Very bad experience with a property managers

[NPB]

[Things and disputes happen in the course of doing business. But when they do happen, I believe the fastest and easiest way to move forward will be to acknowledge and/or diffuse the issue (e.g. apologise) and then lay down plan forward to solve the issue. I feel that in my dealing with the company so far, issues were made much more complicated with all these useless 'games' and ego of the some of the people I dealt with. Very unpleasant. Definitely not an experience I'm keen to repeat.[/QUOTE]

Kristaje i just wanted to commend you on how you have handled yourself in such a difficult time. You did not wallow in anger and blame and were incredibly patient and understanding. You gave chance after chance and put forward the positives as well, I just wanted to say hey brilliantly you have dealt with such a tough situation.

This process would have defeated a lot of people and caused them to leave property investing forever. I hope you are rewarded with a long and successful property investing journey.

Good Luck

 

[kristaje]

If they are doing what you've said in the post, then follow it up with the OFT, unlodged bonds is a breach of the act, not issuing receipts for rent is another and the list keeps growing.

Many thanks for your advise, Scott. new local PM for Guildford property mentioned an issue with bond transfer, my understanding is she's working on this with them. Hope all sorted soon without having to involve DFT again, but I'll remember your advise if it doesn't.

Good to hear it's getting sorted finally.

Have to say I'm not surprised about the issues you're having unfortunately, consistent with my experience with the binvest services.

Thanks Starter. I'm sorry to hear that you have bad experience with binvested. may I know what the issue is, if you don't mind sharing it? Is it on the PM side or more on the buyer agency side? I never actually used binvested buyer agency, only used Nathan's services while he worked in Rightgroup. We've learned enough about sourcing deals and are doing it ourselves by the time he opens invested.

Kristaje i just wanted to commend you on how you have handled yourself in such a difficult time. You did not wallow in anger and blame and were incredibly patient and understanding. You gave chance after chance and put forward the positives as well, I just wanted to say hey brilliantly you have dealt with such a tough situation.

This process would have defeated a lot of people and caused them to leave property investing forever. I hope you are rewarded with a long and successful property investing journey.

Good Luck

Many thanks for your very kind words, NPB. Believe me, I did have times when I was so angry and frustrated along the process. And we (both my husband & I) were quite disappointed when couldn't get any response from Nathan - who we considered as a friend at the time. At the end we just do what's needed to solve the issue in any way we know of.

We were a bit at lost to start with and are extremely grateful for the brain power, help and support I received via SS. You guys rock!

 

[mccormackbarber]

I feel for you..

As a local real estate agent, I am so disappointed that there are about 100 properties being managed 'remotely" from afar.

Unfortunately we don't manage high risk properties but some agencies that could help you (that as a local agent I think are good) include Ray White, John Cook and Peter Fisher.

Don't hesitate to call us if you would like more advise.

For next time as a rule of thumb, here's the low down;

Returns of 6.5%+ = High risk, long term tenants, possible high repairs and high arrears (normally rented currently at <$300pw)

Returns of 5% -6%+ = Average risk, medium term tenants, average repairs and average arrears (normally rented currently at $330 to $400pw)

Returns of less than 5% = Low risk, short term tenants, possible low repairs and low arrears (normally rented currently at >$470pw)

If possible, buy where the majority of tenants are looking; price and area, (throughout the full year - not just where they are looking in Dec/Jan). Gas heating is REALLY important. No-one cares about cooling. Tenants HATE pools. Double garage is a big plus; everyone hates scaping frost of the windscreen in Winter (or at least two car off street parking).


Also, some agencies aren't great - speak to at least three. Talk to them about your property goals and ask them what suggestions they would have. You will every quickly get a sense of do they know what they are talking about.

Good luck,

Pete McCormack - Orange,NSW

 

[travelbug]

I was invited to the opening of the St Mary's office by Nathan.

He expressed a desire to open an agency with PM's that treated landlords as he wished to be treated.

What went wrong, I have to wonder? Perhaps his focus is elsewhere.

At the end of the day it is Nathan's responsibility. If he can't run all his ventures properly maybe it's time to rethink his priorities.

 

[rchad]

What is required to sustain a customer focus

I came across an interesting article - see below - articulating what resources/organisational enablers are required to build and sustain a customer centric PM agency

http://www.rpmonline.com.au/blogs/c...ail&utm_term=0_e1357bf67b-6d1e887945-55142269

 

[kristaje]

mccormackbarber - many thanks for all the information. it's good to have the views of a local professional from Orange.

travelbug - i was told the same too when Nathan called me to offer his management services. that's actually what's sold to us. it sounded perfect having a PM who treated landlord like that

rchard - thanks for the article. and BIG Congrats on your new business!


things moved pretty fast with the Orange property now that we changed agency back to the local shop. local PM secured access and sent me photos of the place, provided access to insurer's assessor last friday and quotes for repairs are underway. insurer told me that they've approved $5k loss of rent (max. amount unfortunately, our losses from rent is $8k+) and it should be in my account soon. we'd know more about damage assessment early to mid next week.

the photos unfortunately are not pretty: junks everywhere incl. sofa, bed, 5 not working lawnmowers, etc. stove is outside in the yard, broken windows, punch out walls, and the list goes on. with the help of DFT, I also started to receive documents from the company. unfortunately they contains no inspection report or warning letters (for late rent), which confirmed that those were never been done during management by them. I hope this won't be a problem for the insurance claim.

