Valuation: 'as is' Market Value vs Projected Future value after development. Dispute

My brother ordered the valuation. I haven't discussed it with the valuer because I'm fairly sure that they would brush me off and say I'm not their client so they won't speak to me. See below :)
Yes, that would be the case.

Where is your valuation?
 
Thankyou to everyone who's taken the time to answer me. I've been reading Somersoft for quite a while but it's a whole new experience being involved rather than just reading.

I actually posted here to see what my rights were plus general advice and I've received a lot of help and I appreciate that. Hopefully I can give some info myself when this is resolved and beyond.

I know the (always approximate) true value, I just needed some experienced viewpoints and suggestions about the overall situation.

The moral support was also great as these type of life events (?) pretty much suck..
 
Yes, that would be the case.

Where is your valuation?
His materialised because I got a loan, sent the contract details, he sent that we hadn't negotiated and that it was worth the highest of the real estate appraisals he'd got.

I responded with a suggestion that he get a valuation from a licensed valuer so that he could get an accurate idea on the value of the place (oh how naive I was) . He came up with this.

I have a valuation. Sorry if I sound flippant but I don't understand why you would ask me 'Where is your valuation?'. Not sure what you mean Terry?
 
His materialised because I got a loan, sent the contract details, he sent that we hadn't negotiated and that it was worth the highest of the real estate appraisals he'd got.

I responded with a suggestion that he get a valuation from a licensed valuer so that he could get an accurate idea on the value of the place (oh how naive I was) . He came up with this.

I have a valuation. Sorry if I sound flippant but I don't understand why you would ask me 'Where is your valuation?'. Not sure what you mean Terry?
I just wanted to compare what your valuation was to what his was.
 
I just wanted to compare what your valuation was to what his was.[/QUOTE\

As I said earlier, his was about 1/3 more again than mine.

If I stated the $ values, you guys would roll around laughing, unfortunately this is a lot of money to both of us.
 
Im sure we wouldnt. If the numbers are that small its probably better to cut your loses now, lawyering up over a small amount of money might cost the same amount as legal fees.

Have you done a development before? Perhaps this isnt as good a deal as you or his valuer describe anyway? Better to get the cash from a sale and start again I reckon. Or has been previously stated buy it at auction on the open market if it doesnt reach the reserve.
 
As previously said, your best option may be to auction the property. You can then bid up to your limit. If it goes for higher, then you get a larger amount than you estimated, not necessarily a bad outcome for you. You may well get it for less.

The agent and auction fees will probably be less than involving lawyers, who, if agreement cannot be reached, will probably go to auction anyway after charging hefty fees.
Marg
 
I just wanted to compare what your valuation was to what his was.[/QUOTE\

As I said earlier, his was about 1/3 more again than mine.

If I stated the $ values, you guys would roll around laughing, unfortunately this is a lot of money to both of us.
Sorry I though you were estimating and most estimate in their favour.

I think you now how to make a decision whether to:
1. acccept
2. dispute
3. fight
 
Your original post is a little bit contradictory as you have said the amount was after development but then you also said it was a net realisation. More likely would be the Gross Realisation is after development and with the deduction of costs would be their "as is" valuation.

That methodology sounds like there would be costs deducted in the valuation calculations. In fact you quote them saying "deducting all associated costs". Are not costs for subdivision/profit and risk etc deducted in the calcs? Without seeing the calcs is hard to judge for sure but there were no purchase costs and a couple of other things included in the list of assumptions you posted which may be of concern.

However, in summary, a gross realisation minus costs and Profit and Risk is an "as is" valuation.

Why are you so sure your valuation is more correct than his?

What do you believe the highest and best use of the property is if it isn't to subdivide the site?
 
What a joke

You can't get a good result out of idiot valuers who seem to have the logic of a Christmas turkey

Yet when it doesn't suit you, they valu it based on potential!!!!
The valuer will value it according to the instructions they receive from their client. If he wanted input into the way the valuation was instructed, he should have made a joint instruction.
 
Your original post is a little bit contradictory as you have said the amount was after development but then you also said it was a net realisation. More likely would be the Gross Realisation is after development and with the deduction of costs would be their "as is" valuation.

That methodology sounds like there would be costs deducted in the valuation calculations. In fact you quote them saying "deducting all associated costs". Are not costs for subdivision/profit and risk etc deducted in the calcs? Without seeing the calcs is hard to judge for sure but there were no purchase costs and a couple of other things included in the list of assumptions you posted which may be of concern.

However, in summary, a gross realisation minus costs and Profit and Risk is an "as is" valuation.

Why are you so sure your valuation is more correct than his?

What do you believe the highest and best use of the property is if it isn't to subdivide the site?
If we put it on the market tomorrow what is it likely to realise?

1. The value 'as is' ?

or 2. the value it would be worth if it was already subdivided and the existing house completely cleaned up, fixed up??
 
Sorry I though you were estimating and most estimate in their favour.

