where do I stand

[Sunfish]

Thanks for everone's different opinions.
In reading your replies, I think that I will re-gather my facts and telephone her superiors to talk about it. So thanks for the advice.

This is about as much of your post that I read.

You are in a state of high dungeon over percieved failings of your (once) PM.

This has nothing to do with the incorrect deposit into your account and most responders to your query said to do the easy/right thing and repay this small amount.

If you only wanted replys which fitted with your preconceptions, you should not have asked in an open forum.

Your choice!

 

[Jen]

It sounds to me that there are many issues in which the old PM was clearly in the wrong.

If you take issue with this matter, you may spoil your success with other matters with which you have a much stronger argument.

I agree. I am going to do as previously suggested and phone up her superior, stating my whole argument. I'll think about my angle for a day, take a deep breath and just do it!

 

[likewow]

It sounds to me that there are many issues in which the old PM was clearly in the wrong.

If you take issue with this matter, you may spoil your success with other matters with which you have a much stronger argument.

Do you mean with the same PM or agency Geoff? If thats a problem, move to another one. But you could have meant something else.

 

[Jen]

This is about as much of your post that I read.

You are in a state of high dungeon over percieved failings of your (once) PM.

This has nothing to do with the incorrect deposit into your account and most responders to your query said to do the easy/right thing and repay this small amount.

If you only wanted replys which fitted with your preconceptions, you should not have asked in an open forum.

Your choice!

To the contrary, this has EVERTHING to do with the incorrect deposit as it is yet another example of her incompentent management, yet one in which they may take notice this time. They didn't take notice of my phone calls of despair when the place wasn't rented, or my letter which requested a reply, or the fact that I took my business away. They are taking notice of this mistake, even if it is two years later.

By the way, I never asked people to only reply if it fitted my "preconceived ideas" but do feel it necessary to explain why I feel the way I do. I know this forum has a large number of opinions and that is what I value but don't think I should be criticised for my opinion. Have I canned anyone with their answers????

 

[geoffw]

Would a registered letter be a good precursor? You may be able to state a lot of your objections in a more reasoned way, without forgetting anything. But possibly precede it with a brief talk, and follow it up with a longer talk.

I once had an objection about a PM who was shouting at my tenant- in a busy street. After my phone call to the principal, she was calling me telling me that nothing happened the way I had described, and that it was her word against the tenant's. When I emailed my tenant's email to the principal, the PM was back, and extremeley apologetic- begging, in fact.

(I self manage that property now).

 

[astroboy]

This is about as much of your post that I read.

You are in a state of high dungeon over percieved failings of your (once) PM.

This has nothing to do with the incorrect deposit into your account and most responders to your query said to do the easy/right thing and repay this small amount.

If you only wanted replys which fitted with your preconceptions, you should not have asked in an open forum.

Your choice!

Sorry, this has everything to do with the credit to your account. You have not been charged/debited with the cleaning account, as such it is a non issue. You have been *incorrectly* credited with an amount that was not owing or due to you, as such, you are responsible for making the correction, the fact that you accepted the amount and consequently paid tax on it is of no consequence to those who incorrectly attributed the amount to your account. As was mentioned make good and make the adjustment on this years return. Pretty simple actually.
ab

 

[Jen]

So GeoffW, if I have your idea right, I should ring her superiors, tell them briefly of my woes and that I'll write a letter. After sending the letter, ring them again to discuss it?
That sounds good. thank you for your constructive comments

 

[geoffw]

That's my suggestion.

A registered letter ensures that you know it has been received.

But have the letter written before you call- so that it's fresh, and so that you have had a chance to state your case out logically yourself first. It will help clarify things in your own mind.

