What kind of hot water system do you have?

[redsquash]

What kind of hot water system do you have?
Is this something you are very conscious of when purchasing a property or is it irrelevant.
Is your thinking any different when the property you purchase is a Principal Place of residence.
Are you aware of the different costs of running each system.

My reason for putting a poll is to see if the results might be useful in trying to understand what a tenant might be thinking about a property if it has different forms of hot water production.
My initial thoughts are that they wouldn't take so much notice.
What do you think?

 

[BoatBoy]

Different in all, some gas, electric and solar.

Dave

 

[lizzie]

have electric off peak - but would prefer solar with instant gas as backup ... unfortunately it would cost a small fortune to connect the house to gas and we're holding off the solar until we build in the future.

 

[our obsession]

Put *various*, our properties run the gamut....our PPOR will have as much solar as possible...

 

[HeXa]

mmm... think all of mine are gas storage... most likely a Canberra thing due to weather.

My parents place (and their ex-IPs) were all solar with electric boosters... lot more warm sunshine in winter up in Rocky

I notice new houses here tend to have 1 or more instant gas hot water systems... more efficient for smaller blocks where a tank isn't really a good use of space.

 

[geoffw]

When we built, gas was an option. We chose not to, as gas was only something we thought would be good for cooking- and with small kids (then), it could have been a problem.

Off peak electricty was a good option, with cheap running costs.

Though obviously Peter Garret doesn't think so.

I don't know though why an electric heater is worse for the envirnoment than a gas burner, which has no controls about efficiency, gas leaks, bad burning or whatever. At least some of my power comes from hydro electricty- and people do have the option of paying a bit more to get "green" electricity.

 

[poppy]

I don't think the tenant will pay extra rent for a better hot water system... as long as the hot water has enough storage for the expected number of occupants to all have a shower.

We have a new IP which has solar, I think it is money down the drain for an IP, and only have it due to the govt requirement. Also with the solar hot water you have pipes in your roof so potential trouble if there's a leak.

Peter Garetts idea to ban electric hot water systems is crazy. What will people do when their hot water system dies and they have to pay thousands to connect gas to an existing property.

 

[wish-ga]

Peter Garetts idea to ban electric hot water systems is crazy. What will people do when their hot water system dies and they have to pay thousands to connect gas to an existing property.

True Poppy. Limited options in units. When there is no internal laundry the hws unit goes under kitchen sink. Gas not connected to many blocks.

 

[Ausprop]

the standard in WA seems to be electric everything with a gas hws and a gas bayonet. I really can't see the point of it, as usually you install a/c anyway, so you are running a whole gas account just to power your stove top. in my last development I deleted all the gas pipeworks and connections. the savings from that combined with govt subsidies for solar hws meant that there was virtually no cost to go for a solar hws. so the tenants will have to use an electric stove top instead of gas... not the most popular but am sure it's not hat bigger deal and it is one less bill turning up

 

[JFisher]

Hot (water) topic!

The various government bodies favour some HWS's over others dependant on their greenhouse gas emission. Rebates are available in most states as long as your replacement HSW emits less greenhouse gas than the one you had previously.

The sliding scale from best to worst greenhouse emissions is-
Solar with gas booster - just over 1 tonne per year
5 star instant gas - around 1.5 tonnes per year
Conventional gas - around 2 tonnes per year
Solar with electrical booster - around 2.5 tonnes per year.
Conventional electric - around 7 tonnes per year.

Most conventional storage systems are continually reheating the water whether you are using it or not. Twin element systems are more efficient that single element systems (my electrician explained it to me but I have forgotten why). Instant gas is efficient because you are only heating water when you need it; not for the rest of the day and night. LPG gas bottles will usually cost around $90 and last for 6-8 weeks for a family of 6 (using myself as a guinea pig here), so natural gas would be far more economical. Using bottled gas for a gas cooktop alone only uses about 1 bottle (45kg) of gas per year, so cooking with gas or electricity isn't a big deal IMHO.

While solar is expensive you can recieve up to $1500 in rebates towards the cost in Vic (unsure on other states). In areas like ours where there is plenty of sun the booster would be used very rarely (long overcast days and when visitors come). In overcast areas there are specific solar panels which are very sensitive to any light; we accidentally put these on 3 houses a few years ago in our area, which regularly gets to over 40 degrees in summer, and the relief valves kept releasing even on days around 25 degrees. I was talking to a client yesterday ,who we are quoting a job for, and he very specifically wanted a solar HWS over a rainwater tank; his previous house had a solar WS and the power to the electric boost hadn't been connected for two years before they realized...and it had never run out of water!

We are currently organizing a spec home for sale and we are putting on a natural gas instant HSW and rainwater tanks; at the moment in our district water is more precious, we'll always have plenty of sun.

 

[JFisher]

the standard in WA seems to be electric everything with a gas hws and a gas bayonet. I really can't see the point of it, as usually you install a/c anyway, so you are running a whole gas account just to power your stove top. in my last development I deleted all the gas pipeworks and connections. the savings from that combined with govt subsidies for solar hws meant that there was virtually no cost to go for a solar hws. so the tenants will have to use an electric stove top instead of gas... not the most popular but am sure it's not hat bigger deal and it is one less bill turning up

In Vic at the moment the Gas supplier pays for all pipework and connection to the home (if new); all you have to do is make sure you buy a natural gas appliance and not a LPG appliance which usually makes no difference to the price. The natural gas supplier here is currently paying the costs of converting all LPG appliances to Natural gas (not new appliances, just a small fitting that is attached) in order to get the business.

One reason some like to mix it up is that if your electricity supply goes down, you still have gas to cook with and vice versa. I think that for a rental property though a ceran or solid element electrical cooktop is far more practical as they are easier to keep clean than a gas cooktop with the trivets; some tenants just wouldn't be bothered.

 

[poppy]

5 star instant gas - around 1.5 tonnes per year

Can't you get instant electric systems? How do they rate?

 

[JFisher]

Can't you get instant electric systems? How do they rate?

Yes you can get instantaneous electric HWS but they all need expensive 3 phase power to operate. I wouldn't imagine that they would rate very well considering the 3 phase power factor; everyone I know with a 3 phase power reverse cycle continually complain about their power bills, but I don't know the official emissions.

A more cost effective solution where only power is available is a heat pump HWS. Heat pumps draw heat from the air and use approx 1/3 of the energy of a average electric storage HWS. The electricity is not used to heat the water but to move the heat from one place to another; the heat is carried by refridgerant. I suppose it is a similar process to a reverse cycle a/c function. Some of the best heat pumps are even eligible to recieve rebates (I have been told) but so far we have never installed one so please do your own homework in your area. Ask a sparkie or a refridgeration mechanic. You can boost a heat pump with solar panels!!

According to some info I have read between 25% - 50% of the total power and gas consumption in the family home goes to heating hot water. The trend shows the northern parts of Australia have the higher percentage. So it is certainly worth doing what you can to ensure your own home and tenants aren't put under financial strain because they like a long shower; even the distance between the unit and the taps can result in alot of water and power wastage before you get the water hot.

 

[Pushka]

I see Garret wants to ban all electric HWS by 2012!

 

[dave99]

I have instant electric hot water. But only have a unit so water use is small. For a larger house I think electric instant is a bit expensive.

But the problem I have with instants is that they only turn on after a certain flow rate - for mine, 9L/min. So you can't have a cool shower - only hot, warm, or cold. I like cool showers, especially in summer!

- Dave99