USA investment properties for an Aussie

Guys what you think about investing in US based REITs instead of directly investing in properties. If there is a property boom in US, the REIT also should boom?

I did some research and the below ones seems good.
A good REIT eft based in US is:
1. REM (pays out 11.18% dividend). http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=rem&ql=1

There are bunch of REITS in US(slightly higher risk since they are individual companies):
1. American Capital Agency(AGNC): 16.3% yield
2. Annaly Capital Management(NLY): 13.7%
3. Cypress Sharpridge Investments(CYS): 14.7%
4. Capstead Mortgage(CMO): 12.8%
5. Hatteras Financial Corp(HTS): 12.7%

I think it is an excellent way to invest in the USA. Instead of investing directly I invested in the Dow Jones property index getting returns of 12%. What makes this a good investment is you can gear this with a 100%, intrest only,non recourse, tax deductable loan at 4% . 20 k ( 0nly perhaps 14k after tax deduction) loan can get you 100k of property, you could get this 20k returned in 2 years with a coupon payment of 8% and a CG of 4%. And you dont have hassles with RE agent, PM , tennants. vacancy , receiving payments, taxes, rates, insurance, maintenance, leasing, finance etc. A
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...pt-as-u-s-supply-of-homes-for-sale-falls.html

Not sure what I am 'allowed' to post here (opaque rules) so if the link is disallowed the article follows. Fully reposted from Bloomberg who actually encourage such things:)

BTW On another matter (sort of) entirely - Keithj and Geoffw: Progress is being made on my original bugbear. I suspect the result will be great... No thanks to you guys for deliberately deleting the most important things I think I have done and publicised in my life, but swings and roundabouts!! If nothing else you inspired me to pursue loftier goals:):)




Bidding Wars Erupt as U.S. Supply of Homes for Sale Falls
By Prashant Gopal and John Gittelsohn - Mar 28, 2012 1:14 AM ET


Matthew and Carina Hensley offered $10,000 more than the asking price for a three-bedroom house in suburban Seattle, then lost out to one of seven other bidders.
Their $270,000 proposal last month came with a family portrait and a letter introducing the couple, their eight-month- old daughter, Harper, and their desire to build a family in the Renton, Washington, house with a yard backing onto a woody hillside.
Enlarge image
Amar Shah looks through a condominium at the Ontario Road Flats condominiums in the Adams Morgan neighborhood of Washington, D.C., on March 25, 2012. Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg


Realtor Sean Aalai places an open house sign outside a five-bedroom row house for sale in the Logan Circle neighborhood of Washington, D.C. on March 25, 2012. Low prices and interest rates have driven home affordability to an all-time high, making buying a better deal than renting. Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg


