Today's Tribunal Visit

I had a visit to the Tenancies Tribunal in South Australia today.. here's a few notes on what went on, what I can do better next time, and what worked well this time.


Situation: Tenant around 5 weeks in arrears, appropriate paperwork served.. finally got a hearing date.. the hearing day was roughly 10 days after the Application was delivered to the tribunal.

Tenant hadn't moved out after Notice to Remedy Breach served and breach not rectified.. Applied to tribunal for vacant possession and refund of bond to me.

Had tried everything to get the Tenant out, had offered them a full bond refund 2 weeks ago in return for an orderly exit and a reasonably clean house (an attempt to short circuit the process).. They agreed to this.. but just couldnt get their act together to move out (or didnt want to).. Claimed they had nowhere to put their stuff.. luckily its a big site so I went to the expense (not very large) of putting a Shipping Container there for them to store their stuff in. (in reality I need one at the site for some building work in about 6months time, so its not wasted money :) )

Anyhow.. Tribunal visit was today.. arrived in my best suit.. Had all my paperwork in order, particularly the original lease, the rent record, detailed notes on what had happened (who said what, when, agreements about arrears I had made with Tenants)..

The Tenants didnt turn up (not surprisingly, but its nice when they don't, it always goes so much smoother).. Hearing commenced, sitting Member (like a Junior Magistrate) verified details of Tenancy, checked rent record, validated my original Breach noticed was in order.. and then granted the return of bond to me and a Vacant Possession order..

The Member asked me if I thought 7 days was appropriate for them to move out (7 days is the MAXIMUM that can be allowed under the SA Act).. She seemed a litle suprised when I said "No" and proceeded to demonstrate how much I'd done to try and resolve the situation.. she was particularly impressed with the shipping container idea! :) At the end of my 2-3 minute monologue she agreed 7 days was excessive and wound it back to 4 days which I was happy with.

So come next Wednesday if they havent moved out, I'll have access to the Bailiff to assist them out of the house.. which is always an interesting experience. I'm yet to have a Tenant actually HOME when the Bailiff arrives..
I await next weeks eviction with bated breath!


So a couple of new lessons from Today:

1) Make sure you can demonstrate at a hearing what YOU have done to try and resolve the situation.. it can work in your favor even if the Tenant doesnt take you up on any of your offers. The return of the bond idea I'm going to use again.. if I can shortcut the whole process by 4 weeks I'm ahead.. especially if at least some token cleaning is done.

2) Be prepared to challenge (politely) any suggestions the Member makes about number of days, penalties etc.. But dont argue.

I was nervous.. but I think that helps.. its my 3rd solo trip to the Tribunal but I've sat thru a number of hearings previously. (they're public!). This latest eviction was my last "Agent Placed Problem Tenant", they should NEVER have been allowed into the property, the Agent signed the lease on my behalf without verifying their suitability with me. She was sacked shortly after and I started my self-management lark.
 
Very well done! Congratulations on a successful outcome on your hearing.

You mentioned in your post that you have sat in on a few Tribunal Hearings as they are open to the public. How would I go about finding out where and when these are on? I'd like to go along to some too just to find out what happens. Could be very interesting.
 
luckyone said:
You mentioned in your post that you have sat in on a few Tribunal Hearings as they are open to the public. How would I go about finding out where and when these are on? I'd like to go along to some too just to find out what happens. Could be very interesting.


Hi,

It would be dependent on your State as its all State based.

For SA.. just turn up at Level 4, 100 Pirie St around 9.30am, as hearings get called you can just follow all the parties in, there'll be chairs at the back of the little hearing rooms.. Its extremely unusual for anyone to observe so expect to get questions about why you're in the room.. when it happened to me I just said "I'm a private landlord and I wanted to get a feel for how things work, I'll just sit back here and not say anything if thats OK?".. Its fascinating stuff, try and pick the cases where there appears to be MORE than 1 party going into the hearing.. ie, the PM AND the Tenants.. much more interesting.

For the other states.. I'm not sure on where/what each Tribunal is and what there rules are, do a web search to find the body responsible then call them.
 
Duncan, The fun part is when the bailiff is called out. I recently had the bailiff out(south aust) and the wife and teenage son were home, husband had retired to the pub. They had left finding a new house too late and were digging in and swearing at anyone that went near the place. Bailiff called for police backup, both police were young and did not know how many persons in house so they called in backup for the backup.

