Today was a huge day for humanity.

[BayView]

The ordinary folk zipping off to Mars and back in 15 years....codswallop.

And; why would you even want to - nothing to see, no air, no water.... a scintilla of hope they might stumble on to other life, perhaps?

At best, there might be a "bubble city" where people could go and stay, and look out at the rocks through the glass. By the time they get that sort of structure in place, our grand kids' grand kids will be in nursing homes.

Did I mention how long it will take to get there and back?

I'd like to see the opposite; the whole planet can stop spending billions on space travel, and spend it on the current planet's ailments and starving folk, etc.

Yeah, I'm all for advances in science and technology, but let's get some perspective on this endless quest.

It's a frickin' joke.

 

[Richard Feynman]

And; why would you even want to - nothing to see, no air, no water.... a scintilla of hope they might stumble on to other life, perhaps?

At best, there might be a "bubble city" where people could go and stay, and look out at the rocks through the glass. By the time they get that sort of structure in place, our grand kids' grand kids will be in nursing homes.

Did I mention how long it will take to get there and back?

I'd like to see the opposite; the whole planet can stop spending billions on space travel, and spend it on the current planet's ailments and starving folk, etc.

Yeah, I'm all for advances in science and technology, but let's get some perspective on this endless quest.

It's a frickin' joke.

You make good points on spending, but there is a case for spending on both (not to mention this is a private company).

I implore you to invest the two minutes to watch this -- it's almost as though Musk read your post and responded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SECSxUbXTA

His quest is driven by one goal: to ensure humanity becomes a multi-planetary species. This is a good thing.

The sun has a finite lifetime. And any number of unforeseen, catastrophic events can occur in the future to--and on--planet earth.

It's smart to have a back up.

More food for thought:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/larry-page-elon-musk-2014-3

Google CEO Larry Page has an unusual idea about what should happen to his billions should he die.

Instead of giving it to a philanthropic organisation, he?d rather hand over his cash to Elon Musk, the founder of Tesla, SpaceX, and Solar City.

In a conversation with Charlie Rose at the TED conference, Page said he wants his money going to capitalists like Musk with big ideas for changing the world, according to a report at Wired.

He thinks Musk?s vision for going to Mars as ?to back up humanity? is inspired. He said, ?That?s a company, and that?s philanthropical.?

According to some people on Twitter, Page even went as far as suggesting that everyone give their money to a corporation that was trying to accomplish big stuff.

We?re not sure if he?s being literal or figurative here. There are surprisingly few write ups of these comments on the web.

It seems like he?s making a larger point, which is that the right company run by the right person can have a major impact.

 

[topcropper]

And; why would you even want to - nothing to see, no air, no water.... a scintilla of hope they might stumble on to other life, perhaps? .

Come on Bayview! Humans can't stay a one planet species forever?

I happen to think that the universe is teaming with life. But there is also a slim chance that life on earth is a trillion trillion trillion to one fluke and earth is it? I would have thought that if the universe was teaming with life, that we might have some evidence by now? But nothing.

Humans are going to explore and travel through space. I think the 15 years bit is rubbish, and the $500,000 is just laughable. But I reckon humans will be on Mars in 30 years, and in 50 years have a permanent base there and may have travelled further to some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

I think Mars will be totally sterile. They won't find any life, and I hope they don't. If there is no life, there will be no objection to trying to terraform the planet. I reckon in a thousand years time there might be oceans of water and a partly breathable atmosphere on Mars. What an achievement that would be for humans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars

It would partly make up for the trashing of this planet?


See ya's.

 

[BayView]

His quest is driven by one goal: to ensure humanity becomes a multi-planetary species. This is a good thing.

Why is it good?

This all falls into the category of; things humans can do, but do not necessarily need to do them.

Come on Bayview! Humans can't stay a one planet species forever?

Why not?

What's wrong with how long we've been here so far (except for the fact we are overpopulating it and stuffing it up because of that - and I'm not referring to GW or CC).

This place is perfectly suited to us to sustain life - as long as we control ourselves and our actions - in the nick of time (personally, I think we are too late).

How long does it take to get to Mars?- which is the closest possibility that might sustain human life by the way. Latest trip was 253 days in 2012, apparently.

http://www.universetoday.com/14841/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-to-mars/

 

[Banvard]

I think the thing to remember is that what will truly open up space travel is new rocket technology, which won't come about without people like Musk taking early steps.

A fusion rocket accelerating at 1G (and then decelerating at 1G at the halfway point) would bring travel to Mars down to 2 or 3 days. 1G gives a nice Earth like simulated gravity inside for passenger comfort. It's not that far beyond our technology either.

But I don't think Mars is that great a target. The moon (for all it's Helium 3 for those fusion rockets) is a good source of materials that has a much smaller gravity well.

I want to see a moon base then exploration of the asteroids etc. Terraforming planets is a nice idea, but I think we will have a massive space habitat based population before terraforming is viable.


