URGENT - Tenant taking me to the tribunal PM errors to blame

[Scott No Mates]

Putting a new PM into the mix is a wasted effort, they don't have the history of the house and would have little interest in taking up the battle.

Get the monkey of a PM and the licensee who advised you in the first instance back on the case. By all means go to the tribunal and sit in on the hearing (the PM probably wouldn't recognise you in any case - listen to how poorly they have prepared - better yet meet up with the PM a week before the hearing to go through all of the evidence that they will be presenting, preparation is everything).

The tribunal don't care what amount you are leasing the house for (under/over market - it's irrelevant as they are paying what you have agreed).

 

[Paul j F]

you have made some emotive statements, keep them out when dealing with the tribunal.

the $30 below market is irrelevant. it's what you agreed to. keep that out of the tribunal too.

the big issue here is the ac. it was not excluded in the original lease, so it is included. $100 pw compensation for the ac not working looks excessive. i doubt the will get 12 months of compo either, since they did not act in a timely way.

but with tribunals you never know the result. good luck!

Absolutely correct. Leave your vents for forums and be humble at the tribunal. You attract more with honey than vinegar!

The crux of the issue is the aircon. The rest (painting, blinds etc) is essentially outside the scope of the argument unless they have requested it in writing previously....eg the carpet may be a trip hazard ...and if it is get it fixed ASAP!! Especially if the IP is in your name and not asset protected!

If a feature or appliance is installed it is implied it is working unless explicitly stated otherwise.

I only say the following to try and help you as an investor please do not take offence. Lessons to be learnt from this.... You reduced the rent by $1560 a year when you could have fixed it and got a tax deduction for around the same amount. Most PMs are not property investors themselves and don't have the vested interest you do. As you are finding out any obligation or duty of care stops with you....You MUST check all documentation and keep your head in the game yourself. As a landlord you need tenants. Make a fair and reasonable attempt to keep them and avoid this sort of thing. Although I agree in this case most of their requests are unreasonable which may work in your favor.

For your peace of mind whatever happens happens ...couple of weeks you'll have got over it. Goodluck.

 

[priscilla]

In our experiene with the CTTT (although they can be unpredictable) I would advise the following:-

1. Don't believe CTTT would make this order
2. I would take photos of the fene to the CTTT to prove the fences are still structurally sound and not falling over.
3. Don't believe CTTT would make this order
4. I believe the CTTT would see $100 as way in excess the value of air conditioning to a property, in conciliation I would suggest making an offer of say $20 per week as compensation.
5. Don't believe CTTT would make this order
6. Pet bond should be refunded as I don't believe they are not allowed in NSW
7. Don't believe CTTT would make this order
8. Unless this is a structural issue should not be a problem (photos again would be helpful in your defence of this claim)
9. Fix the air conditioning!!!!!!

Once the CTTT case is heard and the air conditioning is fixed, increase the rent to the current market value in the suburb, ensure you have evidence of comparative rents being paid should it be required at a later hearing!!!! I would be very careful of serving notice to the tenant at this stage unless if you are planning on re renting the property immediately as the CTTT could see this as retalitory action.

One you have this sorted out I would them be dealing with the incompetent PM. Do you have the exclusion of the air conditioning in your Management Agency Agreement with them?? Speak with the owner of the business - has he acknowledged his conversation with you about the $30 reduced rent for exclusuion of the air conditioning?? You would have a case against them at the CTTT if you have any proof in which case they may be ordered to pay any rent rebates which may be ordered against you.

I believe the agent should represent you at the CTTT if the notice period they served you on the MAA has not expired, effectively they are still the Managing Agent.

In regard to the new laws they were available for comment and submissions on the Fair Trading website for months before being passed. Unfortunately many people either didn't know (competent agents would have advised their Landlords) or were too lazy to make submissions but then complain when the laws are passed.......

 

[Honest John]

My two cents worth.....

You've been shafted by the PM, ditch him and do it yourself from now on, it's very simple. Name and Shame him.

Defend everything you can, even if the PM deleted the emails they'll still be in your sent box - have you checked? Have they been archived?

Take the decision with grace this time, give it a few months then issue notice, as another poster pointed out claim the decision by the tribunal has made it necessary for you to move back in.

 

[chloe1980]

Here is some more info guys

I really appreciate the assistance to date (the current PM and Principal said they are looking into the matter but still no response on their proposed course of action (they have had tenants application for 1.5 wks and response is due on Monday at Tribunal!!)

