White guilt and racism double-standards

[garygoodbloke]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/stalker-wages-war-against-deviant-foreign-teachers-20100205-nirb.html

Above is an article that appeared originally in the LA Times. One thing that really gets on my nerves these days is how much people around me seem to bend over backwards to criticise Australia's race problems.

Do we have issues with racism? Yes, definitely. Are we talking about them or living in denial? We're talking about them. Are we a monocultural or multicultural society? Multicultural.

I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about our issues with racism, but it really annoys me when other countries call us racist whilst they have far more "hidden" racism that they don't recognise and, therefore, they claim it doesn't exist to begin with.

I used to live in Korea, for one year. It's one of the most homogenous countries on earth. They talk about one culture, one blood, one mind, one language, one people. Sometimes they'll ask black people to leave the bar or refuse them entry right off the bat.

If you go there to work and you don't have any Korean ancestry, then you have to submit yourself to STD testing and drug testing. Whilst someone from the same country, with the same nationality, there to do the same job but who has Korean blood doesn't have to. All this despite the crime, std and drug usage rate is lower than in the general Korean community.

Often in Korea you experience being either put on a pedastal because you're white, but also being looked down on for it, too. Once I was on the bus with my Korean American girlfriend and an old man told her in Korean that we should be speaking Korean because we were in Korea.

My doctor in Aus is Korean Australian and she was telling me the stuff she used to put up with as a doctor in the Korean community here. Housewives accusing her of insulting them when the STDs tests came back positive. Of course, two weeks later the truth would come out and the husband was making his excuses.

Often I'd have guys come up to me if I was with a Korean girl and they'd call her a **** for dating a foreigner. It was pretty hurtful to the girl and the only purpose to it was because the guy was (probably) lonely and wanted to destroy other people's happiness if he had none.

Anyway, after all that, they'd have the nerve to tell me Australia was racist and Korea was pure.

Anyone got a similar experience to share?

I know Australia isn't perfect by a long shot, but when it comes to talking about racism in aus, and racism in other countries, I don't even think we could agree on a definition of racism. When I raised any of these points in Korea, I was met with: "Yes, but it's different in Korea".

 

[Nikolina]

I think some people can be racist. I can't say ive had an experince like you but what really ***** me to the extreme is the many different nationalities in australia that stick to their own kind, like you said they talk about one culture, one blood, one mind, one language. This iritates me to the extreme hence why i have nothing to do with my culture in the community (Croatian/Bosnian).

 

[weg]

Once a drunk guy (non black) heard my accent on a 'tube' in London and verbally abused me for abusing Aboriginals .

Racism exist everywhere to different extents, but it is annoying when you have people publicly commenting on how bad racism is elsewhere when their issues are alot worse.

I suspect some of these people just want to criticise for some sort of self gain yet are in denial of their own prejudices.

I actually know of someone like this; vocal on social issues but is very elitist and would probably die if Aboriginals were to move next door.

 

[JulieW]

I have to disagree. Australia is not racist beyond the norms for any country with a large multcultural population.

If you really want to see racism go to any of the countries from which we draw our migrant populations.

Young men will find other young men to beat and fight with and will use race as one of the many elements to base their violence upon. Sure we have individuals who are racists (and they are of every race!) but to say 'Australia is racist' is misinformed.

 

[Mooze]

Lived in the US for 5 years. Experienced racism to a greater extent than what happens here. Lived in London for a while as well - same thing.

Here however it's almost more obvious because of what Nikolina mentioned previously - nationalities sticking with their own kind rather than disbursing or taking on aspects of a new culture (very obvious at universities for example).

Weg - I know exactly what you mean. A friend of mine, whilst claiming not to be racist, was concerned about two particular groups (one religious, the other a nationality) that were prevalent in the upmarket neighborhood she was moving to, spoke very much about the percentage of the population made up of each, but oh how it didn't worry her

 

[Nikolina]

I have to disagree. Australia is not racist beyond the norms for any country with a large multcultural population.

If you really want to see racism go to any of the countries from which we draw our migrant populations.

Young men will find other young men to beat and fight with and will use race as one of the many elements to base their violence upon. Sure we have individuals who are racists (and they are of every race!) but to say 'Australia is racist' is misinformed.

This too happens in Australia, but more so men v woman.