In the end a 3 day extension was given with special permission from the RTT.

At the end of 3 days tenants had cooled down and gave up possession leaving furniture.

The furniture did not bother me as I had 3 weeks work to do on the place. However proper procedure is to notify the landlord to gain entry. The tenants just jemmied a window open and took their furniture.

As the tenancy had been terminated this was a police matter not RTT. So I went to the police to file a report for unlawfull entry. The police asked what was taken. Well they took their own TV and their own washing machine etc.

The police said this was too trivial and refused to take the report.

PS It is a good idea to take 1 or 2 items of larger value for special storage.
And also if you take the DOB of the tenants from the rental application form, the police can usually run a check on the tenants for outstanding warrants etc
 
stirling said:
Duncan, The fun part is when the bailiff is called out. I recently had the bailiff out(south aust) and the wife and teenage son were home, husband had retired to the pub. They had left finding a new house too late and were digging in and swearing at anyone that went near the place. Bailiff called for police backup, both police were young and did not know how many persons in house so they called in backup for the backup.

In the end a 3 day extension was given with special permission from the RTT.

At the end of 3 days tenants had cooled down and gave up possession leaving furniture.

The furniture did not bother me as I had 3 weeks work to do on the place. However proper procedure is to notify the landlord to gain entry. The tenants just jemmied a window open and took their furniture.

As the tenancy had been terminated this was a police matter not RTT. So I went to the police to file a report for unlawfull entry. The police asked what was taken. Well they took their own TV and their own washing machine etc.

The police said this was too trivial and refused to take the report.

PS It is a good idea to take 1 or 2 items of larger value for special storage.
And also if you take the DOB of the tenants from the rental application form, the police can usually run a check on the tenants for outstanding warrants etc


Stirling,

Thanks for that info.. very nice to hear of other SA experiences. I like the idea of larger items taken for special storage :)

The management of the subsequent return to retrieve possessions will be an interesting experience, the property has a VERY large lockable shed on it.. I'll talk to the Bailiff and see if the legislation allows me to rearrange their belongings in that 48hr period that I'm obliged to give to let them retrieve them before storage takes place.
 
Update!

Well today was meant to eviction day.. 11am.. I was at the property at 10.30am, no sign of tenants.. all furniture still there, cat inside... Knocked (rather loudly) on the door, no answer.. but they weren't answering my knocks a few weeks ago when I chasing late rent.. Called Tenants mobile, no answer.. no suprise.

Called the Tribunal at 11am to organise Bailiff.. waited 30mins for a phone call back.. Oh dear, Bailiff working out North today.. cant come until tomorrow.. I'm busy all day tomorrow (one of the downsides of self-management!), organised Bailiff for 9.30am Friday..

No time to waste, got stuck into the yard.. Much mowing and bushcutting to be done.. had a peek in all the windows.. messy kitchen, thankfully it just looks like piles of rubbish.. looks like they lived on Takeaway.. yay! Mess; nothing I didnt expect from previous vists to the house.. suspect carpets are a write-off.. Smokers too.. its gonna smell in there, who knows where the cat's been crapping, with the carpet coming up wont matter too much. Hopefully there was a tray somewhere.. even if it wasnt getting emptied.. whats with Cats living INSIDE houses? ugh.

For once.. no rubbish dumping fees.. I've got 1800sqm of land adjoining it, big fence seperating.. so I'm creating a big rubbish pile over there, when I get around to building on it.. I'll clean it up :)

Spent about 4 hrs on the yard.. Cheekily sent the Tenant an SMS "Want your stuff or should I sell it?, what about cat, RSPCA??".. VERY hurried response (yay, some leverage at last!) "Will b picking up cat 2nite, all stuff tmw, will come n clean wkend".. yeah right, I'LL be the one cleaning on the weekend :) Thankfully, the shipping container is still there, and a very big secure workshop so if they dont pick their feral possessions up I can get it all out of the house without immediately having to rent a storage place. Will do the Lions share on the weekend of the worst of it and get my normal cleaner in for a whole day next week. I think a house is sparkling, she walks in and tuts and shakes her head at me "I thought you said this was quite clean" etc... a days work from her later.. I cant believe how much better it looks.