Bidding wars, absent from most parts of the U.S. residential market since its peak in 2006, are erupting from Seattle and Silicon Valley to Miami and Washington, D.C. The inventory of homes hovers close to a six-year low, while an increase in jobs and record affordability are tempting more buyers. The number of contracts to buy previously owned homes jumped 14 percent in February from a year earlier, the National Association of Realtors reported yesterday.
“We understand there is going to be fierce competition in the offers made for your house but Carina and I both felt very strong about letting you know what it would mean to us if we were given the opportunity to live in your gorgeous and charming house,” wrote Matthew Hensley, 33, a credit union branch manager whose wife is a dental hygienist. Such letters from eager buyers were common during the housing boom.
While listings will probably rise as banks accelerate foreclosures and sellers gain confidence in the market, the U.S. metropolitan areas with the strongest economies may be ready to absorb the additional inventory, said Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Analytics Inc. in West Chester, Pennsylvania. Low values and interest rates have made buying a better deal than renting in 98 of the largest 100 metropolitan areas, according to Trulia Inc.
‘Better Times Ahead’
“The housing crash is finally giving way to recovery in an increasing number of markets across the country,” Zandi said in an e-mail. “The decline in unsold listings and vacant homes and the increase in rents presage better times ahead for single- family housing.”
The bidding wars seen in such places as Seattle aren’t found everywhere. In metropolitan areas including Atlanta and California’s Riverside and San Bernardino counties, housing remains weak as high unemployment and falling prices deter first-time and move-up homebuyers.
A contraction in supply hasn’t helped increase property values, which are down by a third from their July 2006 peak. Prices, hurt by discounted foreclosures and other distressed sales, will fall 2 percent more this year before rising 1.4 percent in 2013, according to a Moody’s Analytics projection.
Case-Shiller Index
Home prices dropped 3.8 percent in January from a year earlier, the S&P/Case-Shiller index of property values in 20 U.S. cities showed today. The measure is based on a three-month average, which means the January data were influenced by transactions in November and December.
A residential comeback would provide a boost to the U.S. economy. Housing will “contribute modestly” to the economy this year for the first time since 2005, according to Peter de Bruin, an economist at ABN Amro Group Economics in Amsterdam.
Rising demand for homes has cut into the supply, which is already low because many sellers -- especially those with negative equity -- are waiting for prices to increase before putting properties on the market.
Supply of Homes
About 2.43 million existing homes were listed for sale in February, the fewest for the month since 2005, the year U.S. home sales reached a record 7.08 million, the National Association of Realtors reported March 21. The number of listings rose by 100,000 from January, a seasonal bump that occurred every February since 2000 except for 2008, according to data collected by the Realtors.
The February supply of unsold homes listed for sale was down almost 50 percent from a year earlier in markets such as Miami, Phoenix and Oakland, California, according to Realtor.com, the National Association of Realtors’ official website.
The U.S. inventory of new homes stood at 150,000, a 5.8- month supply, in February, when new houses sold at an annual pace of 313,000, slower than analysts expected, the Census Bureau reported March 23.
The supply of new houses rose from 5.7 months in January “as builders put inventory in place for the spring selling season,” Stephen East, an analyst with International Strategy & Investment Group LLC in St. Charles, Missouri, wrote in a note to investors. “This is the fourth consecutive month inventory has remained below six months’ supply, which is broadly considered supply/demand equilibrium.”
The new-home supply peaked at 12.1 months in January 2009, forcing builders to book losses as the economy fell into recession. While the inventory has declined from that high, the housing market still has hurdles to overcome.
Negative Equity
One hurdle for the residential market is the more than 11 million homes that had negative equity at the end of 2011, meaning more is owed on the mortgage than the house is worth, preventing owners from trying to market their properties, according to CoreLogic.
“A big issue is underwater borrowers,” said Sam Khater, senior economist for CoreLogic Inc. (CLGX), a real estate data provider based in Santa Ana, California. “If they want to move, they’re not flexible with their price. The lowest they can sell at is their mortgage amount. So there’s price stickiness.”
In a sign that demand for new homes remains weak, orders fell 8 percent from a year earlier for the quarter ended Feb. 29 at KB Home (KBH), a Los Angeles-based builder that targets first-time buyers.
