Wage disparity

When I was a junior in the legal game there were 4 of us with the same level of qualification and no more than 6 months experience over each other. There was a 15k pay difference between the highest and lowest earners. One had even managed to score his own car spot while the rest of us had to park a few blocks away. Most in the legal game don't consider having kids til late 30s-early 40s, so there shouldn't be wage differences for many years after graduation. It's all very secret squirrel on wages. We were spoken to by the bosses for comparing wages. At another firm I worked at, two people with the same quals and experience had a 50k Salary difference. Usually the men have the confidence to ask for more money and get it. I think this is one archaic industry where men do generally get more money as they will not be popping out babies.

Was there a difference in work they brought through the door? My guys and girls get the same each year from 1-3 years post admission experience. After that there can be a large difference due to what they bring in.
 
Property girl - I am a woman and I disagree with you on so many levels.

There is no wage disparity - a woman performing the same job gets the same pay as a man.

If a woman chooses to raise a family or enter a lower paying career, that is her choice.

Men can make the same choice... whether they do or dont is up to them.
 
I don't come to Somersoft to save the women, I'm just interested in the property investing conversation. But it does give me the irrits when my comments on life experiences are deemed to be fabrications or rubbished.

No need to respond, I won't be coming back onto this thread to read further as I'm sure the responses from the usual few wont be pretty.

thats ok, I didnt expect any or much comment from you now, as per my previous post

http://somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1283599&postcount=56

off you go!

Property girl - I am a woman and I disagree with you on so many levels.

There is no wage disparity - a woman performing the same job gets the same pay as a man.

If a woman chooses to raise a family or enter a lower paying career, that is her choice.

Men can make the same choice... whether they do or dont is up to them.


exactly, anyone who doesnt have a negative clouded agenda filled glasses on, can see it,

the simple and yet logical rule which applies to men and women are,

higher paying jobs generally require more education or expereince or risk or speciality or less job security

lower paying jobs are usually lower qualified, less experienced

you take time off to have kids, go for a holiday, change careers,
your career, earnings, may or will suffer

its not rocket science, in fact my 9 yr old god daughter would even understand that.
 
I'm not any of your M acronyms PG, but I would appreciate a real life example of one gender earning less than another in any industry.

How about yourself, do you get more or less than any of your work mates?
 
Such a predictable yawn this thread has become... the original post was referring to a discussion of why women, as a demographic, earn less than men, and points out that the gap is widening.

To say, for example, that a female graduate engineer earns as much as male graduate engineer misses the point. The research is looking at women as a demographic, versus men as a demographic, and shows the the disparity in average full time wages between these 2 demographics is increasing.

Why do you think this is? It it because of benign reasons? Is it a social problem? How will the gender gap in pay affect us in the longer term given the constant social changes that we've been experiencing?
 
Why do you think this is? It it because of benign reasons? Is it a social problem? How will the gender gap in pay affect us in the longer term given the constant social changes that we've been experiencing?

It's because people make choices that suit them. There is no problem.
 
who would have thought it be so simple?
 

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Property girl - I am a woman and I disagree with you on so many levels.

There is no wage disparity - a woman performing the same job gets the same pay as a man.

If a woman chooses to raise a family or enter a lower paying career, that is her choice.

Men can make the same choice... whether they do or dont is up to them.

I'm with Nemo on this one ... I actually found Property Girls comments offensive as a woman.

I have never come across an occupation where "given the exact same circumstances" men have been paid more than women ... actually I closely know at least three women who earn significantly more than their male partners.

It comes down to choice.
 
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I'm with Nemo on this one ... I actually found Property Girls comments offensive as a woman.

I have never come across an occupation where "given the exact same circumstances" men have been paid more than women ... actually I closely know at least three women who earn significantly more than their male partners.

It comes down to choice.

It's not a subjective opinion. Across the board, women are paid less than men. You can argue about why or how, but not about the fact. You can reasonably debate whether it's because of time taken off work; whether it's about discrimination; whether someone's work is valued more than someone else's. It's not me that's saying women get paid less than men; it's the studies. I have not stated I get or got paid less than a man.
 
It's not a subjective opinion. Across the board, women are paid less than men. You can argue about why or how, but not about the fact. You can reasonably debate whether it's because of time taken off work; whether it's about discrimination; whether someone's work is valued more than someone else's. It's not me that's saying women get paid less than men; it's the studies. I have not stated I get or got paid less than a man.

The fact is women are paid the same as men for doing the same job.
You've been challenged dozens of times to give 1 (one) example but you cannot. If it was 'across the board' then surely you could name one? The reason you can't is because they don't exist.

Even Forbes, your preferred source of 'legit' info, have an article written by a woman who says equal pay is a myth.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/
 
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It's not a subjective opinion. Across the board, women are paid less than men.

Across the board?
I can name an example where women get paid more than men. Porn actors/actresses.

Please name 1 example where men get paid more than women like you've been asked 100 times in this thread.
 
It's not a subjective opinion. Across the board, women are paid less than men. You can argue about why or how, but not about the fact. You can reasonably debate whether it's because of time taken off work; whether it's about discrimination; whether someone's work is valued more than someone else's. It's not me that's saying women get paid less than men; it's the studies. I have not stated I get or got paid less than a man.

If you take all women's pay - and all men's pay - across every industry - then yes.

But this has been covered - men tend to be in higher paying roles due to their drive, circumstances and choices.

