We really do view situations differently

[jingo]

I have been thinking lately about the vastly different perspective between the views of investors and non-investors.

Visits to this site by individuals who run their own moralistic crusade on property investors in particular, demonstrate the misconceptions investors are faced with on a regular basis.

To state that one has provided a 'fully paid off home' for their family makes many people feel proud of their achievement. One can understand this sentiment as, usually, the way to achieve a debt free home is to put the fruits of one's after tax JOB income into the mortgage until it is paid off. Most people do this over a life time of work.

Smug attitudes abound in society. Some people feel proud that they have provided for their family in this manner, and then look to 'help' other less unfortunate people. Connecting the number of homeless people to the number of empty dwellings in Australia floats some people's boats. Naturally, the next step is to look for others to 'blame' for this situation. Property investors are a good target.

We see this time and again on this site. One troll, after another. Each with a similar message and their own particular brand of anti investment crusade.

What separates investors from non-investors is choice/possibilities and options. Having investments provides so many options/opportunities that enable investors to view the world in a different light.

Investments open a world of travel, the ability to help family, friends, disadvantaged people. The ability to decide where you want to live and the type of dwelling. Whether to rent, or upgrade your home. Opportunities to send your children to a private school (without needing to draw up the mortgage). The ability to provide children/grand children with deposits for their own homes - or indeed, give them their first house. These possibilities are not open to all.

The choice is yours. Invest, or not, but always hold yourself accountable for the choices you make.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

I guess i am alot more hardnosed.
I believe that capitalism improves the average living standards of the average person OVER TIME.

Just look at China 60 years ago when it was lurching through various communist programs such as the great leap forward, and compare it to today for the average person.

A country doesnt improve the average living standards by just taking away and redistributing. It has to take a portion of a growing pie and redistribute it (not necessarily direct distribution, but through various social agenda's of one form or another).

So in order to increase the revenue from distribution, the country must also focus on growing the total pie.

So thats the macro view.

From the microview, i just look at my own activities. If i engage in capitalist activities, then if i am successful, then the government takes a portion through taxation revenue.

For those that argue that residential investing involves negative taxation receipts, i would argue that they should look at the long term.
In the long term, as those residential properties appreciate, there will be at some future point in time a capital gains tax liability.

So essentially, government taxation revenue is delayed, it is not permanently foregone.

 

[Doovalacky]

Even simpler. We "save" others spend.

 

[dan75]

Time perspective is a major factor in people's risk profile. To some, taking on hundreds of thousands, or millions of dollars in debt seems like an overwhelming and unimaginable thought, but when you put things logically and add time to it, it's easier than some people make it out to be.

Discipline, patience and a 'plan B' when things go pear shaped should help minimize any stress. This of course also involves removing emotion out of the game, as hard as it may sound, and make it work like a machine.

 

[BayView]

Connecting the number of homeless people to the number of empty dwellings in Australia floats some people's boats. Naturally, the next step is to look for others to 'blame' for this situation. Property investors are a good target.

The biggest laugh about this mindset is that most of the vacant houses in the land are holiday homes; hardly ever used by their owners.

There are 4 houses in our street (there are only 8 in the street total) that would have a combined occupancy per year of about 30 days I reckon.

The other thing that gets overlooked by the Trolls is that these holiday houses are not where the majority of (homeless) people want to live anyway.

The Trolls never seem to blame these folk - testament to how naive they are.

While on the other hand; investors are ALWAYS wanting their properties to be full of people (tenants).

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

It's far easier to criticise others, especially when they are trying to do more than you, than to take meaningful action in support of your cause.

This doesn't just apply to investing, but to a whole range of things.

I have a rule which simply is that the opinion of the person standing by doing nothing is worth less than the opinion of the person who has (or is actively trying to) improve a situation or positively affect an issue. In other words, if you're standing on the sidelines whinging with no runs on the board, your opinion is meaningless and will be discarded as worthless.

 

[Belbo]

It's far easier to criticise others, especially when they are trying to do more than you, than to take meaningful action in support of your cause.

This doesn't just apply to investing, but to a whole range of things.

