what do you think?

Hi All,

Im very interested to see your perspectives on this.

My siblings and I (three of us) have been offered a considerate deal my parents.

I will try and be as detailed as possible;


• There was an offer made to us by my parents to purchase one of their investment properties well below cost price.
• The house is currently valued at $420,000 which has $100,000 owing to it.
• The deal is that the three of us give a total of $240,000 to my parents.
• The house will go on rent.
• The rent collected will go into my parents $100,000 loan to pay this off slowly (around 8 years).
• We will not collect any rent to service the 240k loan.
• In regard to the 240k loan. We will pay the interest of 500 dollars each (estimate) pcm to hold on this house for future growth.
• My parents have indicated that there will be some additional funds in the rent so this will be used to pay the rates, water services and any other expenses.
• When the $100,000 is paid off the house title will be transferred into our names and we can start collecting rent for this property.
• The 240k loan will be secured against this properly so total owing will be $340,000 current equity will be around $80,000
• We will be able to ‘tap’ into the equity as required.
• We plan to sell the house after 8 years
• This will be well documented with required agents.

I guess the main reasoning behind this deal would be that my parents would like to assist in building there children’s wealth.
If they were to just to sell the property through normal methods let’s say @ $400,000 I think this would be the very rough break down;

400,000 – sale price
100,000 – pay off existing loan
40,000 – CGT for property, has been rented for 9 years is only a estimate figure
10,000 – agent fees & misc

= 250,000

Its visible that they will still be losing out on the deal but not as much as I anticipated (perhaps?).

My other concern is my sister runs her own business and my brother is still at university. Although they are both able to afford 500 pcm they will not qualify for finance.

So this leaves me stuck with the bourdon of putting the finance in my name and I guess a small risk of relying on serviceability from them. This will then slow down any other plans I may have down the pipeline. So my point here would be that I will negotiate with them that perhaps I have equity rights to this property for a period of time to assist with my other projects simply to balance this inconvenience.


What do you think….. good idea? bad idea? your views?

Thanks in advance.
 
Hi jlamba,

You might also check with your accountant, make sure the ATO won't view this as your parents' attempt to evade CGT...
 
You know your relationship with your family better than anyone else - and those risks have been done to death - but it still sounds risky to me.

Some other considerations...
  • Stamp duty will need to paid when the transfer occurs at market value
  • How will you and your siblings get finance if you have no security? It sounds like the property will only transfer to you once your parents' $100k loan is paid down.
  • You've already recognised the risk of having finance in your own name only, when there are others who are expected to contribute to the repayments.
  • Let's say you did all 3 get finance. This may cramp your own future finance applications as you'll each be assessed as owing the total amount (joint and several)

ashalim makes a good point re ATO and CGT. If the property is planned on being sold in 8 years, why wouldn't your parents simply split the proceeds 3 ways with ya'll instead of the complications being proposed? The ATO would probably consider that question, too. If the property is transferred at below market value, it's possible that it will be assessed as being transferred at market value anyway, and there will be no reduction in CGT - penalties may even apply.*

Why wouldn't you kids simply help pay off the $100k now, if that's a focus for your parents? And it gives you a (non-binding) interest in the property - if you trust your parents to live up to their word.

Actually, the more I read over this proposal, the more it just "doesn't feel right" - sorry! :eek: Maybe there is more explanation that I didn't follow? Why do your parents want the $240k, and why should it come from you and your siblings?

*That's all theoretical for me, as I've not had to deal with the ATO for this types of instances! :p
 
If you wanted to do this, then buy the property off your parents now, transfer the title now, and pay off their loan now, with a new shared loan that you set up.

Waiting in future will only mean more CGT and Stamp duty later on.

The most important thing is to have a clearly defined exit strategy.

As legally binding as possible.

Good luck.
 
Hi wobbycarly,

Thank you very much for your post.

I clearly need to speak to my accountant regarding stamp duty and CGT. I was under the impression that the house could be given as a gift to avoid double stamp duty, at this stage I have no backing on this and could be completely incorrect.

I will have my own security and I guess we can use the existing equity in the house to assist with the finance.
Your correct the house will only be transferred when the $100k loan is paid down. Hopefully buy this stage we have refinanced and all three names are on the 240k loan.

I now see the finance implications for the other parties involved from the start.

My parents are slowly taking off their long term investment hats and are looking to retire. They wanted to use the 240k funds to purchase a holiday house overseas. I guess the rest of the family could make good use of this too!
This proposal will give them the ability to execute their goals whilst giving us kids the ability to work on ours. So I think that is very selfless of them because they clearly don’t need us.
 
You can only avoid stamp duty on transfers in VIC in the following circumstances:
  • Transfer between spouses
  • Death of an owner when the property is owned as joint tenants
  • The property is transferred as instructions in a will (death)
  • Stamp duty is minimised on OTP purchases (land value only)

Grrr. :mad: Stupid govt websites - I tried to find an official reference but can't find this detail... but have a look at:
http://www.sro.vic.gov.au/sro/SROna...08058E7-42452633654D5A7FCA2575A100441FD4?open

http://www.sro.vic.gov.au/sro/SROna...575B40013178818E490D796850F8ECA2575C1008187C7

http://www.vic.gov.au/property-planning/real-estate-property/stamp-duty-land-tax.html (detail under last link on this page)
 
Hi Tobe,

I guess we could purchase the property @ 240k and take on their existing loan and then collect rent from the property it will work out less than 500pcm each as the house will return about 1400pcm.
But I think if my parents were to pay CGT on this type of transfer then the purchase price would need to increased to compensate.

Tax expenses could be split in thirds?

All of a sudden we would have a outstanding loan at near market value of the house so then you could enter the debate of purchasing another house with proposed better investment growth.

Exit strategy needs to be discussed…
 
Hi Rob,

That’s great I will revise the attached links.

I find it difficult to say but in that case we may be better off not selling until point three. Hopefully this is a long time coming times two.

I wonder how the CGT will work with this scenario…..
 
I don't think this is a good deal.
Can you get a mortgage when your parents still have the title in their name?
If your siblings cannot get financing for their share, it seems you are shouldering all the burden.

I suggest if you want to purchase a property, find one where you finance it by yourself.
This is just too messy.
 
Hi jlamba,

You might also check with your accountant, make sure the ATO won't view this as your parents' attempt to evade CGT...

The ATO will simply apply CGT to the market value of the property, regardless of how much it sold for.

As others have said, I wouldn't do it. Maybe by myself, but not with my family.

Rule No. 1 - never go into business with family or friends
Rule No. 2 - if in doubt, see Rule No. 1

In my view (and from having seen a number of examples where this all went custard) the negatives far outweigh the positives. Having said that, I have seen a handful of cases where it did work. It's just a matter of whether you want to take the chance.
 
Do you have alternative security to get $240K finance as you are unable to use the property as it will remain in your parents' name?
Marg
 
Like others have said, this is way too messy with you shouldering all the burdon should things not work out.

I'd respectfully decline the offer.

Although your parents intentions are good, business and family can be a really bad combination.
 
Hi All,

Thank you all for your feedback. After some thought I have respectfully decline the offer.

Regards,

Did you inform your parents you asked SS forumites for their opinion?
We certainly don't know what is best for you..but maybe you wanted confirmation about an offer that you were having reservations about.
 
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