6. The original PM actually rang Dept fair trading as they said they had never heard of a pet bond and they confirmed it was ok to do so $200 lodged with original bond on the property. When I requested the 2nd pet bond be taken and added the 2nd PM confirmed that original pet bond still stands after checking with Dept Fair Trading again (I just cant add another $400 pet bond for 2 other animals as you cannot add to a bond)

8. There were ingoing photos and the Dept Fair Trading fact sheet state movement cracks in walls are fair wear and tear and the Principal of the real estate who was the one who came to the property and signed it up said they were fine then 4.5 yrs ago and they have not gotten worse since. The house was built in the early 80s

9. At an inspection 6 months after the air con stopped working we noticed tenants dogs had been digging right in front of the outside unit (this was noted on the inspection report – the tenant objected to this but it was signed off by PM, inspection report stated tenant is to put a barrier up the side of the house to stop dogs having access to the air con outside unit – they put up an old child gate which does the trick)

My husband pulled the tenants up 9 months after the tenants rented the property for not cleaning the air con filter monthly (it was absolutely filthy - this was unfortunately not documented by PM on inspection report – the air con manual states this must be done monthly.

Manual also states nothing is to enter the outside unit (i.e. dirt from the dogs digging) and no weeds etc are to grow around it (the tenants photo in their supporting docs actually shows heaps of weeds growing around it and still shows the dig marks infront of the outside unit. The PM was going to note on latest inspection report it required weeding but didn’t and I thought it was already pretty bad documenting their breaches so let it go unmentioned)

So the air con either stopped working because of the tenant or because it needs regas (we lived in this house for almost 10 yrs and what the tenant described when you tried to operate it sounds like what happened to us and all that was required was a regassed but given the above it maybe more serious than that)

What are peoples thoughts on trying to show the tenant is partly to responsible for the air con not working – I have the manual which supports the above mistreatment of it

Oh by the way – I tracked down the original PM. Forwarded the email from the tenant to PM documenting the meeting at the property took place where I told tenants air not part of lease and will not be fixed and rent adjusted accordingly. The PM works for the same r/e chain in a suburb an hour away (a rather ritzy one too)(PM stated they managed 200 properties at the time and could not recall my property. I forwarded the house photos and then PM stated they don’t work with that r/e anymore and refused to provide a signed statement that the meeting occurred.

I notified the principal of the r/e managing my property that I had found the original PM (he had not even bothered to find her – only an internal phone call away as PM went straight from one r/e to the other and it is actually stated on the PM cv on the r/e website. Can I somehow forced original PM to provide statement??

 

[kathryn d]

Can I somehow forced original PM to provide statement??

In Canada we can subpeona witnesses.
They will not accept written letters as evidence here, because they cannot be crossed examined.

Maybe something similar there?

 

[DistinctPM]

Advice from a PM

Chloe1980,

Sounds like your PM has really let you down. Most of the advice you have been provided so far is good advice and worth following. I would recommend the following steps;

1. Respond and agree to repair the aircon within 4 weeks

2. Lodge a counter claim with the CTTT for unpaid rent since the date of the rental increase.
There is a formal process the tenants must follow if they don't agree with the increase and if this has not been followed (which is sounds like it hasn't) they will be ordered to pay the outstanding rent. This will hopefully give you the cash to repair the aircon

In regard to the rental reduction, the fact the tenants are in arrears (from the rental increase not being paid) should be highlighted in your response and this is more likely to sway the CTTT to rule that any rent reductions are to apply from the date of the hearing (not retrospectively) until such time as the aircon repairs are completed. The CTTT are very unforgiving on tenants who don't pay their rent or are in arrears.

3. Take legal action against your PM
The PM's complete lack of due care in the management of your property, failure to follow instructions from the Principal and failure to regularly inspect and record the condition of the property on a regular basis is enough for you to seek a refund of all PM fees paid to date for this property. It also appears they are providing you false and misleading information in regard to pet bonds (http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/T...andlord/Starting_a_tenancy/Taking_a_bond.html) You can collect a Bond so long as it is not more than 4 weeks rent, you cannot collect additional bonds specifically to cover pets. I would suggest a carefully worded letter from a Solicitor would do the trick.

I hope this information is useful. Distinct Property Management is a Licenced Real Estate Agency in the ACT & NSW.

