turn part of that into an ensuite & still be left with a room roughly 3.6 x 3.6 which is ample. This would mean the main bathroom could stay where it is & again the whole back section for living / dining / kitchen
- Could you go further back? might not be able to / want to but that would be the simplest way of adding more space.
- Laundry & storage - you have neither other than what if anything is in the bedrooms - you could either take some of BR3, some of the back section or maybe the sunroom
 
I can see why they have done it that way as there is little disturbance to original layout

The bedrooms aren't as large as you think. The 2 cutdown ones are 3 x 4,2 = 12.6 so a good size.

What I have done - and it's drawn for you to understand:

- left the living as living so no need for a
- put new kitchen where kitchen is - saves having to move pipes far for gas etc
and it can interact to living quite well there.
- dining on other side of kitchen
- then put a bedroom and bathroom on the other side. I have chosen that side as they can build windows in for the bathroom etc for ventilation. I feel that the space available for the bathroom would allow a combo bathroom laundry OR you could make a small bathroom and a small laundry in the space.
- doing it this way gives you a passageway to zone both bedrooms and bathroom off.
- use the front room with sun room as guest room / study/ extra lounge room

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zalsfutszph9x2m/Before and After Floorplan design.pdf?dl=0
 
This was the extension i did.
In hindsight i should have went for a wide stacker door or bi-fold doors instead of a 2.4m sliding door with a window next to it.
 

Attachments

  • Untitled1.jpg
    Untitled1.jpg
    41.9 KB · Views: 121
My initial thought is that if you are housing a family (4bedrooms) You will most likely not want your laundry in the kitchen - assuming the (LD) in the kitchen stands for laundry.

Otherwise, you appear not to have one at all which probably won't be very popular either. ;)

Good point Jess!

It's actually in the bathroom and not the kitchen. I didn't spot that on the plans. :) .. The living/kitchen and dining space is such a premium with the current design and having a laundry in the bathroom is probably our only option with the current 4bed layout
 
Ideally have 4 bedrooms but one room could be a 2nd living area eg no built ins, gives flexibility.

Also you have a bathroom opening onto a kitchen, dont think thats legal?

Entrance on side is queen anne style and common

Hi Dave,

Yeah I definitely leaning on creating a flexible bedroom so it can be a combination of entertainment/rumpus/a bedroom .

With the bathroom opening to the kitchen, I am not sure if it's legal but from my perspective I really like it. ideally is to have it in the centre of the house so it's easier to access from all the rooms and away from the living area.
 
Have you considered making 4 the main bedroom and having that bathroom as the ensuite so that you don't have a toilet door that opens straight into the kitchen? That way you can keep the original bathroom in it's same position..Or is it too small?

Hi Ej,

bedroom is actually quite a dark room because the window is directly facing my neighbour's wall (you can almost touch my neighbour's wall if you reach far enough!) and the current bathroom is very small (1.5x 3m).

D
 
I'm green myself but these are my thoughts:


- I'm guessing the designer has added all the extras on the back as that's the cheapest build option
- the rear wall is probably structural, so cost will go up if you do anything much to it.

Questions:
- if you didn't have a 4th BR what would you do with the guests? how long they typically stay may influence how important a 4th BR
- where's the laundry? If it's on the end of the kitchen, have a good think about noise, I had one in a kitchen once which wasn't as open plan & hated it.
- what is the plan for the sunroom, can end up being wasted space
- how much space do you have behind the current planned addition?

Alternatives:
- take part of bedroom 4 for a bathroom, this would mean you're left with approx 2.7 x 3 which is on the small side but probably OK, particularly if you don't need to worry about built ins. Fireplace might make furnishing tricky (remove it?). Window might be an issue. This would leave whole back section for living / dining / kitchen
- the main bedroom is huge, you could turn part of that into an ensuite & still be left with a room roughly 3.6 x 3.6 which is ample. This would mean the main bathroom could stay where it is & again the whole back section for living / dining / kitchen
- Could you go further back? might not be able to / want to but that would be the simplest way of adding more space.
- Laundry & storage - you have neither other than what if anything is in the bedrooms - you could either take some of BR3, some of the back section or maybe the sunroom
Hi Serendip,

Thanks for your feedback. I have answered some of your points below.

- I'm guessing the designer has added all the extras on the back as that's the cheapest build option
- the rear wall is probably structural, so cost will go up if you do anything much to it.

Questions:
- if you didn't have a 4th BR what would you do with the guests? how long they typically stay may influence how important a 4th BR ***I would usually mean one of my kids need to give up his room and sleep on the floor :0) ***
- where's the laundry? If it's on the end of the kitchen, have a good think about noise, I had one in a kitchen once which wasn't as open plan & hated it. ** it's in the bathroom with the current line of thought**
- what is the plan for the sunroom, can end up being wasted space .. ** you are right, the current tenants use it as storage really.

- how much space do you have behind the current planned addition?
* Not sure to be honest .. my guess would be around 45sqm of backyard space..

Alternatives:
- take part of bedroom 4 for a bathroom, this would mean you're left with approx 2.7 x 3 which is on the small side but probably OK, particularly if you don't need to worry about built ins. Fireplace might make furnishing tricky (remove it?). Window might be an issue.
** yeah that sounds like the most sound approach, after hearing from a number of people.

This would leave whole back section for living / dining / kitchen
- the main bedroom is huge, you could turn part of that into an ensuite & still be left with a room roughly 3.6 x 3.6 which is ample. This would mean the main bathroom could stay where it is & again the whole back section for living / dining / kitchen
- Could you go further back? might not be able to / want to but that would be the simplest way of adding more space.
** we are doing a complying development so I will double check the requirements.