After bond refund.. so far out of pocket $490 in rent. Suspect at least $600 worth of cleaning + minor repairs to damage. Carpet was new at start of Tenancy 3 years ago.. so I'm sure for the $1500 replacement cost I'll be able to get at least half of that from the Tribunal.

So I'm hopeful of an order for around $1350 from the Tribunal when I go back in a month or so. Collection will be difficult but it'll be a good experience, I've never used the civil legal system before so I'm looking forward to learning about that.

Hopefully by Saturday Week it'll be back on the Rental Market..

I quite enjoyed the 4hrs in the sun today doing some manual work, nice to get away from computers and the internet for a few hours AND getting some exercise to boot.I'm rather looking forward to two days of hard work on the weekend. I tried to talk some (supposed) Mates into a working bee.. no takers.. who can blame then? :)

It's a bit of an ugly duckling house, but funnily enough, just mowing the weeds and trimming the bushes a bit helped immensely.. after the gutters are repainted and some water splashed about for a few days it'll look ALMOST pretty (for the area)..

Here's the ugly duckling herself, before I got stuck into the mowing etc..:


BaytonBefore.jpg


ps.. please excuse this rather gonzo narrative style, too tired to form correct sentences and correct my grandma :)
 
Hi Duncan, how much rent do you expect per week once the house is shipshape and bristol fasion?
I'm assuming this is a morphie? - or a woodie? ;)

thx
shaunw
 
ShaunW said:
Hi Duncan, how much rent do you expect per week once the house is shipshape and bristol fasion?
I'm assuming this is a morphie? - or a woodie? ;)

thx
shaunw

Its actually H(C)untfield Heights property.. so around $190pw, maybe more its got a big yard that would suit a big dog, thats going to be worth a premium rent.
 
g'day duncan

looks good!

just think of all the good work that manual labour is doing, as long as your've got the sunscreen on.

have you thought about selling the rocks in the front yard? there seems to be a lot of them.

cheers
quoll
 
quoll said:
have you thought about selling the rocks in the front yard? there seems to be a lot of them.

They're pretty ordinary rocks.. I think I'll dump them over the back.. they look terrible.. there's also overgrown beds of that pebbly rough red rock.. I'm sure what its called.. its ugly stuff.
 
Evicted!!

Latest..


Bailliff came down at 9.30am today.. the Tenants were HOME (unbelievable!). Bailiff gave them their marching orders.. they didnt want to leave, started to argue about needing more time to move.. Bailiff very firmly told them NO.. they HAD to leave.. Bailiff invited me in to change locks, place a mess, but no real damage.. just dirty and piles of crap everywhere.. Tenants took 40mins to gather some of their possessions together.. seemed remarkably concerned over about 10 bottles of cheap wine, took those.. Rounded up cat.. got some clothes together.. and drove off..

I have to give them access to collect their stuff between 8.30 and 5 tomorrow and Sunday.. I have a gut feeling they wont turn up.. I used my WICKED NEW BOLT CUTTERS on the shipping container door to see what was in there.. not much.. a crappy TV, some boxes that look promising (if they dont claim them back).. A Holden Red 308 Engine Block (wtf?)..

Popped MY big padlock on the shipping container.. secured the gate.. will be back tomorrow..

For someone who left their house in a huge mess.. check out their attention to hygeine with their Toilet Seat.. wtf!? Whats all this about??:

Toilet_wtfsmall.jpg


Rest of the house much the same.. just piles of stuff everywhere.. much like what it was 6mo ago when I saw it.. No better, no worse..

Looks like just 1 room will need new carpet.. 2-3 days cleaning and it'll be back on the market.
 
duncan_m said:
For someone who left their house in a huge mess.. check out their attention to hygeine with their Toilet Seat.. wtf!? Whats all this about??:
Given their inability to aim at the rubbish bin, the lady of the household probably felt this was necessary to protect her from the podium aim of the gentleman.

Wasn't that nicely phrased?
 
quiggles said:
Given their inability to aim at the rubbish bin, the lady of the household probably felt this was necessary to protect her from the podium aim of the gentleman.

Wasn't that nicely phrased?

Made me think of an old ditty.

" No use standing on the seat , the c.... round here jump fifteen feet ..." :eek:

See Change
 
duncan_m said:
I have to give them access to collect their stuff between 8.30 and 5 tomorrow and Sunday

Well, they were a no show today to pick up the rest of their umm, possessions.