I have NCAT hearing mid this month and DFT's suggestion was for me to also seek compensation on losses happened in our other properties (previously managed by the company) through NCAT. I'll call NCAT on monday to find out more about what I need to do, but does anyone know if I could have this upcoming hearing expanded to cover matters on other properties, or do they need to go through the another application?

 

[monalisa]

We have a really good PM in the area, who goes above and beyond. We had some issues last year, due to our PM going on Mat leave, and this was quickly resolved.

We were also asked to move to them - firstly I thought the fees was too high - something like 7% - 8% from memory? secondly, , why would we leave our PM agency, who has a major share of the real estate sales market in the area, and provides great service; and lastly, we weren't being done a 'favour' by being asked to move.

 

[starter]

We have a really good PM in the area, who goes above and beyond. We had some issues last year, due to our PM going on Mat leave, and this was quickly resolved.

We were also asked to move to them - firstly I thought the fees was too high - something like 7% - 8% from memory? secondly, , why would we leave our PM agency, who has a major share of the real estate sales market in the area, and provides great service; and lastly, we weren't being done a 'favour' by being asked to move.

Our PM in the area is exceptional, definitely goes above and beyond.

 

[MsAli]

Our PM in the area is exceptional, definitely goes above and beyond.

We have the same PM me thinks

 

[DaveM]

What went wrong, I have to wonder? Perhaps his focus is elsewhere.

At the end of the day it is Nathan's responsibility. If he can't run all his ventures properly maybe it's time to rethink his priorities.

The impression I get is that various businesses/websites get launched, start well then get left at the wayside as the next business idea gets underway. Meanwhile the existing businesses have no focus and limp along with staff left to their own devices doing things in their own fashion.

I suspect that the business group as a whole is probably in need of a general/business manager to oversee day to day operations, leaving the ideas people to come up with new ways to generate cash.

Not all ideas people are great business leaders, and not all business leaders are great ideas people.

With PM and BA and MAPS and accounting and finance broking and interviews and marketing and a myriad of other things going on simultaneously, there just isnt time to run a multi state PM business amongst all the other noise and distractions.

 

[kristaje]

Monalisa & Starter - good to hear that you have a great PM. It's a big relief having a good PM, much less headache. I assume this is covering West Sydney / St Mary's? Or do they cover Orange NSW?

DaveM - I think you're spot on there. I got the impression that junior staff are left doing the day to day without much supervision, while the senior people busy with new ventures, resulting in existing business being neglected. from the outside looks like binvested is growing fast, but I'm not sure if their profitability actually increases with the size increase or the other way around (considering office rents, more staff numbers, etc). IMO, it may actually be better and more profitable for them to grow a bit slower but in a more stable footings.


An update on our matter....

With DFT's help, we secured from the company all documents needed by insurer (yay!). Only thing pending is for them to send me an updated NCAT order with correct loan owing amount. They lodged incorrect amount in previous hearing against ex-tenant, resulting in incorrect number in order ($4k less than what it should be!).

I have phone hearing with NCAT today (us vs them) to discuss recovery of some losses incurred by their mistakes, e.g. legal fees and interests resulting from rates not being paid, late lodgement of insurance resulting in period not covered by assessment time, etc. Total was around $4k, and they offered to pay only $2k today...yikes! I said no as I have all supporting documents for the case, so we'd have another hearing sometimes in April.

Meanwhile, our estimated total loss from the whole 6 properties is around $30k now. I hope insurance will cover more than half or so from malicious damage, as we need to to do a lot of repair to the place. should know more about it next week. Good thing is I was told that price around the area had increased quite a bit since we bought the place, so may end up selling the place well after repairs.

Such an expensive experience indeed

 

[monalisa]

Our PM manages all our Western Sydney properties between Parramatta and Penrith.

I wouldn't get them to manage an interstate one...as discussed already, local experience is necessary.

I hope your issues are resolved asap. $30k is A LOT of money! Its a shame they haven't already resolved it without you having to go through so much stress, and DFT.

 

[chilliblue]

Meanwhile, our estimated total loss from the whole 6 properties is around $30k now. I hope insurance will cover more than half or so from malicious damage, as we need to to do a lot of repair to the place. should know more about it next week. Good thing is I was told that price around the area had increased quite a bit since we bought the place, so may end up selling the place well after repairs.