Elon Musk and his rockets are an important stepping stone to new technology. With cheap reliable rockets, we can start building space elevators and all those fun things.

Expanding beyond Earth is necessary for humanities long term survival and Elon Musk will always be remembered for the role he is playing.

 

[Dazz]

You make good points on spending, but there is a case for spending on both

There's always a good case for arguing both. All of the arguing and posturing becomes a moot point when you only have a certain amount of cash. It's called competing priorities.

Do you fund Earth activities a little bit more, do you fund Mars activities a little bit more, or do you fund both a tiny bit more ?? Either way, you solve none of them.

His quest is driven by one goal: to ensure humanity becomes a multi-planetary species. This is a good thing.

If that is his only goal then I reckon he was born in the wrong century. I'm unconvinced it is a good thing. I reckon this attached link is closer to the mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOi6v5DD_1M


People were talking about colonising the Moon after the 1969 Apollo missions, and nothing happened.

Bond movies got onto it with their Moonraker episode in 1979....but alas, reality is not the same. Of course, the Moon is infinitely easier than Mars, but we've been unable or unwilling or both.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2GTKBx4H5Y

The sun has a finite lifetime. And any number of unforeseen, catastrophic events can occur in the future to--and on--planet earth. It's smart to have a back up.

Yeah, just like the climate science brigade, you're woefully mixing up human scale timeframes with solar body timeframes. They don't match up, never have, never will.

The Sun is about 4.5 Billion years old, and is about half way through it's stable life. It's got another 4 Billion years of stable chugging along before anything dramatic happens to it.

Same can't be said for the Earth however.

Scientists do expect it to expand and get hotter gradually, such that in 1 Billion years time, all of the terrestrial water on earth is vaporised and all life will cease on Earth. No biggy for the Sun. No biggy for the Earth either.

The Earth won't care, and we humans won't be here in a Billion years anyway. No species, especially as complicated as us, has ever survived that long. We're lucky to have scratched out 0.1% of that relatively short 1 Billion year timeframe.

As I said, trying to match up human activity timelines to heavenly body timelines is a non-event.

In any case, the "back-up" theory is defunct. When the Sun eventually goes pop and turns into a red giant, it will expand and swallow up Mercury, Venus and Earth as it expands and consumes everything in it's path, nearly getting out to Mars, so in 4.5 Billion years time whatever is left on Earth will be absorbed into a burning molten Sun.

No need for a "back-up". We won't be here, and neither will the Earth. No need to be depressed or sad, it's just how things will be.

 

[ok180]

No need for a "back-up". We won't be here, and neither will the Earth. No need to be depressed or sad, it's just how things will be.

True, we're so caught up in our own little world thinking everything is so important here and now but we are just a tiny little speck in the grand scheme of things.

 

[The Fence]

True, we're so caught up in our own little world thinking everything is so important here and now but we are just a tiny little speck in the grand scheme of things.

.....but we are just a tiny little speck in the grand scheme of nothing !

 

[cimbom]

You make good points on spending, but there is a case for spending on both (not to mention this is a private company).

I implore you to invest the two minutes to watch this -- it's almost as though Musk read your post and responded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SECSxUbXTA

His quest is driven by one goal: to ensure humanity becomes a multi-planetary species. This is a good thing.

The sun has a finite lifetime. And any number of unforeseen, catastrophic events can occur in the future to--and on--planet earth.

It's smart to have a back up.

More food for thought:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/larry-page-elon-musk-2014-3

I support increased funding into space technologies because the benefits of improved scientific knowledge are immense. I think it's a sad state of affairs that the likes of China and India can invest in this area but we find it unaffordable and not worth our while. It's not just about travelling to and living on Mars but also the potential to develop a whole host of technologies and a bigger body of knowledge that can benefit us on Earth too.

 

[Banvard]

The Earth won't care, and we humans won't be here in a Billion years anyway. No species, especially as complicated as us, has ever survived that long. We're lucky to have scratched out 0.1% of that relatively short 1 Billion year timeframe.

As I said, trying to match up human activity timelines to heavenly body timelines is a non-event.

In any case, the "back-up" theory is defunct. When the Sun eventually goes pop and turns into a red giant, it will expand and swallow up Mercury, Venus and Earth as it expands and consumes everything in it's path, nearly getting out to Mars, so in 4.5 Billion years time whatever is left on Earth will be absorbed into a burning molten Sun.

No need for a "back-up". We won't be here, and neither will the Earth. No need to be depressed or sad, it's just how things will be.

The back up theory isn't defunct - your entire argument is based on things there is absolutely no way to predict accurately. No other species long term survival is even remotely comparable to ours.

You are thinking too small - a billion years of humanity adapting, developing new technology and exploring the universe? Look what we have done in the past few hundred years.

Maybe we will be all wiped out by each other or an AI of our own creation or aliens or a gamma ray burst. Maybe we will have re-fueled or stabilised the sun for sentimental purposes. Maybe we will have thrown a warp bubble around the entire galaxy and ridden it into another dimension. Maybe we all exist inside a computer simulation and will get turned off tomorrow. Hell, maybe Elon Musk will get scanned into a computer and spearhead humanities exploration of the universe for the next billion years.


