What should happen after the execution

[Ausprop]

This is getting real funny

You know that one of the fellas getting executed never had any drugs in his possession. He was merely sitting in a departure lounge waiting for his plane to come home to oz when he was arrested....and no drugs on him...now he's getting executed. That's not fair.

this would be your point:

"Between them, all were found to have been carrying more than 8.3 kilograms (18 lb) of heroin in plastic bags strapped to their bodies. On the same evening, Chan was removed from a commercial flight about to depart Ngurah Rai for Australia. Chan had several mobile phones in his possession, but was carrying no drugs when arrested. He was believed to be the person responsible for collecting the heroin from the couriers upon their arrival in Australia.[2] Four others, Nguyen, Sukumaran, Chen and Norman were arrested at Melasti Beach Bungalows near Kuta Beach in possession of 350 grams (12 oz) of heroin and strapping equipment."

I note:




"Even with the aid of hindsight, should the same set of circumstances present themselves again with another syndicate or other people, we would do exactly the same thing ... there have also been a large number of young lives on the other side of the ledger that have been saved as a result of the AFP's operations over many years."

? AFP's Mike Phelan interviewed on ABC TV's Australian Story, February 2006

and the great man himself:




"Can I just say to every young Australian, please take notice of this. I even beg them not to take the terrible risks that these young people have done ? their lives destroyed in the case of two people. I feel desperately sorry for the parents of these people, I do ... but the warnings have been there for decades and how on earth any young Australian can be so stupid as to take the risk is completely beyond me."

? Australia's prime minister, John Howard, quoted following the news of the death penalty, February 2006.


Indeed, hard to fathom.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_Nine

 

[datto]

I'd take anything that Howard and the AFP say with a grain of salt. They are just covering their mistakes. Australia is a country which opposes the death penalty and does not extradite people to a country where they face execution.

Yet, they have cocked this one up. You won't hear the end of this for a while yet.

 

[Ausprop]

Australia is a country which opposes the death penalty and does not extradite people to a country where they face execution.

well for all of 5 minutes yes. Now the self asserted experts on morality.

 

[dex]

I'd take anything that Howard and the AFP say with a grain of salt. They are just covering their mistakes. Australia is a country which opposes the death penalty and does not extradite people to a country where they face execution.

Yet, they have cocked this one up. You won't hear the end of this for a while yet.

This will go down in AFP history as the worst, or one of the worst mistakes they've ever made in tipping off the Indonesians. You can't get more stupid than that. They should sack all the keystone cops who were involved. Interesting the media has been quiet on those responsible.

 

[Ausprop]

This will go down in AFP history as the worst, or one of the worst mistakes they've ever made in tipping off the Indonesians. You can't get more stupid than that. They should sack all the keystone cops who were involved. Interesting the media has been quiet on those responsible.

they don't see it as a mistake, they see it as a victory for the greater preservation of life.

 

[datto]

Interesting the media has been quiet on those responsible.

Wait till after the executions.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

stop sending any government aid.

We are being made a mockery of, from an Asian perspective.

This is not what 'Asian friends' do.

At a minimum they could have let the full course of law proceede, if just for a mutual face saving solution between 'friends'.

They want to make a point. Ok, we must interpret this from an Asian point of view.

Australia has lost serious loss of face over this issue. More importantly Indonesia is happy to rub it in our face.

Again this is not what 'friend's' do. Friends might protect their position, but do it in a way that doesn't obviously and publically rub their friends position in the mud.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

they don't see it as a mistake, they see it as a victory for the greater preservation of life.

Sorry, no.

There is far too much evidence to the contriary.


And I am not going to post on a public forum, but I know a number of circumstances, where payouts have been made to 'avoid' the problem.
Not in Australia, but with other Asian countries.

I know two personal situations.

 

[BayView]

change the channel back to big brother!

eeeeuuuuwwww


Please tell me you didn't really watch that.

 

[BayView]

There's no victims with drug use. People use them willingly and ruin their own lives if it affects their finances, health, employment, relationships etc.

I don't agree.

Addicts who have to steal from cars, from houses, their own relatives, their friends, or mug folks, or overdose in the street and die and kids witness it, or crash their cash into an oncoming car and kill themselves or the other car occupants, attack hospital staff, other patients and police in a desperate rage because they need more drugs and the hospital staff won't/can't give them any (seen this first hand in the Frankston ER)...

There are plenty of victims from drug use that spread beyond the user themselves.

Here's one for ya; my BIL and his girlfriend got caught up in drug use - not heroin - and devolved mentally to the point where they took their own lives by gassing themselves in their car out at a forest near Marysville.