- Laundry & storage - you have neither other than what if anything is in the bedrooms - you could either take some of BR3, some of the back section or maybe the sunroom
** Good point! I have limited storage when to look at it, I should definitely add more space. I am starting to really dislike that sunroom because there seems to be no material use of that space.
 
This was the extension i did.
In hindsight i should have went for a wide stacker door or bi-fold doors instead of a 2.4m sliding door with a window next to it.
Hi westminster,

Interesting! Never thought of it that way.

I can't see the pic yet (sorry at work, and dropbox is blocked), but I think I can visualise it.

My question though, would a kitchen in between the living and dining area flow well? I just haven't seen such layout before *abeit my limited experience**

I really like the idea on the right hand side of the house and it does make alot of sense to bring more light to the room. I think placing the bathroom at the mid-section of the house would give good acess to the WC for all bedrooms.

Yeah with converting the sunroom to a bedroom. I thought about that, but i don't want to create a corridor to access that small room - or should i just leave it as is?
 
Hi westminster,

Interesting! Never thought of it that way.

I can't see the pic yet (sorry at work, and dropbox is blocked), but I think I can visualise it.

My question though, would a kitchen in between the living and dining area flow well? I just haven't seen such layout before *abeit my limited experience**

I really like the idea on the right hand side of the house and it does make alot of sense to bring more light to the room. I think placing the bathroom at the mid-section of the house would give good acess to the WC for all bedrooms.

Yeah with converting the sunroom to a bedroom. I thought about that, but i don't want to create a corridor to access that small room - or should i just leave it as is?

I converted it to a picture for you

Yrptvv8.jpg
 
I converted it to a picture for you

Yrptvv8.jpg

Thanks Westminster. Had a look at the design and it's really good. My wife is quite happy with it as well.

The only challenge is the bathroom is now abit small which isn't ideal as I know most families in the area like a bathroom with a tub, and I don't know if a 2.5m x 3.5m is big enough or am i being too paranoid?

Cheers
 
Thanks Westminster. Had a look at the design and it's really good. My wife is quite happy with it as well.

The only challenge is the bathroom is now abit small which isn't ideal as I know most families in the area like a bathroom with a tub, and I don't know if a 2.5m x 3.5m is big enough or am i being too paranoid?

Cheers

Paranoid? yes :)

It would be 2.5 x 2 and yes that is pretty big and should fit a tub no problems. If you have any space issues you could do a shower over the bath but I think you can fit both.

Hop onto one of the online bathroom planners or talk to your architect and see what he thinks.
 
Paranoid? yes :)

It would be 2.5 x 2 and yes that is pretty big and should fit a tub no problems. If you have any space issues you could do a shower over the bath but I think you can fit both.

Hop onto one of the online bathroom planners or talk to your architect and see what he thinks.

Thanks alot. I will have a dig around and see how it goes.

Will share the updated floorplan once I have another chat with my draftsperson

:)
 
How about considering a different shape for the extension?

A very radical approach was taken by Andrew Marynard with the tower house, which was a collection of smaller buildings. You might not have space in your garden for this.

http://www.maynardarchitects.com/Site/houses_1/Pages/Tower.html

On a more practical note, here are a few thoughts:
  • If the roof pitch isn't too shallow you could leave the trusses exposed, and put a bedroom up on a mezzanine. If you relocated the bathroom to what is now the living room, and otherwise kept the plans roughly as Westminster has drawn them, there'd be a huge, open space facing onto the garden.
  • If I was doing Westminster's revised plan then I'd be inclined to keep the wall of bedroom 3 where it is (less building work and disruption). I would also suggest flipping the locations of bedrooms 3 and 4 and the laundry, so they're along the back wall. This means relocating gas pipes, but it'll make routing water easier as it looks as though the pipes are already run down the back of the house. Plus the living spaces would get more natural light, and open onto the garden.
  • The problem in a lot of the house is light. If you put an internal courtyard in where the kitchen and dining room are then there'd be more windows.
 
How about considering a different shape for the extension?

A very radical approach was taken by Andrew Marynard with the tower house, which was a collection of smaller buildings. You might not have space in your garden for this.

http://www.maynardarchitects.com/Site/houses_1/Pages/Tower.html

On a more practical note, here are a few thoughts:
  • If the roof pitch isn't too shallow you could leave the trusses exposed, and put a bedroom up on a mezzanine. If you relocated the bathroom to what is now the living room, and otherwise kept the plans roughly as Westminster has drawn them, there'd be a huge, open space facing onto the garden.
  • If I was doing Westminster's revised plan then I'd be inclined to keep the wall of bedroom 3 where it is (less building work and disruption). I would also suggest flipping the locations of bedrooms 3 and 4 and the laundry, so they're along the back wall. This means relocating gas pipes, but it'll make routing water easier as it looks as though the pipes are already run down the back of the house. Plus the living spaces would get more natural light, and open onto the garden.
  • The problem in a lot of the house is light. If you put an internal courtyard in where the kitchen and dining room are then there'd be more windows.

Thanks Graemsay, that building is amazing... it is surely different to other houses. I am sure my kids would love it as it's like a castle than the modern square/boxy looks.

Yeah I bounced the mezzanine idea with my designer but he says my roof is not tall enough. If I insist, I will be better off with a second storey. :(

Lighting is major problem for the LHS of the house as there is limited lighting and so far the best solution we have are skylights.
 
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