“In a recovering market, the results did an absolutely ugly U-turn,” East, the International Strategy analyst, wrote in a note after earnings were released March 23.
Lagging Indicator
The median existing-home price in the U.S. climbed 0.3 percent to $156,600 in February from a year earlier. It was the biggest year-over-year gain since July 2010, when President Barack Obama’s homebuyer tax credit temporarily boosted values.
“Prices are a lagging indicator,” Khater said in a telephone interview. “The key metric to look at are sales numbers.”
Existing homes sold at an annual pace of 4.59 million in February, up 8.8 percent from a year earlier and the busiest February since 2007, according to the National Association of Realtors. The February number was down 0.9 percent from January, when an unusually warm winter in much of the country helped increase demand, according to Paul Dales, senior U.S. economist for Capital Economics in London.
‘Demand Picks Up’
“Good weather does not generate extra housing demand -- it just brings it forward from future periods,” he wrote in a March 21 note to clients. “But the bigger point is that a genuine upward trend is under way, with sales 9 percent higher than a year ago and 13 percent above levels seen in July.”
Asking prices tend to be higher and inventory tends to be lower from March through May, while sales peak by June and inventory reaches a top in July, said Jed Kolko, chief economist for Trulia, a consumer-oriented real estate information service.
“As housing comes out of hibernation in the spring, demand picks up,” Kolko said in a telephone interview from San Francisco. “Prices peak early in the season and inventory peaks later. Buyers should be more patient, but sellers should move faster.”
Competition Increases
Agents encountered multiple bids on about half of offers in Seattle, Boston, Washington, D.C. and Oregon this year through March 15, said Tim Ellis, real estate analyst for online brokerage Redfin. In the San Francisco area, Redfin agents reported that three of four offers involved competition, he said.
One home in Palo Alto, California, received 38 offers and sold for $1.65 million, or $452,000 more than its asking price, said Ken DeLeon, a real estate broker in Silicon Valley since 2002. Another client paid $2.56 million for a home in 2007 and is listing it for $3 million, with the expectation of receiving higher offers, he said. The seller wants to use the proceeds to buy a home in Saratoga, about 18 miles southeast of Palo Alto, where the market hasn’t heated up yet, DeLeon said.
Prices are hitting all-time highs, above Palo Alto’s 2007 peak levels, in the 94301 and 94306 ZIP codes, as buyers rush to purchase in advance of an expected flood of newly minted millionaires when Facebook Inc. (FB) has its initial public offering, DeLeon said. The Menlo Park-based social-networking company filed paperwork in February for an IPO that may result in a market valuation of $75 billion to $100 billion.
‘Hottest Housing Market’
“It’s insane,” DeLeon, who brokered 101 home sales last year valued at $275 million, said in a telephone interview. “It’s probably the hottest housing market in the nation.”
In Phoenix, total listings as of March 23 were down 43 percent from a year earlier to 21,346 homes on the market, according to the Cromford Report, a Phoenix-area market research service. When pending sales are excluded, the number of available homes on the market fell 55 percent from a year ago. Distressed offerings dropped more, with the number of short-sale listings down 84 percent and bank-owned homes off 80 percent.
The average home’s time on the market fell to 90 days from 114 a year earlier, and the median sale price rose to $126,000 from $110,000, according to the Cromford Report.
Shopper Sentiment Improves
Contributing to the higher prices and faster sales pace in Phoenix were high investor-buying activity, normal homebuyers attempting to enter the market, speedier short-sale processes and an improvement in shopper sentiment, said Mike Orr, publisher of the Cromford Report. In a short sale, a property is sold for less than the amount owed on it.
“The inventory decline is accelerating,” Orr, who’s also director of the Center for Real Estate Theory and Practice at Arizona State University’s business school, said in an e-mail.
The key ingredients are in place for a housing recovery in the strongest U.S. job markets, where sales are outpacing new listings and banks have worked through the backlog of foreclosures, Douglas Duncan, Fannie Mae (FNMA)’s chief economist, said in an interview.
The unemployment rates have fallen over the past year by more than one percentage point in the Miami, Phoenix, San Francisco, Seattle and Washington, D.C., areas, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data.
Listings in Washington fell 27 percent from a year earlier in February, while the median price rose 11 percent to $398,500 and homes sold after an average of 74 days on the market, a 20 percent decline, according to Metropolitan Regional Information Systems Inc., a real estate listing service in Rockville, Maryland.