I have a rule which simply is that the opinion of the person standing by doing nothing is worth less than the opinion of the person who has (or is actively trying to) improve a situation or positively affect an issue. In other words, if you're standing on the sidelines whinging with no runs on the board, your opinion is meaningless and will be discarded as worthless.

As a wise person once taught me in relation to making business decisions, "The only person who doesn't make any mistakes is the person who doesn't do anything."

 

[Rolf Latham]

As a wise person once taught me in relation to making business decisions, "The only person who doesn't make any mistakes is the person who doesn't do anything."

but .....................doing nothing.................is making a decision too. and it usually carries more risk than stepping out !


ta

rolf

 

[Belbo]

but .....................doing nothing.................is making a decision too. and it usually carries more risk than stepping out !

ta

rolf

Indeed! Robert Kyosaki couldn't have put it better. No action ensures no change, but if the environment won't stop changing, you are likely to end up toast.

But my friend's aphorism adds something else though: You might not get it right every time, but as long as you never give up trying to adapt by making decisions in uncertain situations, chances are you'll ultimately succeed.

It doesn't take any great courage to never step out on a limb. Nor too does taking a chance make you a fool.

 

[our obsession]

I have been thinking lately about the vastly different perspective between the views of investors and non-investors.

Visits to this site by individuals who run their own moralistic crusade...

Smug attitudes abound in society.

Naturally, the next step is to look for others to 'blame' for this situation. The choice is yours.....but always hold yourself accountable for the choices you make.

Might be of interest to some:

Excerpt only-

"Social psychologists Tavris and Aronson, each of whom has published other works, here tackle "the inner workings of self-justification," the mental gymnastics that allow us to bemoan the mote in our brother''s eye while remaining blissfully unaware of the beam in our own. Their prose is lively, their research is admirable and their examples of our arrogant follies are entertaining and instructive."



Why do people dodge responsibility when things fall apart? Why the parade of public figures unable to own up when they screw up? Why the endless marital quarrels over who is right? Why can we see hypocrisy in others but not in ourselves? Are we all liars? Or do we really believe the stories we tell?

Renowned social psychologists Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson take a compelling look into how the brain is wired for self-justification. When we make mistakes, we must calm the cognitive dissonance that jars our feelings of self-worth. And so we create fictions that absolve us of responsibility, restoring our belief that we are smart, moral, and right—a belief that often keeps us on a course that is dumb, immoral, and wrong.

Backed by years of research and delivered in lively, energetic prose, Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me) offers a fascinating explanation of self-deception—how it works, the harm it can cause, and how we can overcome it.

Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts ..

(Tavris + Aronson)




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[lizzie]

Indeed! Robert Kyosaki couldn't have put it better. No action ensures no change, but if the environment won't stop changing, you are likely to end up toast.

Robert K likened it to a bucket of crabs ... even if the rim is low enough that some crabs could climb out, the other crabs will attempt to pull the top ones back down to their level.

I like that analogy as it's true and visual

 

[Rockstar]

It doesn't take any great courage to never step out on a limb.

So the opposite nature of courage is conformity!

 

[BayView]

Robert K likened it to a bucket of crabs ... even if the rim is low enough that some crabs could climb out, the other crabs will attempt to pull the top ones back down to their level.

I like that analogy as it's true and visual

So now we have...
Sheep,
Lemmings,
Penguins,
Crabs.

 

[lizzie]

Could probably add the wildebeast that insist on jumping in that crocodile infested river ... and if you don't jump the guys behind you push you in.

 

[Telejazzer]

I remember in one of a trading book (I know, I know this is a property forum but read on) that I read that goes something like a guy spreading a rumour that a certain stock is going up. He wanted the stock to go up because he wanted to sell.

Once he sold the stock, he then started a rumour that would make the stock go down so he can buy it back cheap, so the cycle goes.

My point is, what are the real motivation of the posters? The D&Gs? The overly optimistic?

Who knows?

 

[Dazz]

Could probably add the wildebeast that insist on jumping in that crocodile infested river ... and if you don't jump the guys behind you push you in.

Sort of Lizzie - the wildebeast have just as much a need to cross that river as we do in securing our financial future.