Personally I'd rather be yapping on SS - in between shovelling 3 cubic metres of mushroom compost into my new vege bed - than getting up at 5am to work in a coal washery like hubby ... and, with 7 years of Metalurgy study whilst working full time, he has worked full time since he was 18 ... personally I "chose" to stop PAYE work when we had kids and I now do the "around the farm" work ... that's why he gets paid more than me.

18 months ago his work decided to employ more woman ... 18 months they searched internationally for a qualified female (a role many men would've given their eye teeth for) before finding one that fit the criteria ... and even then it was a stretch ... a well paying engineering career that women obviously choose not to go into.
 
The fact is that women are paid the same as men for doing the same job. You've been challenged dozens of times to give 1 (one) example but you cannot. If it was 'across the board' then surely you could name one? The reason you can't is because they don't exist.

Even Forbes, your preferred source of 'legit' info, have an article written by a woman who says equal pay is a myth.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/

Property girl is spot on. I linked an article earlier in this thread that have examples of industries where men are paid more than women. Was the graph too complicated?
 
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It's not a subjective opinion. Across the board, women are paid less than men. You can argue about why or how, but not about the fact. .

You can look at some levels of the CEO'S of various listed companies Australia wide,in different levels of academia without too much clarity
and those Ladies are highly paided,or look in the back of any local paper sometimes you have too pages for prostitution..
 
Property girl is spot on. I linked an article earlier in this thread that have examples of industries where men are paid more than women. Was the graph too complicated for you?

No she's not spot on. Do you understand what "across the board" means???! Or too complicated for you to understand?
 
To say, for example, that a female graduate engineer earns as much as male graduate engineer misses the point. The research is looking at women as a demographic, versus men as a demographic, and shows the the disparity in average full time wages between these 2 demographics is increasing.

Why do you think this is? It it because of benign reasons? Is it a social problem? How will the gender gap in pay affect us in the longer term given the constant social changes that we've been experiencing?

Ahhh... a breath of fresh air. Someone who is willing to continue a logical discussion without resorting to personal attacks and playing the victim card (even though PG seems to have agreed that she gets paid the same as men at her work?).

So, how would one go about addressing this 'gender wide' pay gap given the consensus seems to be that it exists because:

  • Men work harder/dirtier/more dangerous jobs than women
  • Men work longer hours than women on average (7.75 hours vs 8.14 hours)
  • Women take more time away from their careers to have a family
  • and so on that the masculine inside them drives them to do (see above)

If you still want to have equal rights between men and women then the only way I can see this reducing is if women in force choose to work longer, more dangerous jobs, not have a family etc (i.e. do the opposite of the above). Much like lesbian women and many high paid women I'm sure have done.

The only other way to reduce the gap without doing these things would be to apply benefits to women and not men, which would be special treatment, not equality.

I can't think of any other way, although would love to hear others ideas (i.e. our are maternal/parental leave systems good enough?)

The point is there is no victim here, no oppression, no big boardroom table of old white guys sitting around scheming how to pay women less - the choice and opportunity is there for those who want to make it.

Given that biologically only women can have kids (and are probably more nurturing/motherly than men are when it comes to raising those kids - the feminine inside them gives them this advantage, and no doubt a higher EQ), maybe that's why men and women need to form a team and work together, each providing financial and emotional support to each other (and contribute as best they can to the relationship in a wide variety of other ways), regardless of whichever sex they are or which one has more masculine energy or more feminine energy (in the case of gay couples).

myth-busted.jpg
 
  • Men work harder/dirtier/more dangerous jobs than women
  • Men work longer hours than women on average (7.75 hours vs 8.14 hours)
  • Women take more time away from their careers to have a family
  • and so on (see above)

I don't agree with the first point at all. Not enough men work genuinely risky/dangerous jobs that it's going to significantly inflate their earnings. I'd wager than most men and most women face similar levels of risk at work. Sure, more men work in dangerous jobs than women but these jobs are so small in number it's pretty much irrelevant.

The hours issue is also debateable as this is dependent on industry. There are plenty of industries where overtime (for full-time workers) is unpaid with time off given in lieu. Therefore, an extra half hour of work won't change anything overall. Obviously, this differs for casual and part-time workers who actually get paid per hour as opposed to a yearly salary but that's another discussion.

I can't think of any other way, although would love to hear others ideas (i.e. our are maternal/parental leave systems good enough?)

The point is there is no victim here, no oppression, no big boardroom table of old white guys sitting around scheming how to pay women less - the choice and opportunity is there for those who want to make it.

Some of my ideas:
- Improve the way STEM areas are taught in schools and encourage girls to explore these fields from a young age. Similarly, encourage boys to explore "non traditional" fields when they're young as well. Further to this, I think financial education should also become a more primary part of the curriculum.
- More emphasis on affordable and good quality childcare.
- Change the maternity and paternity leave system so that a portion of the total leave can only be used by the other partner - say one-third of the total. They have this is some European countries. If they don't use it, this portion of the leave should be forfeited. This would give both partners a significant period of time in a primary caring role.
- As an extension of the above, a more equitable distribution of child rearing and domestic tasks so that women who have children have as much opportunities in the workforce as men with children currently do. It's doesn't seem to be anywhere near as impactful on fathers as it is on mothers. I'm not sure what practical measures could be implemented to do this though.
 
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