‘Pricing a Little Low’
In neighborhoods such as Capitol Hill, sellers are prompting bidding wars by asking less than they expect to receive, said Sean Aalai, an agent with Lindsay Reishman Real Estate.
“They’re purposely pricing a little low,” Aalai said in a telephone interview. “Buyers walk in and fall in love and the property starts getting bid up.”
Single-family home prices in the Miami area increased 19 percent from a year earlier to a median $175,000 in February, the third consecutive year-over-year increase, the Miami Association of Realtors reported March 21.
The number of listings fell to 5,061 in February, or about six months’ supply, down from a nine-month supply a year earlier, as foreign buyers joined out-of-staters and Floridians seeking to take advantage of low prices, said Ron Shuffield, president of Esslinger Wooten Maxwell Inc., a real estate firm in Coral Gables, Florida.
‘Best Spring Season’
“This has been the best spring season since 2005,” he said in a telephone interview. “The entire world’s buying here. They love the weather.”
The Miami-area inventory of homes selling for less than $100,000 fell to less than three months’ supply in February as investors snapped up low-cost properties and the availability of bank-owned homes shrank as lenders slowed the pace of foreclosures, Shuffield said.
Listings may swell in coming months as lenders allow more foreclosures to flow onto the market. The top U.S. mortgage servicing banks, which agreed to a $25 billion settlement over foreclosure abuses last month, slowed the pace of foreclosures as they negotiated for more than a year with state attorneys general.
Foreclosures to Come
A shadow inventory of an estimated 1.6 million homes either facing foreclosure or already repossessed by banks was being held off the market in January, little changed from a year earlier, CoreLogic reported March 21.
“As we move into what is traditionally the peak selling season for real estate, servicers will certainly be watching closely to see if now is the time to move more inventory out of the shadows,” CoreLogic Chief Executive Officer Anand Nallathambi said in a statement.
Many states that don’t require court approval for foreclosures have worked through much of their shadow inventory. In Arizona and California, where banks take less time to repossess and resell foreclosures because the process doesn’t require judicial review, 7 percent of mortgages were delinquent at least 90 days or in foreclosure in the fourth quarter, down from about 13 percent in 2009, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association.
In Florida, where the court system is clogged with home seizure cases, 18 percent of houses with a mortgage are in the foreclosure pipeline, compared with 20 percent in 2009, the Mortgage Bankers Association reported. In other states that require judicial review, such as New Jersey and New York, the number of homes in the pipeline increased.
Time to Move
“If the foreclosure process has moved efficiently so that whatever problem there was has been taken care of, you’re going to see price appreciation as long as employment is growing,” Fannie Mae’s Duncan said in an interview.
For the most part, sellers are marketing their properties because of life changes, including taking a new job, getting a divorce or having their grown children move out, Khater said.
A four-bedroom home on 1.3 acres (0.53 hectare) in the Detroit suburb of Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, went on the market in October, when the owners decided to “downsize,” said Barbara Nigro, who has lived in the house since 1976.
“Now it’s time for another family to move in and raise their children there,” she said in a telephone interview from Scottsdale, Arizona, where she and her husband own a winter home.
The Nigros dropped their asking price by $150,000 to $950,000 in January, according to the listing. An offer is pending.
Seller’s Patience
“Maybe if I kept it for two more years I’d make more money,” said Michael Nigro, 71, a retired pediatric neurologist. “I don’t have the patience for that. I don’t want the responsibility.”
Lori Bakken, the agent who represents the Hensleys, said three of four bids she submits on behalf of buyers face competition. She said she expects the dearth of supply to be temporary.
“As word gets out there that there is a lack of inventory, I believe sellers will seize on that opportunity,” Bakken said.
The Hensleys haven’t given up on living in the Renton, Washington, area, where both sets of parents live. The winning bidder offered $15,000 above the asking price and didn’t make the sale contingent on successful financing or inspection, according to Kimberly Hobbs, the Seattle broker who represented the seller.
“From this experience we learned that we have to move fast, especially if a house is nice,” Matthew Hensley said. “The competition is fierce out there.”
To contact the reporters on this story: Prashant Gopal in New York at [email protected]; John Gittelsohn in Los Angeles at [email protected]
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Daniel Taub at [email protected]
 
