When DA not given, then what?

[Ol School Skata]

Hey Forumites,

I am looking for some creative ideas to help my situation below

Own a block of units on a large block of land 1012m. Initially discussed with Council for DA for new unit block on the back part of the land. Concept was reasonable as existing block is at front of block. Appointed a Building Services Firm (architects, engineers etc) who Council had worked with previously on other projects and are supposedly knowledgeable in this. Anyway to cut a long story short, approval not possible for something feasible (one unit ok but not economical as compared to building 2 or more).

Main problem is with the access to back of block (existing building is 3.3m from boundary with 3m driveway but for new units requires either a driveway 'que bay' 5.3m wide at front of block or 5.3m wide driveway due to anticipated increase in traffic - neither is going to happen due to location of existing building.

So my problem is i have approx half the block sitting there with no function or rather no use at present.

I have considered selling this portion of land to one of the neighbours but have made no equiries on this as yet. I would imagine storage units would be out of the question due to the traffic flow problem.

Does someone else have any creative ideas

Hope you can help

OSS

 

[Unit]

How about putting in a swimming pool. I would generally avoid swimming pools with individual IPs but when you own a whole block a swimming pool may become more viable. Is your block of flats in Weipa. If so with Weipa's climate I imagine a swimming pool would be an advanatge in attracting tenants and raising rents. If you spent 20K would you receive an extra $30 a week rent total from all units to cover repayments. The down side would be the upkeep of the pool and liability issues.

 

[Aceyducey]

Turn it into a public garbage dump, then when all the neighbours sell up, buy their property cheap, remove the rubbish & do a DA over the entire street.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

BTW - this isn't entirely tongue in cheek, it's been done a couple of times

 

[Michael Croft]

OSS,

Why didn't your "professional" advisers a) know about this planning constraint and b) tell you about it before spending your time and $$ ?? Have councils' rules and regs changed recently?

I would be talking to some other "professionals" who have experience in this type of development. It's all been done before and there's always away. The trick is finding the cost effective solution that satisfies (circumvents) the anal retentive town planner behind the desk, who incidentally is the sole arbiter of good taste and rubber stamping (and will use laws, facts and stats to back him/herself up). It doesn't always work but using facts and stats agin them has worked for me.

The egress 'rule' that seems to be the problem was probably made for unit developments ranging in size from yours to something 50 times the plot ratio/density. Yours is obviously right on their cut off point as you are able to do it for one unit (not economically viable) but not more. If you or your "professionals" haven't pursued this yet, it's worth investigating.

BTW I don't have anything agin your "pros" but begin human they follow the path of least resistence. Council planning clerks on the other hand are the epitomy of the unimaginative little bureaucrat with power and they (most of them) give me the #####! But I'm always nice to them

regards, MC

 

[Ol School Skata]

Unit - i hadn't thought of that - that is worth investigating a little more. Actually the property is in Mt Isa.

AceyDucey - that is a great idea - what is the name of that condition of those poor people who hang onto their garbage...I need three of those as long as they pay rent.

Michael - thanks for your reply. I was a little pi@@ed off when my chosen professionals got back to me and said "we prepared some draft plans, took them to council only to have it knocked back due to not complying with this, that, these, etc etc. I mean i rang 3 firms - told them all i was not aware of all the town planning rules and regulations and i wanted a firm who could take my ideas and work them into the council regulations. It appears they took my ideas and forget about the council regulations. Anyway i have not parted with any money at this point and will not until i get some plans that can be approved. I understand that Council have their regulations and that is fine, i am still trying to work ideas with town planning for possibly 2 units, (on some regulations i miss out by 400mm...400mm!!!!!), but still looking for some other ideas for use of this land.

Are there any other suggestions? Does anyone know if it is possible to sell some of this land to a neighbouring property owner? I imagine there would need to be some town planning approvals and boundary changes needed.

 

[MichaelW]

I understand that Council have their regulations and that is fine, i am still trying to work ideas with town planning for possibly 2 units, (on some regulations i miss out by 400mm...400mm!!!!!), but still looking for some other ideas for use of this land.

Skata,

400mm is ridiculous! Take it to the Land and Environment Court. My wife is the tipstaffer for one of the senior judges and you'd be surprised the things he signs off on... I won't name him or the cases he's recently given a green light to, but suffice to say he's an old National Party blue blood and is very very pro development. When the councils come up against him they know they're in trouble.

You'd be blown away if I could tell you only a fraction of what gets through...

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[see_change]

We did a subdivision in Kuringgai which didn't comply with council regulations ( if anyone knows Kuringgai at all , they'll know that's pretty amazing...) .