 

[Jen]

Sorry, this has everything to do with the credit to your account. You have not been charged/debited with the cleaning account, as such it is a non issue. You have been *incorrectly* credited with an amount that was not owing or due to you, as such, you are responsible for making the correction, the fact that you accepted the amount and consequently paid tax on it is of no consequence to those who incorrectly attributed the amount to your account. As was mentioned make good and make the adjustment on this years return. Pretty simple actually.
ab

It is that they have once again done something wrong. It is a bargaining tool to make them address previous issues and this is an example of their incompetence which actually directly affects them this time. I have no problems in paying back the money once the previous issues have been addressed. As they don't listen or care in any other circumstances, I wanted to know what to do and I think Geoff has offered constructive advice.

 

[astroboy]

It is that they have once again done something wrong. It is a bargaining tool to make them address previous issues and this is an example of their incompetence which actually directly affects them this time. I have no problems in paying back the money once the previous issues have been addressed. As they don't listen or care in any other circumstances, I wanted to know what to do and I think Geoff has offered constructive advice.

Sorry, I thought my spiel was just as contsructive and as likely to stand up. Good Luck.
astro

 

[Patosan]

I'm with Bill.

It seems you were given poor service but even if you give all the money back you still had the carpets cleaned for free.

I recently finished with the solicitor from hell ... well not quite but close.
When they sent the final invoice I had the money remitted same day.
It felt good to be rid of them.

Recently one of the gurus here told me "never bad blood", It has raised my opinion of them even higher. It's at times a hard culture to endure but I assume with practice it becomes part of you. I'll never forget it and will try to emulate it. If this is all you have to do to close the book on these people do it gracefully. I'm sure you'll feel better in time.

Best of luck in whichever course you take.

 

[wrappack]

Wrappacks 2c worth.

If you take your car to a carwash, and have it detailed, then refuse to pay, then that is deceitful and dishonest.

But, if somebody has washed your car, without your knowledge and consent, then that is bloody stupid of themm and you should not be required, nor feel obligated to pay.

So, did you consent to the steam cleaning? My understanding is that, in nsw, it is illegal to request for steam cleaning to be done by tenants after moving out, EVEN IF IT IS 'AGREED TO' IN THE LEASE!

Check your pm agreement, you may find an 'out' for you, but, more likely, it has been drafted by their lawyers to make it more difficult for you.

Couple of thoughts.

You got paid 168 dollars. Assuming that you paid $80 in tax, you made a profit. If you do repay this entire bill, your accountant can, either now, or in future, amend your tax return in order to get your $80 back.

Buy, if you really want to annoy them, why not start a paper trail, that may not ever end? If you are ever taken to consumer affairs/credit bureau, they love paper trails! Shows that you care.

For example, write one letter requesting a copy of the lease agreement.

When it arrives, write another one, thanking them for the lease agreement, but that it was really the pm agreement you were after.

When that arrives, query, again, in writing, the need for steam cleaning the carpets. What if it is just a small area in a single room?

When that reply arrives, ask for the policies and proceedures (god I hate those words, but business loves them), with regards to maintenance.

Then, tell them, that, yes, if a water main bursts in the middle of the night, of course they can get any plumber out to fix it, but for all discretionary spending, should it not be okayed by the owner who is footing the bill first?

Then, inform them that you are very wary of banking, banking details and this new found internet-thingy, and that you are very concerned that they may have made other errors in your banking to your detriment. Would they please check all of their banking records to check that they have not debited anything? And of course, put it in writing, checking that they have updated their policy and proceedure manual.

Then, inform them that you do not feel obligated to pay for their bill, for services rendered (but were they really done?) but not requested. Again, ask for their written comments

Then, there is the problem of taxation. (they probably dont know that you can easily amend your previous tax bills)

Ask them to make an offer of settlement to finalise the account, with no hard feelings.

Then, send them a cheque for half that amount, as you feel that you have been receiving poor service, and have had to put lots of time and effort into writing letters, phone bills, for what was inherently their mistake. By all means invite them to reply. In writing, of course!

Please feel free to add any more steps that may confuse the maze more! After all, if you got crappy service from somebody in charge of an asset worth more than they earn in a couple of years, why not make their life a tad difficult!