BTW Buster:
If you are looking REIT's (which I like BTW) and aren't hell bent on 100% ownership - have a look at Truewholesalehomes and Jay Hinrichs. There are a lot of hassles with management etc and if you don't have someone really batting for you 'over there' it gets very hard. A 'Lazy' 9%+ can work very well.
 
It's funny, just 6 weeks ago I was in Dallas, Texas, and surveyed the local market there, amongst others in a 3-week whirlwind trip.

I'm considering taking the plunge, I have heard some good things about Kansas City, but also some bad as well. Florida I wouldn't touch (for now).
 
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I think it is an excellent way to invest in the USA. Instead of investing directly I invested in the Dow Jones property index getting returns of 12%. What makes this a good investment is you can gear this with a 100%, intrest only,non recourse, tax deductable loan at 4% . 20 k ( 0nly perhaps 14k after tax deduction) loan can get you 100k of property, you could get this 20k returned in 2 years with a coupon payment of 8% and a CG of 4%. And you dont have hassles with RE agent, PM , tennants. vacancy , receiving payments, taxes, rates, insurance, maintenance, leasing, finance etc. A

Hi Buster, is the Dow Jones Property Index hedged?
 
It's funny, just 6 weeks ago I was in Dallas, Texas, and surveyed the local market there, amongst others in a 3-week whirlwind trip.

I'm considering taking the plunge, I have heard some good things about Kansas City, but also some bad as well. Florida I wouldn't touch (for now).

more research required - on this site at least.

search emma171 for a start....

lead a horticulture.....:)
 
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Just finished this whole thread.

PHEW - what a read. Certainly sounds like some good opportunities.

Couple of queries:

1/ There is discussion about the "window of opportunity". How long do we think this will remain open, and what would be the factors which would tell us the door has closed?

2/ There was note somewhere about needing "scale" ie. to buy more than one property to make it worthwhile. Is there any indication about what this number would be?

Thanks in advance.

Matto.
 
Seems like US house prices haven't bottomed yet, with the release of January's S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Index

For those thinking or who have already invested in Atlanta & Las Vegas, these cities have experienced annualised falls of 14.8% & 9.0% respectively.

Link is here

I will only speak for Atlanta, have been purchasing for the last 12 months and accumulated 8 properties to date. The amazing deals I was purchasing when I first started are very difficult to find today.

I have read various articles stating that Altanta market is still falling, however I would say from what I am experiencing I don't see this. I believe we are starting to see lots more competition with owner occupiers now jumping in.

We are also now hearing some positive news coming out of the US which is building confidence, with many stating that US housing market has reached the bottom.

We may not be too far away from seeing the prices jump another level and the yields will no longer be attractive for Aussie/Foreign investors.

MTR
 
Robert Shiller reckons that there might be a shift from living in the suburbs / exurbs to being in the city centre. As such, it's entirely possible that there will be a prolonged downturn in outlying areas.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ners-ditching-town-areas-live-big-cities.html

http://wallstreetpit.com/90589-real-chance-of-japan-like-housing-slump-shiller

The suggestion is that the young and empty nesters want to be more central, rather than out of town for the lifestyle benefits. Plus the rising cost of oil is driving up travel costs, which makes a long drive from the suburbs less attractive.

Alternatively this could be a contrarian buying signal. :)
 
Just finished this whole thread.

PHEW - what a read. Certainly sounds like some good opportunities.

Couple of queries:

1/ There is discussion about the "window of opportunity". How long do we think this will remain open, and what would be the factors which would tell us the door has closed?

2/ There was note somewhere about needing "scale" ie. to buy more than one property to make it worthwhile. Is there any indication about what this number would be?

Thanks in advance.

Matto.


Hi All,

Was hoping for any thoughts on the above couple of questions.

Also saw the below article. Anyone "on the ground" have any thoughts on this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/barry...y-to-rebound/2012/04/05/gIQAnveZzS_story.html

For a lasting recovery, we need to see houses cheap enough that they fall into “good hands” — long-term owners who can afford their mortgage payments.

Until that happens, houses will stumble along the bottom of the price range. The nation could easily see another 10 percent to the downside — assuming nothing else goes wrong.

Thanks,
 
Hi Matto

Your queries on window of opportunity.

The way I see it is depends on where your funds are coming from.

If a property in the US offers a 15% net yield this usually means that you are paying cash taking into consideration that you are financing for example a LOC in Australia you are looking at approx 7% interest therefore your yield Net is about 8%
As yields begin to drop as I believe they are in certain US markets
However a yield of 8% or a bit less on money that isn't really yours but the banks is really quite good.