Didn't get found for days, and were found by campers...so imagine those poor folks - more victims (mentally) of drug destroyed lives.

 

[nomadic]

With the executions of the two drug smugglers in Indonesia imminent, what are peoples views on what should happen from a government perspective between Australia and Indonesia.

Should there be a formal comment, removal of diplomatic staff, trade sanctions...Keen on peoples thoughts.

We should expel their ambassador, cut foreign aid and introduce trade sanctions. I love Indonesia but we need to respond if this execution takes place. The real lesson for our govt is don't snitch on Australians to foreign governments who have the death penalty because it will backfire like it has done on this occasion. The AFP really ****ed up with this one.

 

[BayView]

Do me a favour...live in Indonesia...and then you will see the sickening corruption.....these guys are just pawns....

Indeed they were, Sash,

But they were at no stage not aware that to do what they were doing was a potential death sentence.

It is simply beyond me how anyone would take such a risk.

 

[nomadic]

I don't agree.

Addicts who have to steal from cars, from houses, their own relatives, their friends, or mug folks, or overdose in the street and die and kids witness it, or crash their cash into an oncoming car and kill themselves or the other car occupants, attack hospital staff, other patients and police in a desperate rage because they need more drugs and the hospital staff won't/can't give them any (seen this first hand in the Frankston ER)...

There are plenty of victims from drug use that spread beyond the user themselves.

Here's one for ya; my BIL and his girlfriend got caught up in drug use - not heroin - and devolved mentally to the point where they took their own lives by gassing themselves in their car out at a forest near Marysville.

Didn't get found for days, and were found by campers...so imagine those poor folks - more victims (mentally) of drug destroyed lives.

All the things you describe are mostly due to the fact drugs are illegal (and therefore expensive) or the user is addicted and has lost control. It's not about the drug they're using, it's more about the effects addiction has on their mental health. You can say the same thing about alcohol in your examples. Sorry to hear about your BIL but people with alcoholism die like this all the time or take their own lives and are found by other people.

 

[Strannik]

Do me a favour...live in Indonesia...and then you will see the sickening corruption.....these guys are just pawns....

The real criminals are some of the elite in the police, military, and government officials....

Let me ask a question....would you be so brave as these two and so composed knowing you will be shot soon??

and the fact that these two scumbags refused to give out names of people higher up the chain means that those real criminals keep walking free.

shows they aren't reformed, and are only remorseful that they got caught, not that they did the crime.

 

[BayView]

and the fact that these two scumbags refused to give out names of people higher up the chain means that those real criminals keep walking free.

shows they aren't reformed, and are only remorseful that they got caught, not that they did the crime.

I often wonder about this.

If it was me stuck in there waiting for the bullet, and knew that if I dobbed in the higher-ups my family would be harmed, I'd be looking to strike a deal with the Aus authorities to get my family into some form of protection and so on - in return for the names.

Only after I knew they were safe would I divulge the names.

 

[Strannik]

Nothing wrong with having some heroin, cocaine or ecstasy 1-2 times a month if you keep it in check. Some people come home and have beer or wine, others pop a valium, hit the bong or do a line. Some people need coffee in the morning. No lives are ruined if you have control over it.

i take it you've never used heroin '1-2 times a month, keeping it in check'?
otherwise you probably wouldn't write this ********.

it's statements like this that help people turn into drug addicts.

 

[Biz]

i take it you've never used heroin '1-2 times a month, keeping it in check'?
otherwise you probably wouldn't write this ********.

it's statements like this that help people turn into drug addicts.

I'm on heroin right nowwzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........

 

[BayView]

I'm on heroin right nowwzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........

Yo!

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...n-gathering-momentum.753810%2Fpage-25;500;313

I'd wager all these cool cats thought they had it in check for a while.

 

[BayView]

All the things you describe are mostly due to the fact drugs are illegal (and therefore expensive) or the user is addicted and has lost control.

Usually both.

Hence my stance that the Gubbmint takes over all manufacture of all these illegal drugs and puts in place a total management and rehabilitation system along with proper and medically monitored and staffed injecting/using facilities etc.

And; all for free.

Will the usage increase?

Maybe, but apparently not.

But I can guarantee you that the quality would be controlled, so the volume of od's would decrease and so would the crime and cost to the healthcare industry and the economy.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Sorry, no.

There is far too much evidence to the contriary.


And I am not going to post on a public forum, but I know a number of circumstances, where payouts have been made to 'avoid' the problem.
Not in Australia, but with other Asian countries.

I know two personal situations.

If you have evidence of this, then posting on a public forum would be the right thing to do from a position-clarifying point of view, because the media certainly aren't going to let it out.