Took our alternatives to a presubmission meeting and discussed with the council officers what we were proposing , and how reasonable it wass, even though it didn't fully comply and we were nice and polite , and didn't have a problem. Even managed to build a house on one which didn't comply with the building guidelines without any problems.

Read up on what the council regulations are so you have an idea on what they will allow.

See Change

 

[geoffw]

We did a subdivision in Kuringgai

I've done a few subdivisions myself.

I just cut a sandwich in half

 

[see_change]

I've done a few subdivisions myself.

I just cut a sandwich in half

Geoff

When you say this space for rent are you talking about the space between your ears ...

See Change

 

[Jakk]

Hey Forumites,

I am looking for some creative ideas to help my situation below


Main problem is with the access to back of block (existing building is 3.3m from boundary with 3m driveway but for new units requires either a driveway 'que bay' 5.3m wide at front of block or 5.3m wide driveway due to anticipated increase in traffic - neither is going to happen due to location of existing building.



OSS

G'Day OSS,

Now I'm not located in Mt Isa or Weipa and I'm definately no expert in planning matters in your neck of the woods (or anywhere else for that matter).
But,....if I was in your predicament, the first thing I'd do is check (have a look over the fence) and see how much land was available adjoining your driveway access on the neighbouring property.
Assuming there is sufficient land there (you are requiring roughly 2.3 metres to be added to yours), I would approach the owner with a view to purchasing that strip of land required and attaching it to your title. (In Victoria, we call that process "Transfer and Consolidation").
Best case scenario is the adjoining property does have the required amount of land and that strip of land is superfluous to the current adjoining property owners requirements and that the current owner thinks you're a great bloke and agrees to give you the strip of land for a token amount of $1-00 on the proviso that you pay all the fees for the transfer and consolidation and that you also erect a spiffy new fence at no expense to him.
A not so good case would be if the adjoining property had the required land but could not be sold off as it is required to service a driveway access to that property. In this situation, a deal could be agreed upon whereas the 2 driveway access areas were combined giving a total width of greater than the required minimum of the said 5.3 metres and this new combined area would be common property to service both parcels of land as driveway access and could even possibly allow the current adjoining owner to further develop his parcel of land should he be desirous of doing so.

I am of the firm opinion of "where there's a will, there's a way", I have spent the last 10 - 12 years of my life doing things that many have told me can't be done. Get your thinking cap on and look for a solution.

regards

 

[XBenX]

Read the DCP/LEP or relevant planning requirements for you area...

1/. Realign boundaries to comply
2/. LEC - similar problem in the planning stage - result - boundary setback changes approved (on industrial property)

 

[tony100]

OSS,

I suggest you have the issue brought up at the next town-planning meeting (usually held monthly). Quite often, when submissions are slightly outside of normal parameters, the application can be discussed at a town-planning meeting and, if no one objects (or submits an objection) on the night of the meeting, councillors can vote the restricting rule be relaxed -and the submission reassessed.

Another idea, if the numbers stack up, might be to knock down the existing dwelling and build a duplex - no access handle required then.

Failing those two things I'd look at going with the suggestions made by Jakk (approach a neighbour and see if you can buy a strip of their land) and by Sea change and Michael White (take it to Land and Environment Court).

Good luck.

Tony 100

 

[keithj]

Think big

As a variation on buying a strip of land from your neighbour, buy ALL the neighbouring block & do a '2 into 3' subdivision or realign the boundary yourself since you'd own both.
Could you do a bigger/better development across both back yards ?
Is the neighbours block suitable for a similar development to yours with a shared access ?

 

[Ol School Skata]

Latest development

I spoke with the Town Planner today and things made a heck of a lot more sense than they did with the supposed professional firm i am supposed to pay to do my work.

Turns out that the professional firm got their information wrong and some development can take place. Not 4 units but probably 2 or at worst, at least a 3 bed house on the back of the block.

I have changed some holiday plans (after coming back from a very relaxing break in Vanuatu) to go via the Isa to discuss some options with people.

But the past fortnight has made me consider some options i would had never thought of (install of dishwashers, construction of courtyards, pergolas, small storage sheds (1.5m x 2m) in each as there is only a carport and no external storage.

By doing the above should increase the rent for each unit by 30% and add a considerable amount to value based on a 9 % yield.

Man makes sick i did not consider these when i bought them 18 months ago.

But the best things is, these small additions will go ahead and not impact on room for the DA of another dwelling.

Anyway i will keep you informed of any developments (excuse the pun)

OSS