On your send queries of scale I reckon to make it worthwhile a return of approx US$10000/ year with all things considered would not be unreasonable

This would need a property value $50-75K from your own folding or 2 properties totaling $100-120k with the banks folding
 
Windows of Opportunity

Haven't been on for a while but MTR points out a very good point - although I still am not seeing on the ground anything more than a foreign buying frenzy - and certainly the US consumers aren't back to buying houses yet ... which leads many of the real estate agents to be stating that we will see a drop (again, Madoff proves what crystal ball visions of perpetual growth get you and I am no Buffett or Madoff so take your pick) as investors have a VERY finite point at which the return doesn't make leaping over to the opposite side of the planet worth it...(sad because the US market will always be a great opportunity if you pick VERY carefully)

For every week I think the prices are irreversibly going up I get a week where tempting morsels seem everywhere.... and for those buying from the open market I still find most of my properties by driving to a location and just looking to see what is available in the enclave - namely there is just such a HUGE amount of back inventory to be cleared before Atlanta especially becomes truly tight in the upturn sense - but yes, I think the MOST significant factor is over here in the States, we are just SICK of this recession - and that, I believe more than anything will turn the tables.

Bargain hunting in the US market will sure as HECK seem a better real estate investment than the article that I read today where Newcastle units are fantastic investments (one or two bedrooms units mind you) at 300k or 400k

My only comparison....my little non HOA townhouse market is the best comp for the moment....I have decided my cut off will be $22k for a 2 bedder that will rent for a minimum of $650 per month. I think that nett on that ($300 for taxes per annum and $400 for insurance per annum) would be um ? 25%?

The US market will have fabulous opportunities for many years to come...

As for Vegas....? Rumours are all we have of more inventory but I suspect foreign demand will suck that up.
 
More Shiller. :D

He reckons that the trend is still downwards, and as bubbles tend to undershoot, property could get significantly cheaper in the next few years.

http://pragcap.com/robert-shiller-theres-more-downside-in-housing-prices

My brother and his wife are in LA, and trying to get established in their respective fields. If things work out for them in the next year or two then they could do really well buying. (He bought a house in the UK in 1997, near the bottom of the trough, and that worked out for him, so history might repeat itself.)

That said, having trawled Zillow a few times I've noticed that there are a lot of properties up at asking prices in excess of what they sold for at the peak of the market. For example:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6431-La-Punta-Dr-Los-Angeles-CA-90068/20804243_zpid/

(Though that one has had a 150K price cut since I first saw it.)
 
I think it is an excellent way to invest in the USA. Instead of investing directly I invested in the Dow Jones property index getting returns of 12%. What makes this a good investment is you can gear this with a 100%, intrest only,non recourse, tax deductable loan at 4% . 20 k ( 0nly perhaps 14k after tax deduction) loan can get you 100k of property, you could get this 20k returned in 2 years with a coupon payment of 8% and a CG of 4%. And you dont have hassles with RE agent, PM , tennants. vacancy , receiving payments, taxes, rates, insurance, maintenance, leasing, finance etc. A

Could someone please explain to a newb how you go about investing in the Dow Jones Property Index and how you obtain the 100%, intrest only,non recourse, tax deductable loan for it.
 
"Could someone please explain to a newb how you go about investing in the Dow Jones Property Index and how you obtain the 100%, intrest only,non recourse, tax deductable loan for it."

Me too:confused:
 
"Could someone please explain to a newb how you go about investing in the Dow Jones Property Index and how you obtain the 100%, intrest only,non recourse, tax deductable loan for it."

Me too:confused:

I think it is the product issued by JBG here http://www.jbgsi.com.au/latest-offer. Product is 4.95% 100% non-recourse loan over 3 years. Annual distributions are fixed 4.5% pa. There is a one off 2% application fee and additional annual currency hedge cost of 2%.

So in total you end up paying net around 10% over the 3 years. Then the final distribution is capped at 45%, so the most you will make will be 35% net. Thats if the RE index increases. Doesn't look like such a good deal to me.
 
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