We don't know. I doubt we could accurately predict what humanity will be like in 1000 years, yet alone a billion. We might end up being a non event, but that's just one possibility - not a certainty.


People like Elon Musk and the ones who are doing their best to make sure humanity isn't a non event. Which I think is pretty awesome.

 

[cimbom]

I agree. Just look at all the advances we've made even over the last 20 years or so. There is lots of exciting research going on at present too - look into the aims of the Human Brain Project, life extension technology, advances in genetics, etc. These will likely result in massive changes in our lifetimes.

 

[Dazz]

The back up theory isn't defunct - your entire argument

....it wasn't an argument.

I doubt we could accurately predict what humanity will be like in 1000 years, yet alone a billion. We might end up being a non event, but that's just one possibility - not a certainty.

I have no interest in predicting what humanity will be like in 1000 years, or a million or a billion.

I was just stating fact about what the solar system bodies or rock and gas will do, regardless of humans.

 

[Banvard]

Yeah I am dissapointed to be born probably only a little before awesome life extension technology.

 

[Banvard]

....it wasn't an argument.

An exchange of differing views? Sounds like an argument to me. It's a good thing.

Anyway, I think many people think too small when it comes to the future of humanity and I love that Elon Musk doesn't.

 

[Banvard]

If you have no interest in predicting humanities future, how do you know we won't modify the solar system to our needs?

 

[Fifth]

Yeah I am dissapointed to be born probably only a little before awesome life extension technology.

Considering there are over 7 billion of us, I fail to see the awesomeness of any scifi-esque life extension technology that would have us living for an inordinate number of years.

Either only the wealthiest will be able to afford it, in which case hello undying superhuman overlords! Or everyone can afford it, in which case hello overpopulated, over-polluted, resource-depleted cesspool of a planet!

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I'd like to see the opposite; the whole planet can stop spending billions on space travel, and spend it on the current planet's ailments and starving folk, etc.

Marc, time to come back to the real world, mate. Musk has already built a fully electric car that outperforms high end sports cars (using an electric motor invented by a guy who died nearly 100 years ago).

Aside from that, as long as politicians are bought off by corporations, your dreams of fixing the planet are strictly a no-go zone. Taking back our planet and repairing the damage is not going to be done passively by posting on internet forums. It's only going to be accomplished through brute force and revolution.

P.S. Don't you own a 4WD, if I remember correctly?

 

[BayView]

If you have no interest in predicting humanities future, how do you know we won't modify the solar system to our needs?

We can't even modify our own weather to our needs.

One earthquake off Japan last year - the resulting Tsunami from it - wiped out so much of what humans had built in it's path, it wasn't funny.

And there was the Tsunami in Indonesia on Boxing Day a few years ago too.

And don't forget the most recent solar flare - one tiny little temper tantrum by that Star. 2 million kilometres per hour it travelled at. After less than a second it stopped it's path into space, but was estimated at well over twice the size of the Earth.

Tornadoes in the USA every summer...the list is endless.

We have achieved a lot, but we are still fleas on a dog so to speak.

I think we are a bit overconfident.

 

[topcropper]

Considering there are over 7 billion of us, I fail to see the awesomeness of any scifi-esque life extension technology that would have us living for an inordinate number of years.

Either only the wealthiest will be able to afford it, in which case hello undying superhuman overlords! Or everyone can afford it, in which case hello overpopulated, over-polluted, resource-depleted cesspool of a planet!

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

And imagine how grumpy an old man will be when he's 400 years old?

It will probably happen though. If it did it would be a disaster for the planet. You would have to ban all human reproduction so that those already alive could live on? Imagine the greed involved in that idea? The mind boggles?


See ya's.

 

[Banvard]

Life extension doesn't have to be the a cause of overpopulation, it could be the solution. Computer based brains don't take up much space! There are so many possibilities, we don't have to only imagine the ones we don't like. Who is going to pursue options with the worst outcomes anyway?


We have already totally changed the face of our planet - we already experiment with controlling the weather, we already plan for ways to combat possible future issue. Just because what we can do now is limited, doesn't mean it always will be.

I think imaging humanity is insignificant compared to the solar system doing it's thing for the next billion years is the wrong way to look at it. Our planet, our solar system are insignificant compared to what humanity could (and hopefully will) achieve in a billion years.

In 1903 a wood and fabric plane made the first successful powered flight. Just 66 years later we fired off a 2.9 million ton rocket and landed people on the moon.


Who knows where we will be in 100 years, 1000 years or a billion years. I am not saying we won't be wiped out. But what we can potentially achieve in those time frames if mind boggling.


We have the potential to engineer the entire solar system to our needs. Controlling the sun or disassembling entire planets for raw materials is not beyond the scope of possibility.

The universe is a big place, so maybe Earth will be long abandoned. But the possibilities are endless.