I was there at 8.30.. spent about 3 hrs doing some more Garden work.. came to the conclusion that they wouldnt be coming.. so somewhat trepidly but with growing enthusiam started to move the contents of the house into the large shed that I have on that site.. (its about 8m x 5m).

At first I tried to sort out their rubbish from their possessions.. but it was just too hard trying to work out what fitted into each category so it all ended up together :D I found numerous Choc Milk containers half full.. potatoes on the floor of the lounge room (wtf!?), about 15 FULL ashtrays, lots of half finished cups of coffee.. carefully removed those.. HINT for next time: Take a good long SLOW walk thru a house you're about to clean out and make sure everything that COULD hold a liquid DOESN'T. Missed a few :(

There was just STUFF everywhere..

Take for example, this corner of the loungeroom.. its kinda like the rest of the house:

Stuff1.jpg


And a bedroom:

Stuff2.jpg


It took from about 11.30am thru till 5.30pm (alone) to move EVERYTHING to the shed.. kids toys, clothes, kitchen stuff, furniture (robes, couches, dining suite, contents of bathroom, 3 bedrooms, 2 double beds, all of the family heirlooms (like the Copperart lamps purchased while on special in 1997 and lovingly handed down from generation to generation ever since).

I used 48 GARBAGE BAGS!! to pack their stuff and rubbish away..

Here's the full shed :) Its a bit higgledypiggledly, but I'm not a very good packer at the best of times, and it wasnt even my stuff. :)

FullShed.jpg


Trust me, that shed goes back a LOOONG way.. Not much of value really.. a nice fridge.. but filthy like you would not believe.. I aint cleaning it either :) The biggest collection of those Yellow Smiley Face Trinkets, balls, lamps, keyrings, posters.. weird collection, but not in one place.. all over the freaking house..

So, now I have an EMPTY house.. Yay! And a FULL shed :(

The Cleaner is going in on Wed/Thur.. Carpet Cleaner going thru on Fri (I think I can salvage all the carpets)..

So what to do with the contents of the shed? The act is pretty clear.. and its spelled out here.

Its my reckoning that the combined value of all their ***** ermm, their heirlooms is LESS than what it would cost to Move, Store for 60 days, then sell.. It would take 2 guys at least half a day to move it.. truck hire, storage unit hire for 2 months (need a big unit).. Will get some faxes etc confirming cost of storage unit (in case the Tenant has a hissy fit later).

Given my estimation of the value (almost NIL) the act gives me the right to dispose of the goods this coming Monday.. but I need to double check that my dead reckoning is good enough or if I need to engage an Auctioneer or CopperArt/HomeArt collector to defnitively assess the value. Will call the Tribunal on Monday and pose the question.. The disposal of the goods presents a few problems.. the dumping fees would be huge.. I'm thinking of running an advert in the Garage Sales section or something and seeing how much stuff I can give away before I get a very large skip in.. not sure on legalities, will check that as well.

Towards the end of the day I thought I better move the half empty fish tank that I'd been walking back and forth in front of the entire day.. took a bucked and started to empty it and then jumped back startled.. there was a freaking TORTOISE in the tank that got left behind! About the size of a saucer.. havent dealt with it yet, its the last thing.. Not sure what to do with it.. I have a pond of Marron at home.. I'm not sure if they'd get on.. but I could try..

Not much damage thankfully. Just dirty all through.
 
Last edited:
Duncan

Don't put the Tortoise/Turtle in with anything, they eat everything. Had a water lily in the pond with ours .. got eaten had to buy a second pond for the plants. They can climb as well, which is why the tank was half empty. I'm surprised at how far they can fall without doing major damage to themselves.

You might try the reptile shop on Beach road at Christies, give them the turtle, or the pet shop, the big turtles don't sell for much. The little babies seem a lot more expensive.

Good luck
quoll
 
duncan_m said:
all of the family heirlooms (like the Copperart lamps purchased while on special in 1997 and lovingly handed down from generation to generation ever since).
Got a good laugh from that quote.

You seem very composed through all of this Dunc, that's a good thing (must be all that healthy eating), don't know if I'd be quite as rational. But then again, the calmer (maybe that should read karma) you keep the situation, the better the outcome for all.

Hope things start to look up for you in regards to this property.

Regards
Marty
 
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