Such an expensive experience indeed

Still worth getting legal advise and having their insurance cover your lossess.

 

[kristaje]

Monalisa - yes, local experience is very important. we definitely will only use local agents from now on and won't be taking any business decision based on relationship alone. lesson well learned!

Chilliblue - thanks for your advise. I did talk to a lawyer but have been putting it on hold for the moment pending Tribunal result and renovation.


An update on the matter, things are progressing well. We're lucky to have a very understanding insurance assessor, who is very patient and also supportive, which made the dealing much easier. There were many damages being missed on exit report provided by the company, more than 10k worth. Fortunately between local REA inspecting the place, myself perusing the photos and the understanding assessor, we managed to add them into the claim. We're very lucky too that insurer just changed their policy and remove some limits on what they'd pay for certain things

Reno is in progress now. All the broken windows are fixed, old carpet removed, new carpet and blinds ordered, wall patched-up, painting and kitchen is in progressed. We hope we could finish most work before Easter and finishing for a week or two after, then advertise for sale.

Neighbour living opposite the place has been really helpful with keeping an eye on the place, and even taking out the bins at one time. I should send them a couple bottle of bubbly when this is all done!


Re. matter with the company, I found out 2 weeks ago that they'd been blatantly lying to both DFT and myself! They said they couriered the file and key to local agent and provided tracking number to DFT and myself. Turned out only key was sent and no file! When followed-up PM said that file was sent in usual mail, no tracking number and would send another copy. Heard nothing since then in spite of following-up few times, so I'd be adding this as an item for our next tribunal hearing.

Another thing was no bond document was passed to new agent. Turned out they had claimed the bond and hold on to it! When confronted, PM said she'd transfer the bond at month end, but I received a statement few days ago with $0 amount on it! Another item for next tribunal hearing. Really...the company has really outdone themselves this time. Just when I think I've heard the worst...just speechless!

 

[kathryn d]

Monalisa - yes, local experience is very important. we definitely will only use local agents from now on and won't be taking any business decision based on relationship alone. lesson well learned!

...

Kristaje,

We know how you feel. You trusted these people.
Last year one our our property supers also betrayed us.
We continously find new things.....yesterday being the most recent.

 

[cu@thetop]

Monalisa - yes, local experience is very important. we definitely will only use local agents from now on and won't be taking any business decision based on relationship alone. lesson well learned!

...

Another thing was no bond document was passed to new agent. Turned out they had claimed the bond and hold on to it! When confronted, PM said she'd transfer the bond at month end, but I received a statement few days ago with $0 amount on it! Another item for next tribunal hearing. Really... xxx has really outdone themselves this time. Just when I think I've heard the worst...just speechless!

Thanks for sharing that. I'm a lawyer. If I take money out of my trust account for the wrong purposes I get prosecuted. Here in Qld bonds are held by a Government body so none of this crapola happens.
Your lawyer will need to consider these issues.
DaveM seems to have a good handle on matters whilst remaining diplomatic.

 

[kristaje]

Kristaje,
We know how you feel. You trusted these people.
Last year one our our property supers also betrayed us.
We continously find new things.....yesterday being the most recent.

Kathryn, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's sometimes hard to believe that things can go so wrong when it's related to someone we thought we knew well. I hope you could solve the problem soon.

Thanks for sharing that. I'm a lawyer. If I take money out of my trust account for the wrong purposes I get prosecuted. Here in Qld bonds are held by a Government body so none of this crapola happens.
Your lawyer will need to consider these issues.
DaveM seems to have a good handle on matters whilst remaining diplomatic.

Yes, my guess would be that it's probably prosecutable in NSW too! I was quite stunned when first heard about this, and the fact that I only found out about it when asking the local agent to claim the bond, and then confronted them. PM reason was that they retained bond for possible future bills. But management had been moved for almost 2 months now, and before that the company was not even paying our bills or forwarded them to us (which led to several penalties and letters of claim sent to us and our accountant). I really don't understand how they could go so low and thought they could get away with things like this.

I didn't know that DaveM is a lawyer. May contact him for advise. Thanks.

 

[kathryn d]

Kathryn, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's sometimes hard to believe that things can go so wrong when it's related to someone we thought we knew well. I hope you could solve the problem soon.

Thank you.
We fired them last year.
Police said there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute...

We have a great, new super now.
So, it did have a silver lining

 

[cu@thetop]

Kathryn, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's sometimes hard to believe that things can go so wrong when it's related to someone we thought we knew well. I hope you could solve the problem soon.

...

I didn't know that DaveM is a lawyer. May contact him for advise. Thanks.

Apologies- I'm not sure DaveM is a lawyer and he may be offended if you called him that. I meant to say I feel he has Nathan's personality pegged.

 

[Terry_w]

Obtaining a financial advantage by deception, crimes act

Not to mention other acts...