Distinct is an advocate for Owners and Tenants and believe Property Management standards are generally very poor in Australia. Our systems and processes are completely transparent to maximise accountability with everything visible online all the time, all notes, correspondence, reports, rental history, leases - everything! (sorry for the plug, we are brand new and I'm excited about what we offer)

 

[depreciator]

I think a plug is entirely acceptable when you've made a good contribution.

Chloe, if I can just add, you're getting bogged down in a whole lot of peripheral stuff again that is a distraction and likely to make a arbitrator's eyes glaze over:

My husband pulled the tenants up 9 months after the tenants rented the property for not cleaning the air con filter monthly (it was absolutely filthy - this was unfortunately not documented by PM on inspection report – the air con manual states this must be done monthly.

Manual also states nothing is to enter the outside unit (i.e. dirt from the dogs digging) and no weeds etc are to grow around it (the tenants photo in their supporting docs actually shows heaps of weeds growing around it and still shows the dig marks infront of the outside unit. The PM was going to note on latest inspection report it required weeding but didn’t and I thought it was already pretty bad documenting their breaches so let it go unmentioned)

Stick to the main game.

Welcome to the forum, by the way. It's good that this thread didn't head the way these ones usually do. Normally, by now some keyboard warrior would say, 'What I would do is talk to the local Hells Angels guys and pay them to get the tenant to move on. Then I would get them to chase the property manager out of town and maybe firebomb the office for good measure.'

 

[kathryn d]

I also agree with DistictPM.

Lodging a counterclaim is very important.
Otherwise you may not be permitted to mention the arrears..or least, the Tribunal may not take it into consideration.

All of your PM's have let you down.
Maybe time for you and your husband to take over.

You will make mistakes along the way, like we all do.
This way you won't be paying a PM as well.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Melbournian]

yes lodging a counterclaim is very important. it is better to do this sooner than latter however in victoria if you leave it till later you will have to pay the cost of readjourning the hearing.

but still it is better than not having your counterclaim heard.

i didn't read the whole thread but the best advice is to document everything, pictures and dates and diary notes. statutory declarations from witnesses etc.

 

[chloe1980]

All sorted

Hi Guys

I just wanted to thank everyone for all their wonderful tips and advice during an extremely difficult period of my life.

The said PM did not show at tribunal yet they were still taking my management fees.

They sent a fax to the tribunal member that morning and the tribunal member had to tell me the PM was not turning up and that I had to represent myself.

The tribunal member was not impressed and his opening remark was something to the extent that the PM has caused the issues in an otherwise perfect landlord/tenant relationship.

By the way what are your thoughts, the PM has sent me info such that I know everything about another landlords property etc - breach of privacy legislation. This was included with my file on my rental that they sent me

If I were that landlord I would want to know........ what are peoples thoughts - should I contact them and tell them what happened?

 

[macca446]

Hi,
You need a PM that works for you, by not even turning up to the meeting says it all give them the flick and find a new one , a good PM always keeps you informed do not even bother letting them know what happened they did not even care in the first instance get rid of them asap they are not helping you.

Regards,
Don

 

[Doovalacky]

If I were that landlord I would want to know........ what are peoples thoughts - should I contact them and tell them what happened?

No, I wouldn't.

From a scan through your posts what I would be doing is contacting your department of fair trading or whoever it is that agents licenses are issued in your state.

Have a clear easy to read list of bullet points prepared to send.
Eg. 1/4/2011 - Was informed could charge 2 pet bonds of X. No background details are needed as why 2 pets occurred.
Raise a complaint against the agency in regards to the no show at court, errors etc.

Ask what process you can follow to get a refund/return of your fee's paid and perhaps compensation.

From your last post I am taking it to mean they are still collecting the tenants rent. If so I would be pulling out your management authority contract and sending them a termination letter with the minimum required notice immediately. No need to go into why in the letter leave that to the other action.
Find a new agent and have them contact the tenant and get everything ready for the management change.

 

[HotRod]

All this for $200?????

Does it matter if it's one or two dogs???

If you can't afford a $200 aircon regas on an IP, you should not be in property investing.

If you have no problem with one dog, what's the problem with another?

I've learnt that if you keep things working and respond quickly (even if it's state stating that problem X will be fixed in Y months) renters will appreciate it.

The cost not to address problem could well outweigh the savings.