Unapproved Granny Flats

[sluggo33x]

What are people's thoughts on buying an IP with an existing unapproved granny flat?

You can just take the risk and start renting it out, or approach council for approval. I figure council will either approve unconditionally, approve subject to conditions (alterations, compliance etc) or reject and serve you a demolition order.

Thoughts?

 

[Shahin_Afarin]

not worth the headache imo.

 

[spludgey]

Depends where it is. I've got one on the Central Coast and I don't see this as being an issue due to the prevalence of unapproved granny flats up there. It's not that likely that they'll get shut down.
Other areas, I'd be weary however.

Also, in NSW, don't go to the council, go to a private certifier. It could mean that your granny flat would be approved within 10 days if it meets all the requirements (unlikely).

 

[nhg]

Rent it as a sleep out.

If you want to get it approved, you really need to understand what will get through council and what won't.

I've seen a lot of 'granny flats' that were unaproved that looked pretty legit, that didn't have a chance in hell of getting through council.

Agents try to flog them off as STCA until I whip out my measuring tape and check distances, heights and easments.

 

[sluggo33x]

The last one I saw was hard up against the boundary so too risky, but what about the ones that appear to comply, still a level of risk. I'm talking western suburbs NSW.

 

[RetireRich101]

The last one I saw was hard up against the boundary so too risky, but what about the ones that appear to comply, still a level of risk. I'm talking western suburbs NSW.

There will be some elements of risk even the ones you believe it should comply, unless this is clear from Council that it's approved. More important you should be asking Council if there were previous attempts to get it approved and reasons for rejection if any. This way you can tell previous owner tried hard and failed.

If you done your diligence and found one that may comply, I think it might be rewarding at the end if the overall purchase is good and that you were/are able to negotiate hard and saying to vendor/agent " I checked with Council and this XX is not approved and I can see you tried hard to get this approved. However I am willing to take this risk and offer you $XX"
This negotiation may work on the assumption that last few transaction failed because the average faint hearted buyer did not go through because of the approval issue.

I purchased a similar situation some 10 years ago. Council found out 2 years later after my purchase. I had to take the kitchen out and remove the "B" letter box. My rent decreased about 40% ($440 to $310) and the highest I could achieve in recent rental boom was $440. Recently I had some time and funds to get this approved via private certify, and got $750 rent for 2 dwellings.

 

[james55]

Can you rent out an unapproved granny flat if you had no kitchen and just have an electric cooktop outside?

 

[nhg]

Can you rent out an unapproved granny flat if you had no kitchen and just have an electric cooktop outside?

Better question is, will you still be covered by insurance if both houses burn down.

 

[rohan22no]

I purchased a similar situation some 10 years ago. Council found out 2 years later after my purchase. I had to take the kitchen out and remove the "B" letter box. My rent decreased about 40% ($440 to $310) and the highest I could achieve in recent rental boom was $440. Recently I had some time and funds to get this approved via private certify, and got $750 rent for 2 dwellings.

How did the council find out?? When they said "remove the kitchen" did they just mean get rid of the oven, or the whole thing (cupboards/sink) etc?

 

[brazen]

Yea, the issue is insurance and liabilities. If someone gets hurt or damages the property you wont be covered. You'd be surprised what CAN be approved. Check this guide out which lists the main requirements etc: http://www.grannyflatapprovals.com.au/tag/garage-conversions

Brazen.

 

[RetireRich101]

How did the council find out?? When they said "remove the kitchen" did they just mean get rid of the oven, or the whole thing (cupboards/sink) etc?

Not exactly sure how, as it was rented out to one large family.They requested the whole thing including kitchen cabinets. The over hanging cabinet I argued is used for storage. They will inspect it after you removed it, and I guess heavy penalties if you caught 2nd time round.

 

[travelbug]

How did the council find out?? When they said "remove the kitchen" did they just mean get rid of the oven, or the whole thing (cupboards/sink) etc?

I'd say a neighbour dobbed them in.

I looked at one for sale (Blacktown council) and the underneath had been converted but the kitchen had been taken out. Council saw the add for a granny flat rental (maybe they do random searches?) and noticed the low ceiling height (knowing that wouldn't be legal). They attended the open home and told the owners to remove the kitchen.
There's nothing wrong with lining an underneath and using it as "storage" but you can't add a second kitchen to a dwelling without approval as it then can become dual occupancy.
You can, however, install a wet bar. You could then have one of those oven and hotplates that sit on the bench.

 

[brazen]

Council's can only enforce that you remove any 'hard-wired cooking appliances'. They cant order you to remove benchtops, microwave, sink etc.

Brazen.

 

[RetireRich101]

Council's can only enforce that you remove any 'hard-wired cooking appliances'. They cant order you to remove benchtops, microwave, sink etc.

Brazen.

Not sure this ruling is council to council specific. If council request you to remove the kitchen sink and microwave, and you refused grounds on the basis of above argument, not sure what will happen then.

 

[nhg]

Not sure this ruling is council to council specific. If council request you to remove the kitchen sink and microwave, and you refused grounds on the basis of above argument, not sure what will happen then.

I doubt they can enforce the microwave.

Wet areas such as sinks and cabinets are legal anywhere from what I understand. Just not the actual ovens etc.

 

[Ideo]

I doubt they can enforce the microwave.

Wet areas such as sinks and cabinets are legal anywhere from what I understand. Just not the actual ovens etc.

Pretty much.

Had a similar issue with a small old cottage and a new house on a large rural-res block of land.

owner had to remove the oven but could keep a fridge, sink and microwave. Council then no longer considered it a second dwelling and he could continue to use it as a home office.

 

[rohan22no]

I'd say a neighbour dobbed them in.

I looked at one for sale (Blacktown council) and the underneath had been converted but the kitchen had been taken out. Council saw the add for a granny flat rental (maybe they do random searches?) and noticed the low ceiling height (knowing that wouldn't be legal). They attended the open home and told the owners to remove the kitchen.
There's nothing wrong with lining an underneath and using it as "storage" but you can't add a second kitchen to a dwelling without approval as it then can become dual occupancy.
You can, however, install a wet bar. You could then have one of those oven and hotplates that sit on the bench.

So disgusting they attended the open home purely for that purpose. Dont they have anything better to do with their time??

From my experiences, they draw the line between a "wet bar" or "kitchenette" and a "kitchen" depending if you've got a stove or not. Makes sense - thats where the fire danger comes from. Asking you to remove the sink and cupboards just seems pedantic, ridiculous, cruel!