I think you now how to make a decision whether to:
1. acccept
2. dispute
3. fight
Thanks Terry - I understand that for sure.

My options then:
1. "accept" - nobody in this market would pay what he wants for the property. (If he hadn't been such an a** and if I had more money available I would have been happy to pay higher than it was worth because I used to think a lot of him. That is now out of the window.)

2. "dispute" - I do dispute it and have sent a (long and comprehensive) letter to his lawyer on 18/7 to make that clear. As of 1/8 I have heard nothing back. I'm not sure whether they are about to 'hit' me with Supreme Court action or what he is planning next.

3. "fight" - reluctantly, that is all I can do I suppose. Do you mean by this that I should instigate some action against him? He took the step of involving a lawyer and I would assume that is draining his finances whereas I am acting for myself so far.
 
Im sure we wouldnt. If the numbers are that small its probably better to cut your loses now, lawyering up over a small amount of money might cost the same amount as legal fees.

Have you done a development before? Perhaps this isnt as good a deal as you or his valuer describe anyway? Better to get the cash from a sale and start again I reckon. Or has been previously stated buy it at auction on the open market if it doesnt reach the reserve.
Yes it's definitely not as good a deal as the valuer thinks. I really want to do it here because I already own 50%. He wanted to sell out, I wanted to buy. What could go wrong :(

If I have to defend myself in the Supreme Court would I actually have to 'lawyer up' ? (again loving that term although I don't want to do it).

He's the one who is spending probably hundreds every time his lawyer acts for him or even reads my response letter to them (I've only sent one). I don't think he wants to take it to the Supreme Court if they will get it auctioned because that is going to bring in 'as is' market value when he is trying to bluff me into paying more than what it is worth.
 
As previously said, your best option may be to auction the property. You can then bid up to your limit. If it goes for higher, then you get a larger amount than you estimated, not necessarily a bad outcome for you. You may well get it for less.

The agent and auction fees will probably be less than involving lawyers, who, if agreement cannot be reached, will probably go to auction anyway after charging hefty fees.
Marg
I doubt he'd agree to an auction unless forced by the courts. He seems to be contradicting himself because he's threatened the Supreme Court (which I understand would probably end in a decree to auction via trustees) but he doesn't want the price he'd get at auction!

And I'm not the one threatening court.. so.. I suppose he either takes me to court and may get an auction, or hopes I get struck down by some debilitating illness which would prevent me waiting this out. :eek:
 
As previously said, your best option may be to auction the property. You can then bid up to your limit. If it goes for higher, then you get a larger amount than you estimated, not necessarily a bad outcome for you. You may well get it for less.

The agent and auction fees will probably be less than involving lawyers, who, if agreement cannot be reached, will probably go to auction anyway after charging hefty fees.
Marg
Hi Sharynl. I sense you are all steamed up and wanting to fight for what is right. I can understand how upset you must feel. But from my view there is a lot of good advice from Marg4000. Even if you get a win legally this wont bode well for future family relations. Ask the Rinehart family about that.
At the end of the day we have two parties squabbling about the concept of fair value...why not just let the market tell the truth as it invariably does at auction time. Just my 2c. Cheers.
 
Hi Sharynl. I sense you are all steamed up and wanting to fight for what is right. I can understand how upset you must feel. But from my view there is a lot of good advice from Marg4000. Even if you get a win legally this wont bode well for future family relations. Ask the Rinehart family about that.
At the end of the day we have two parties squabbling about the concept of fair value...why not just let the market tell the truth as it invariably does at auction time. Just my 2c. Cheers.
Thanks for your 2c, but I think what is missing is how he gets to the point of auctioning it. Most of the posts on here that talk about auction assume he will just OK the auction process. The only way I can see that he will auction it is if he takes it to the Supreme Court (as he has threatened) and that will be his unwanted side effect of that action on me.

So I don't think he would agree to an auction if I suggested that pathway because (as I've said before) this would mean an outcome of $ 'as is' or market value and he wants more than that.

There are no future family relations.
 
Why not disengage and just take your offer to purchase off the table? Won't he either come back and agree to your price, or suggest you agree to sell it on the open market (at which point you could choose to make an offer)?
 
Look at it from his POV - you're trying to screw him by getting a dev block cheaply.

What end result does he want - leave it empty, joint dev, rent it out & share costs & income or sell it & pay CGT ?

The most likely (& probably fairest) result is to auction it - either you or someone else pays the real market price, and not your hypothetical respective biased valuations.
 
I think what is missing is how he gets to the point of auctioning it. Most of the posts on here that talk about auction assume he will just OK the auction process.

The only way I can see that he will auction it is if he takes it to the Supreme Court (as he has threatened) and that will be his unwanted side effect of that action on me.

So I don't think he would agree to an auction if I suggested that pathway because (as I've said before) this would mean an outcome of $ 'as is' or market value and he wants more than that.
Can anyone answer that for me? Cheers
 
Top