 

[blaster]

This is just an observation from a far but anything you see on the States even in movies, it's always as if the whites have to tip toe around blacks, guilt and political correctness but blacks can treat whites any way they want these days , language and insults anyway. I don't know if that's really the case or not.
In Oz , I feel at the end of the day it's all dandy for pollies to tell us we are multi cultural but that won't make us all get along , I don't think it's possible without all the crap we're seeing the last few yrs.
Many migrants also bring with them their ways, ideals and dislikes of a particular nationality that often went back centuries at home and simply carry that on over here .
For example , I grew up in the western suburbs of Melbourne and a totally different kind of crime , violence , groups and people way in general began once they started bringing bucket loads in and of a wide mix. They usually all had gripes about this nationality or that and it could get serious too, most of them didn't like Aussies either
The areas are totally different now , always on the news and we all literally watched it evolve growing up. I'd be pretty dubious about wondering around at night or even daytime in some now.
I don't think we're any more racist than anyone else , but mix it up too much and it's only natural there'll be problems from one group, another or many.

JMO.

Cheers

Cheers

 

[Monty Burns]

I was talking to a friend at the Multicultural festival in Canberra yesterday who mentioned about her friend who helped organise it. She mentioned that they have a hard time planning the tenting arrangements each year because of the problems of sitting certain countries to close to each other.

Do people call Australians racist or is it just that what people see as rasist is just migrants bringing the problems of their home countries into Australia??

A lot of the troubles I have seen appear to be because of problems brought over from home countries with migrants.

 

[Hooray]

Do people call Australians racist or is it just that what people see as rasist is just migrants bringing the problems of their home countries into Australia??

A lot of the troubles I have seen appear to be because of problems brought over from home countries with migrants.

Yeah, I hate it when Britisih immigrants argue about the 'foot-ee' in Oz!

 

[WinstonWolfe]

I don't think Australia is multicultural at all. We have a dominate english speaking anglo saxon culture. Migrants are expected to drop their language and assimilate.

We aren't multicultural like the USA, Canada, England, or Malaysia.
We don't have a significant non anglo culture that represents a sizeable portion of our population, like the USA.

Canada has a significant portion of French speaking. We have nothing like that.

If anyone thinks Australia is multicultural, then you should write to national broadcaster and ask why all their weather girls are white with Australian accents, and when we might see a non white weather girl dressed in a hijab and a newsreader wearing a turban.

 

[Simon]

If anyone thinks Australia is multicultural, then you should write to national broadcaster and ask why all their weather girls are white with Australian accents, and when we might see a non white weather girl dressed in a hijab and a newsreader wearing a turban.

SBS is a national broadcaster right?

 

[WinstonWolfe]

SBS is a national broadcaster right?

What's the first S stand for?

 

[Simon]

You saying it isn't national with people from all different backgrounds?

I think the "Special" is a historical thing from when it was something out of the ordinary.

 

[garygoodbloke]

I don't think Australia is multicultural at all. We have a dominate english speaking anglo saxon culture. Migrants are expected to drop their language and assimilate.

We aren't multicultural like the USA, Canada, England, or Malaysia.
We don't have a significant non anglo culture that represents a sizeable portion of our population, like the USA.

Canada has a significant portion of French speaking. We have nothing like that.

If anyone thinks Australia is multicultural, then you should write to national broadcaster and ask why all their weather girls are white with Australian accents, and when we might see a non white weather girl dressed in a hijab and a newsreader wearing a turban.

No big non-Anglo cultures? Ah, Aboriginal, Vietnamese, Chinese, Lebanese, Sudanese, Iraqi, Salvic cultures (Balkans).

Expected to drop their language and assimilate? How? I know of no government policy pertaining to this and last I checked, centrelink offers a lot of translation services for FREE:

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/languages/index.htm

Care to count them? Can you tell me where Nuer is spoken, without checking wikipedia? Because I've been to 61 countries and I can't.

How about checking local government announcements:

http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/TranslatingService.asp

I can't remember ever needing or using this site, but it's there nonetheless. \

As for languages spoken at home, wikipedia has some enlightenment

Language Speakers
Only English 15,581,333
Italian 316,895
Greek 252,226
Cantonese 244,553
Arabic 243,662
Mandarin 220,600
Vietnamese 194,863

IE, 7/22 million people DON'T speak English at home here. For the full list go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia.

As wikipedia goes on to say: "According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, in mid-2006 there were 4,956,863 residents who were born outside Australia, representing 24% of the total population"

We're not talking second generation here, we're talking BORN in Aus.