On the riverbank where they are all safely standing, there is a dustbowl behind them, where certain death awaits them if they choose to stay safe.

Ahead of them is a big bad nasty river, full of massive hungry crocs - it's harvest time for them....bit like Banks really !!

.....but on the other side, is lush green feed that will keep them alive to propogate their genes and continue the cycle of life.

The vast majority get through, yes there are a few taken, but if you put your crocodile hat on for a moment, those poor buggers will all starve and die if none get taken.

Take comfort Lizzie, if we were wildebeast on the riverbank, I'd have absolutely no hesitation whatsoever in pushing you in first, to clear the path for the rest of the herd and strike a blow for the 'greater good'.

 

[Sheryn]

....... a guy spreading a rumour that a certain stock is going up. He wanted the stock to go up because he wanted to sell.

Once he sold the stock, he then started a rumour that would make the stock go down so he can buy it back cheap, so the cycle goes.

And you take that one step further and get the media to do the spreading of the rumour.


Regards
Sheryn

 

[Deltaberry]

I guess i am alot more hardnosed.
I believe that capitalism improves the average living standards of the average person OVER TIME.

Just look at China 60 years ago when it was lurching through various communist programs such as the great leap forward, and compare it to today for the average person.

A country doesnt improve the average living standards by just taking away and redistributing. It has to take a portion of a growing pie and redistribute it (not necessarily direct distribution, but through various social agenda's of one form or another).

So in order to increase the revenue from distribution, the country must also focus on growing the total pie.

So thats the macro view.

From the microview, i just look at my own activities. If i engage in capitalist activities, then if i am successful, then the government takes a portion through taxation revenue.

For those that argue that residential investing involves negative taxation receipts, i would argue that they should look at the long term.
In the long term, as those residential properties appreciate, there will be at some future point in time a capital gains tax liability.

So essentially, government taxation revenue is delayed, it is not permanently foregone.

A country improves itself through innovation and creating something out of nothing.

In the process of this, certain free riding opportunities will arise such as stock picking and property investing - and some people do it very well and I certainly have come across people who make well in to 8 digits a year doing things like this. But I'm not sold that the majority of these fund managers or property investors (note not developers) add much value to society - they probably do in the sense of filtering money back to society through employing people or consumer spending. But that's probably about it.

True evolution happens to a society when somebody invents how to convert sound in to energy or invents a vacuum cleaner that vacuums the bit you can't reach between your mattress.

 

[BayView]

if you're standing on the sidelines whinging with no runs on the board, your opinion is meaningless and will be discarded as worthless.

LOL!

As I read this I had a sudden picture jump into my head of all the various AFL football fans I've seen over the years who are screaming obscenities and insults at the players on the ground who are performing at a level below what they (the fans) would like.

Many of whom have a beach ball stuffed up their shirt.

 

[random]

I'm not a heavy duty investor, 5 or 6 investment over the years but the way I view property compared to a home buyer still flabbergasts me .
I can't for the life of me understand why 99% of home buyers walk just because a place needs a septic , or 3 mths work to clear the garden or block up, deck's falling down or something, the back doors rotted, "really" small things that have a house sitting there at 1/2 price when all they have to do is spend 10 grand or do a few mths work to cut their mortgage in 1/2 and hey - they'll have equity, lots of it.
But no they walk away quivering like babies, I buy it and ride those things all the way to the bank.
3 or 4 of the houses I've bought have been those scenarios but hey literally 1/2 price . The last one we've just bought ,same again . This one's for ourselves but it already looks a million bucks we've only had it 6 wks. wait a few yrs. I mean this place was scary but anyone could see it was purely cosmetic, so much potential, people are already saying gees wish I bought it.
Even if they aren't interested in a home as also an investment it's still all good, they can't go wrong to buy it in the same way but they don't see it , very weird but hey lucky for us they don't I spose .

The d&g , I view it more as just balanced perspectives coming in and out. I'm not only very suspicious of the OZ housing market right now myself but where ever it's going , we need to be aware of both sides of the equation so if that means banging heads and going round and around to try figuring that out, I'm all for it.
Rose colored glasses will only bring you undone in property .

Cheers