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

This thread has shown to me the type of people who I would prefer not to do business with.

bye

 

[Jen]

My computer has been down a while, so apologies for the lack of response..

Just to add a finale, I struggled for a few days to write an appropriate letter that outlined my concerns and in the end phoned up to speak to the principal of the practice (which took bit of convincing that he was the person I wanted) In discussing my position on the matter and particularly my annoyance at the PM's attitude and senior management's lack of follow up of my original issues, we came to a compromise where we were both happy. I'm still not sure however that the bad practice management of the PM was ever properly addressed.

 

[voodoo]

Jen,
you are cranky with the PM because your property was vacant after purchase and you feel that they are incompetent.

Why did you not research your PM during settlement?


The first thing I did while I was waiting for settlement on my IP was to have my solicitor put a clause in that would not let the current PM sign up a lease with the existing tenant until after settlement.

Then I went around all the PM's in my area and negotiated the best deal.

I then took this to the current PM, they could not match it, so I moved the property from them at settlement. The clause that the solicitor put in the contract saved them from shafting me before settlement, after they knew I was moving to another PM.

cheers

 

[ggumpshots]

yes Bill it does matter how bad the other party treats you. Theory though dictates you shouldnt change
At some point you will loose your patience and respect for the poor treatment you receive by others.
Everyone out there ,dont just read Jens words , put yourself into her postion. The 6 weeeks vacancy and the contempt she received should never, never have happened.
Lets just deduct 6 weeks rental from your income for no reason. it starts to change the complexion of things doesnt it?
Lets throw in some lies and contempt...........your mother is a camel hearder!...... and your father is a ##)^%^#$#)(#
Jen did you find it annoying that your correspondence was ignored. You could do the same as a tactic but I would be inclined to reach an agreement but not necessarily return the full $167 as a matter of principle.
This would be a black mark against the PM which is what I think you were ,in a way trying to achieve

 

[stanley]

... In discussing my position on the matter and particularly my annoyance at the PM's attitude and senior management's lack of follow up of my original issues, we came to a compromise where we were both happy.

... and what was that compromise?

- Go half/half?

- They pay it all?

- You repay it all?

 

[voodoo]

[Everyone out there ,dont just read Jens words , put yourself into her postion. The 6 weeeks vacancy and the contempt she received should never, never have happened.
Lets just deduct 6 weeks rental from your income for no reason. it starts to change the complexion of things doesnt it?
[/QUOTE]

I am not saying that the PM was competent or incompetent, But it sounds as though the IP was purchased with the existing PM, and no contact was made with them, until they stuffed up.
Ok the PM is useless or whatever, but is is easy to lay blame.
A bit of communication with the PM before settlement and this issue may have been avoided.

cheers

 

[Jen]

Jen did you find it annoying that your correspondence was ignored. You could do the same as a tactic but I would be inclined to reach an agreement but not necessarily return the full $167 as a matter of principle.
This would be a black mark against the PM which is what I think you were ,in a way trying to achieve

I was really cranky, not only at the loss of income but the absolute lack of care about the whole issue, from the Pm who I felt was conceited and the superiors who I thought showed lack of concern and poor PR.

The compromise with this issue was that I paid the carpet fee minus tax at 30% and I guess I also felt that at least the issues I originally raised may have in some way been re-visited so that the PM may think twice before doing the same thing to some one else.

To answer Voodoo's question about why I didn't research PMs...I was pretty new at the game when I bought it and it was a little beauty. I had bought it through the sales team at the REA in question and they were excellent - honest (yes they are out there), concientious and wanting to do the right thing by me. I naively (however it's spelt) thought the PM side of the business would be the same and wanted to keep the house with these agents because the sales team were so good to me... I wanted to continue and to build the relationship by keeping my business there. However, I have learnt since then and experience is sometimes the only way we learn in this business.