As for ethnicity, only 37% consider themselves ethnically Aussie. And if you're still not convinced then consider this "During 2004-05, 123,424 people immigrated to Australia. Of them, 17,736 were from Africa, 54,804 from Asia, 21,131 from Oceania, 18,220 from the United Kingdom, 1,506 from South America, and 2,369 from Eastern Europe.[4]" from the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Australia.

And that's from five years ago, I can assure you the trend is moving away from Europe and more immigrants are coming from Africa, Oceania and Asia.

As for population statistics, the UK is 90% "white" (see the table about halfway down http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom)

Canada's largest "non anglo" ethnic population is Chinese, and they're 4.3%, followed by Native Americans and then a lot of other "white" ethnicities.

The USA btw has this ethnic make up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States):

Race Percentage Number

White alone (Not including the 29.2 million White Hispanic and Latino Americans: 65.4% or 198.9 million) 75.0% 228.2 million

Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, of any race 15.4% 46.9 million
Black or African American alone 12.4% 37.6 million
Some other race alone 4.9% 15.0 million
Asian alone 4.4% 13.4 million
Two or more races 2.3% 7.0 million
American Indian or Alaska Native alone 0.8% 2.4 million
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander alone 0.14% 0.43 million

Now, I believe the UK, Canada and The USA are multicultural, but you can't tell me that Australia isn't just because they aren't reflected in our media. That also depends on what media you follow and watch. I'd a young white male and there's apparently a lot of media directed at my demographic, but I wouldn't know because I don't own a television out of choice. Personally I don't find anything interesting on TV.

As for not having newsreaders in a Turban or Hijab, what's that got to do with anything. I can't say I've seen that in the UK or the USA. Besides, the Australian population as a whole is simply too small to provide commercial stations that cater to any niche. That's why they're very broad (and bland IMO) in their appeal. If you have 330 million like the US, and you have 2% of one ethnicity then you have a market of 7 million people - enough to support a commercial station (which they do, on cable).

Perhaps the real problem comes when people mistake visibility for existence and then claim that just because they can't see it, it isn't there.

I look forward to your response.

 

[rugrat]

I have seen alot of racism around Australia. Moreso out in the sticks (say, WeeWaa, Moree, Armidale, Toowomba), then in Canberra. But I do have friends of different ethnic backgrounds who have definitely experience it here in Canberra as well - usually it is much more "hidden" behind politeness and political correctness, then I have observed in regional Australia.

Having said that I don't believe that Australia is any worse then any other country. I particularly resent when Armerican's take a shot at Australia for so called racist behaviours (especially seeing as we have too very different cultural backgrounds and they often completely miss the point in their critisim). The pot calling the kettle black I think.

I often find myself very uncomfortable with DH's siblings / relatives, who will come out with racist remarks and then completely deny that they are in any way shaape or form racist because "I know a black / indian / (insert nationality of choice here) from somewhere and we're mates, so it is [somehow] alright for me to say these things / tell this joke." They honestly don't believe that they are racist, but you can see in their behaviour and language that the issue of race certainly does impact negative on their beliefs about people.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

You saying it isn't national with people from all different backgrounds?

How does their 6.30pm news audience ratings share validate Australia's multiculturalism?

How do their top ten rating programs validate Australia's multiculturalism?
1 TOP GEAR rpt (Monday) 685
2 MAN VS WILD 664
3 DESTINATION: FIFA WORLD CUP 461
4 ADBC BITESIZE 427
5 WOLRD NEWS AUSTRALIA LATE 284
6 ROCKWIZ 284
7 MYTHBUSTERS 280
8 TOP GEAR (Friday) 268
9 LUKE NGUYEN’S VIETNAM 261
10 WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

As I said originally, we have a dominate white anglo culture.
and migrants are expected to integrate.

GGG, I've lived and worked in the countries I mentioned, so I have a broader understanding of multiculturalism than stats reveal, and some here seem to.

What Australians like to self congratulate themselves on as multiculturalism, is the result of a blinkered existence and decades of govt propaganda, imho.

Multiculturalism is more than a range of ethnic restaurants, half of NZ's male workforce, and a few hundred thousand UK, Sth African, and Canadian skilled migrants.

When Australia has several cultures represented by political parties competing to preserve their culture, and the ABC has a weather girl in a hijab, then we might be approaching multiculturalism.

 

[rugrat]

Canada has a significant portion of French speaking. We have nothing like that.

Just thought I would point out that Canada has a large french speaking portion due to the fact that that portion was actually settled by the french......

 

[rugrat]

Watch SBS and ABC.

