Tricky One ?

[PIppety]

Hi there,

Does anyone know the legalities around rooms in apartments with no windows ???

I have an apartment with 1 bedroom and a study. The study does not currently have a door on it and from what I know would not have passed council approval on completion if it did because it does not have any windows.

The current tenant wants to sublet the other room to someone to assist with the rent and also wants a door put on.

I am not that keen to put a door on or accept the sub-let without understanding:

1. Is it legal to have a door (and I assume not otherwise why would it have been a problem above)
2. Is it legal for someone to live in a room with no windows and a door ?
3. Is it legal for someone to live in a room with no windows but some other sort of screening for a door (eg. curtain or japanese type screen)

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I need to provide a response ASAP.

Many Thanks
PIppety

 

[Savanna100]

It is not legal to have a habitable room without a window.
A bedroom is a habitable room.

(Bathrooms can have no windows but they must be mechanically ventilated. Bathrooms are also not classified as "habitable rooms").

Therefore, in regard to making a second bedroom, do not put a door on this alcove as it will create a non-habitable room.

You could put up a screening device of some sort but it all comes down to the amenity of this space for the occupant ....it would be very poor amenity in my view.

I you really want to do it why not use a wardrobe as a room divider....the occupant of the alcove will need one anyway.


Savanna

 

[Kristine..]

Pippety

Throughout Melbourne there are many apartments using the 'borrowed light' principle.

This means that an internal window is fitted in the wall above the door lintel height up to the coving / cornice height, and allows light to filter through to the inner room, while maintaining the privacy of the room.

It is used extensively in converted office buildings which are now being used for residential. If memory serves, 'Concept Blue', the redevelopment of the Police Headquarters building uses borrowed light for bedrooms, and I certainly have seen it for second and subsequent bedrooms in purpose built student accommodation in Melbourne.

Have a chat to your local Council, but in my opinion, you wouldn't need a building permit to install a window and frame up a door in a non-load bearing internal wall.

However, many apartment buildings are constructed like concrete leggo blocks, and all internal walls are pre-formed concrete and all are load bearing to the identical wall above. The Council would have the building plans on file and would tell you if you need an engineers report on installing a lintel above any new opening (for the window).

If this would be too expensive for you without a rent increase to the tenant, then perhaps consider simply framing the doorway properly at the tenant's expense, and not knowing what the tenant then decides to do with the study? Provided that they remain the responsible lessee under the lease and pay utilities such as power and water which would increase, I wouldn't really want to know.

I had tenants once who moved into a three bedroom house with five !! foster children. They promptly divided up the oversized double garage with old office partitioning into bedrooms, and the older children slept in the garage. Children's services, the police and other official departments knew about this (I didn't until years later) and they were the best tenants for more than five years.

So - don't worry, be happy! If you've got a good tenant, be a happy landlord!

Cheers

Kristine

 

[Michael Croft]

Hi Pippety,

Is the unit on the top floor? If so can a vented skylight be fitted?

Regards, Michael Croft

 

[PIppety]

1 Bedder with Study

Thanks all for the feedback.

In my situation it is not an option to add a skylight or really do any alterations to the study at all.

It is almost brand new and the study is "internal" with 3 floors above it.

It is a big room (almost as big as the bedroom) and has an open door (without an actual door), if that makes sense.

Hopefully this clarifies things a little. I suppose I was just trying to find out what the options are. I am starting to realise that so long as I don't personally arrange a door to the room (without a window) and don't screen it off myself that it is really up to the tenants whether they sleep together in the bedroom, sleep separately in the bedroom and study etc etc.

Any other advice / comments would be most appreciated.

Cheers
PIppety

 

[Kristine..]

Pippety

Just a final thought

I am renovating my daughter's townhouse at the moment, and the doors go to the ceiling 2430mm high

The kitchen pantry door, however, has a window above a standard height door, 2030.

The kitchen to entry door was 2430, and I have cut it down to 2030 and installed a window above it, framed to match the pantry door. This creates better perspective in the kitchen, instead of two doors of different heights.

Perhaps something similar for the study if you decide to close the room off? That way there is nothing structural to do, just a door frame with a glass panel fitted above door height. Shouldn't cost more than $250 - $300 complete. And the next tenant would accept without comment that there are two bedrooms, albeit that one doesn't have a wardrobe.

Cheers

Kristine

 

[D.T.]

Hi Kristine,

What about the fact that it's inhabitable due to the fact theres no windows or ventilation?

-Regards

Dave

 

[Kristine..]

Dave

As I mentioned in the earlier post, many of the apartment developments now have borrowed light for bedrooms.

So the rooms do have a window, albeit one which gets it's light from another room, and not directly from outside light.

As for the subject of ventilation, unless the bedroom window or door is left open, any ordinary bedroom is getting its ventilation from the opening and closing of the door. It is not, after all, a sealed bank vault.

Lots of apartment buildings now have artificial ventilation, that is, airconditioning, and many do not have opening windows above certain floors.

I remember one stunning apartment development, which used the ventilation shaft / light well principle between the new building and the existing neighbouring building, but because the whole building was air conditioned, all of the windows to the shaft were sealed.

After all, we live in an era of change. The old triple fronted cream brick veneer, with windows 4 foot from the side fence directly opposite the windows of the adjoining house also 4 foot from the fence, would not meet building standards today.

Res Code requires that no new window can be installed in an exterior wall (new dwelling, renovations, extensions) if, at 1.7m height, looking out of the proposed window in a 55 degree arc slewed either way through 35 degrees, there would be an invasion of privacy to an existing dwelling, or the window of another habitable room within 9 metres.

But to meet the demands of high density living, a less bombastic approach is being taken as to the definition of habitable and uninhabitable. After all, you could sleep in the lounge room or the bathroom or the wardrobe if it took your fancy, if the whole of the dwelling space comprised a sealed unit with no opening windows, the issue of ventilation is not relevant. The whole of the dwelling space is either habitable or it is not. Class 2 buildings do not follow the same rules at Class 1.

My bet is that Pippety's building has been built to a certain occupation density, rather than room density. The rooms would be small (no minimum size now) but adequate, and provide independent living spaces. If the rooms had been fully constructed as 'bedrooms' then the occupation rate would have been deemed to be 1.5 persons per bedroom (or whatever) therefore live building loads, air conditioning, car parking, utilities and waste disposal services would have been designed to service the needs of eg 300 people. By leaving the 'study' open, the anticipated occupation may have been eg 200 people, requiring less extensive contributions for services, therefore less upfront cost to the developer, and more 'after sale' discretion and flexibility to the purchasers / occupants.

How many curtains are already installed across the study walkway with how many flip out sofas permanently flipped out in the study?

Beware the red herrings!

Kristine