Wage disparity

[Corey Batt]

There was an interesting article recently about the 'sexual orientation' pay gap.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...less-but-women-earn-more-20150227-13qmxk.html

• Gay men were paid less on average than straight men.
• Lesbian women were paid more on average than straight women.

When you look at our discussion above through the eyes of 'masculine energy' and 'feminine energy' (rather than a persons sex) this also makes sense to me.

In fact, this to me is evidence it's not a sex based thing.

Exactly right. Dominant players in the workforce will always outperform submissive/passive workers. If you did a wage study on this metric, I'm sure you would find dominant/aggressive workers will achieve the highest advancement and pay grades (both male and female), leaving their counterparts in the dust.

 

[property_girl]

My observations are that lower educated women have more difficulty earning good money in 'socially acceptable' jobs, for example enrolled nurse, retail, Beauty, cleaner, hairdresser, teachers aide, restaurant work. The feedback I get is that women struggle to get more than $20 per hour in these positions.*

I have male friends and male clients who earn either close to 6 figures or in some cases over, yet these blokes don't have an academic background. For example, I guy I know works on the roads, and earned over $2000 in the past week, he knocked back shifts because he doesn't like paying tax...

Guys that hold a stop/go sign I believe have a casual rate of $40 per hour, http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...QQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFHGUE6FUT8yF558e55Tn6kNe41gg

It's well known that when women enter a field it generally gets devalued, and the pay decreases. You only have to look at the jobs that involve care (which employ mainly females) such as disability, teaching, nursing, elderly care. They are paid woefully.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...heir-male-peers-new-data-20150217-13gx8t.html

What is a third wave feminist, as opposed to a second or first wave? Does the person who mentioned that actually know?

And using Return of Kings as a source of credible info--really?

 

[balwoges]

When I was a REA in Sydney many moons ago, sales staff [men & women] got the same wages & commission - last I heard nothing has changed

 

[Corey Batt]

It's well known that when women enter a field it generally gets devalued, and the pay decreases. You only have to look at the jobs that involve care (which employ mainly females) such as disability, teaching, nursing, elderly care. They are paid woefully.

When have those professions *not* had significant female employed percentages?

Has law, accounting, physio professions value declined from increasing numbers of women being employed?

 

[property_girl]

When have those professions *not* had significant female employed percentages?
?

I didn't say they had.

 

[Corey Batt]

I didn't say they had.

Do you have any examples of professions where women have increased in employment percentages and subsequently the pay has decreased?

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

I've had the gender pay gap thing parrotted to me by feminist friends (one in particular), but when pressed to provide examples where the genders do the same role but are paid less, nothing.

I think it's most likely because men are more likely to go further in their professional careers because they don't take as much time off for families, and tend to do longer hours because they aren't the primary givers. This means they get promoted further and paid more.

Just my experience. If others have seen different I'd be interested to hear about it.

 

[property_girl]

Do you have any examples of professions where women have increased in employment percentages and subsequently the pay has decreased?

I don't really feel like trying to talk you into something when I know that your mind won't be changed no matter what evidence you are presented with. Look it up; it's all out there if you want to educate yourself.

 

[BayView]

I think it's most likely because men are more likely to go further in their professional careers because they don't take as much time off for families, and tend to do longer hours because they aren't the primary givers. This means they get promoted further and paid more.

But that's the point - women are not getting paid less now.

Mind you; I would wager that there are many instances where if a woman and man are say; 25 years old, identical in experience and qualifications applying for the same job, the guy might get it because he is less likely to be taking time off for maternity leave.

Is that fair?

Possibly not, but at the end of the day the owner of the business is there to make money, and a large cost of a business is the wages, and he/she is free to employ who they like towards that end.

Providing a replacement for a maternity leave situation might not be easy, possibly the woman might need more flexible hours due to kids...

But the pay rate for each applicant is still the same going in.

 

[D.T.]

Look it up; it's all out there if you want to educate yourself.

No there isn't. There's no evidence of wage disparity in either direction. If there was, people would be hiring whichever gender was cheaper for whatever particular role they had available.

There are many women on this forum.

Yep. And they're doing great. Good on them
Or are you assuming there's a disparity in what they can achieve too?

 

[Corey Batt]

I don't really feel like trying to talk you into something when I know that your mind won't be changed no matter what evidence you are presented with. Look it up; it's all out there if you want to educate yourself.