Just curious, aren't people from other cultures allowed or supposed to watch or enjoy "white" TV? I know alot of the mainstream television doesn't fit in "my" culture either as it is of US origin. But I often enjoy watching programs and movies from other countries on SBS and ABC.

 

[luckyone]

OK, I'm going to say something that's obviously going to sound completely outrageous. But why shouldn't foreigners be expected to integrate? I don't see anything wrong with that. I wouldn't go to another country (to live, not to just visit) without learning the language and respecting their culture. If I did not respect their culture and their values I simply would not go there. Why can't people from other countries pay us the same respect?

 

[garygoodbloke]

Fair enough then WinstonWolfe, how exactly would you define multiculturalism if you don't define it by the number of people from different cultures residing in a particular place?

By you own (statistically insignificant) personal experiences with a place (empirical). I never claimed those other countries aren't multicultural simply that Australia is also.

Lately I haven't seen much self-congratulatory stuff around. You can come to Australia, cut hair for two years, get your PR VISA and do whatever you please. I think that's a pretty good deal. Whereas I could go to Korea and marry a Korean, have Korean kids, and even if I've been there 30 years and I divorce my wife, I would be asked to leave.

As per the TV ratings, I'm not sure what it proves other than we like bland (my very subjective opinion) television.

As for America, here's what they have been watching:

Week ending Jan. 31, 2010
Rank Program Name Net Day Time Viewers
1 GRAMMY AWARDS CBS Sun 8:00 PM 25,869,000
2 AMERICAN IDOL-WEDNESDAY FOX Wed 8:00 PM 25,710,000
3 AMERICAN IDOL-TUESDAY FOX Tue 8:00 PM 24,452,000
4 NCIS CBS Tue 8:00 PM 20,221,000
5 NCIS: LOS ANGELES CBS Tue 9:00 PM 16,942,000
6 HOUSE FOX Mon 8:00 PM 14,213,000
7 BONES FOX Thu 8:00 PM 12,331,000
8 60 MINUTES CBS Sun 7:00 PM 12,328,000
9 TWO AND A HALF MEN CBS Mon 9:00 PM 12,069,000
10 THE BIG BANG THEORY CBS Mon 9:30 PM 11,500,000
11 THE BACHELOR: ON THE WINGS OF LOVE ABC Mon 8:00 PM 11,470,000
12 DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES ABC Sun 9:00 PM 11,437,000
13 THE MENTALIST CBS Thu 10:00 PM 11,068,000
14 24 FOX Mon 9:00 PM 10,814,000
15 CASTLE ABC Mon 10:00 PM 10,551,000
16 THE GOOD WIFE CBS Tue 10:00 PM 10,016,000
17 THE BIGGEST LOSER NBC Tue 8:00 PM 9,708,000
18 CSI: MIAMI CBS Mon 10:00 PM 9,548,000
19 HUMAN TARGET FOX Tue 9:01 PM 9,261,000
20 CSI CBS Thu 9:00 PM 9,145,000

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/za...le?SortBy=cdb_01_num+,cdb_05_txt+&PageSize=50

Seems pretty mainstream whitebred stuff to me.

Or how about ethnic diversity in the USA:

Keith Maurice Ellison (born August 4, 1963) is an American lawyer, politician, and a Democrat. He became the first Muslim[1][2] to be elected to the United States Congress when he won the open seat for Minnesota's 5th congressional district, which centers on Minneapolis, in the House of Representatives in 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison_(politician)


Whoa, one Muslim in history, hmmm.

But wait, there must be some Asian American politicians, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Asian_American_politicians

Hmmm.

In most countries, it takes quite a few generations until ethnic groups decide to enter politics. Why? Well, the reason a lot of people came here are because of wars in their homeland, or because they didn't like the way things were back home. Those dislikes usually stem from their political process, politicians and the way they were treated by their governments.

That's basically where the Republicans miscalculated when we voted on whether or not to become a republic. They thought the immigrants who'd recently arrived would prefer it. In fact, the last thing they wanted was to change the political landscape. They'd left because of that kind of upheaval and came here because they like the way things are run.

Maybe we're only having intersecting monologues rather than a discussion, because I can't see how, given the statistics, you could claim Australia isn't multicultural. There are around 216 or so countries in the world, and if we're not in the top 10 for multiculturalism, then who exactly is? And if there are only 3 that are, then I'd say the definition has no meaning or is being misused - neither of these conclusions are supported by any evidence or facts I've seen.

I have a feeling this will have to be one of those "agree to disagree" situations.

As per my original post, I like living in a country where I'm not stalked because of my race.