I wouldn't necessarily say that it requires you to "talk me into anything" - but instead substantiate some comments you make as well known facts. I'm certainly not scared of asking such neutral benign questions.

For fun, during my time in university doing my basket weaving degree I actually did take a gender studies course or two.

I think as a whole that the women in my life that I know personally and come across day to day are passionate, hard working, able and not willing to allow themselves to be devalued in the workplace or society as a whole. To suggest that the mere presence of the female sex in a professional means that society devalues it without being willing to show a *single* example is causing the real harm to Womens Right's within the workplace and the historical gains that feminism has made. Continually building these psychological barriers stops individuals from achieving their full potential - regardless of sex, religion, race, (dis)ability or any other attribute.

So as I was saying - for something which you purport as general knowledge, what are some examples of this happening? This isn't just for my own interest, but for the debate and posterity in general.

 

[beachgurl]

When I was a junior in the legal game there were 4 of us with the same level of qualification and no more than 6 months experience over each other. There was a 15k pay difference between the highest and lowest earners. One had even managed to score his own car spot while the rest of us had to park a few blocks away. Most in the legal game don't consider having kids til late 30s-early 40s, so there shouldn't be wage differences for many years after graduation. It's all very secret squirrel on wages. We were spoken to by the bosses for comparing wages. At another firm I worked at, two people with the same quals and experience had a 50k Salary difference. Usually the men have the confidence to ask for more money and get it. I think this is one archaic industry where men do generally get more money as they will not be popping out babies.

 

[property_girl]

No there isn't. .

No, there wouldn't be for you; you're a man.

 

[property_girl]

... without being willing to show a *single* example is causing the real harm to Womens Right's within the workplace and the historical gains that feminism has made. .

lol, I doubt very much that, one, I would be causing 'real harm' to anyone or anything by telling you to do your own research.

 

[property_girl]

I would go as far to say that people who are pushing this agenda (third wave feminists) are not really seeking equality, they are seeking special treatment over and above equality.

.

I have found out that someone called Anita Sarkeesian is referred to as a ' third wave feminist' because she believes in equality of the sexes.

 

[TMNT]

I don't really feel like trying to talk you into something when I know that your mind won't be changed no matter what evidence you are presented with. Look it up; it's all out there if you want to educate yourself.

.

typical feminist response

I make bold statements but have nothing to prove it other then emotional garbage
when asked for examples, I cant provide them so I will either yell abuse or resort to condescending retorts that have no real comeback such as 'im older' or 'youve never been in my situation'
Ill ignore all further forms of requests for evidence in the rest of the conversation/thread　and/or not comment in the rest of the thread because they have lost credibility if they had any in the first place

 

[TMNT]

When I was a junior in the legal game there were 4 of us with the same level of qualification and no more than 6 months experience over each other. There was a 15k pay difference between the highest and lowest earners. One had even managed to score his own car spot while the rest of us had to park a few blocks away. Most in the legal game don't consider having kids til late 30s-early 40s, so there shouldn't be wage differences for many years after graduation. It's all very secret squirrel on wages. We were spoken to by the bosses for comparing wages. At another firm I worked at, two people with the same quals and experience had a 50k Salary difference. Usually the men have the confidence to ask for more money and get it. I think this is one archaic industry where men do generally get more money as they will not be popping out babies.

although ,im sure all of that is either all untrue or very exagerated by about a factor of 20, times have changed since 50 years ago...... times are very different now

Corey asked a simple question if you can show any examples of professions where women have increased in employment percentages and subsequently the pay has decreased. And then you escalate it to rape?

see my previous post
http://somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1283599&postcount=56

 

[TMNT]

dbl........

 

[beachgurl]

although ,im sure all of that is either all untrue or very exagerated by about a factor of 20, times have changed since 50 years ago...... times are very different now


You tell one woman she has no basis for an argument as she cannot provide evidence and now I provide evidence and you say it is untrue or exaggerated. It seems every gender-based topic on SS turns to crap when particular men have preconceived ideas and turn it into a verbal woman-bashing exercise.

I don't come to Somersoft to save the women, I'm just interested in the property investing conversation. But it does give me the irrits when my comments on life experiences are deemed to be fabrications or rubbished.

No need to respond, I won't be coming back onto this thread to read further as I'm sure the responses from the usual few wont be pretty.

 

[Bhp19]

Usually the men have the confidence to ask for more money and get it.

Any chance this could be the reason why they were paid more?