White guilt and racism double-standards

hmmm ONE Culture multi-race maybe?

now you are talking.....pity the media and goverment can't say that.

we won't be accepting migrants at this rate forever, unless we drastically cut into our farmland and agricultural exports, which fund a high portion of our quality of life.

may the culture with the best survival advantage prevail.
 
Forthly, I really think someone who claims "tolerance" is telling us a hell of alot more about themselves then they realise. To "tolerate" something, means that you must in the first instance find whatever you are "tolerating" abhorant, offensive or in some other way distasteful. When as person talks about "tolerating" racial differences, that (to me) says "I am a racist, who will endevour to pretend I am not".

But Hey, that's just my interpretation....

When I see the women folk in full body burkas walking 3 paces behind their men folk (last week- at Moorooka) , or an 10 year old boy repeatedly punching his 14 year old sister/female cousin in front of parents without reprimand (Tuesday afternoon, again at Moorooka), I tolerate it as it is not my business and perhaps I am in need of some cultural sensitivity and awareness training and re education. I do find that behaviour exceedingly distasteful so you may have a point although I am not sure it is racist.

I tolerate excessive drinking in the white culture- I find it distasteful but I would scream and shout before I let the government ban alcohol altogether. I think you can't fairly link the term racist with tolerate.

Most of my clients are not "white" but many are Greek, Italian , Somalian, Kenyan to name a few. I really don't care about the race colour religion thing as long as they are not "ratbags" and these people are generally the ones who want to get ahead in Australian society. Not one Burka amongst them (although some African women will refuse to shake hands and some men will not shake hands with infidels such as me - come to think of it , it might be my deodorant- yes that must be what it is, nothing "cultural").
 
When I see the women folk in full body burkas walking 3 paces behind their men folk (last week- at Moorooka) , or an 10 year old boy repeatedly punching his 14 year old sister/female cousin in front of parents without reprimand (Tuesday afternoon, again at Moorooka), I tolerate it as it is not my business and perhaps I am in need of some cultural sensitivity and awareness training and re education. I do find that behaviour exceedingly distasteful so you may have a point although I am not sure it is racist.

using the term "culture" to explain differences is just another term for "my excuse for being a knob" - i don't accept "cultural differences" as an excuse to bully someone at whatever extreme.

culture is art, mythology, music, language, dress, food - not behaviour.

...........
 
On culture...

The word culture has many different meanings. For some it refers to an appreciation of good literature, music, art, and food. For a biologist, it is likely to be a colony of bacteria or other microorganisms growing in a nutrient medium in a laboratory Petri dish.

However, for anthropologists and other behavioral scientists, culture is the full range of learned human behavior patterns.

The term was first used in this way by the pioneer English Anthropologist Edward B. Tylor in his book, Primitive Culture, published in 1871.

Tylor said that culture is "that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, law, morals, custom, and any other capabilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society." Of course, it is not limited to men. Women possess and create it as well. Since Tylor's time, the concept of culture has become the central focus of anthropology

From:

http://anthro.palomar.edu/culture/culture_1.htm

(Quite an interesting read btw).

Culture is a definition highly misunderstood and misused, thus the need for an explanation:

Culture refers to the following Ways of Life, including but not limited to:

•Language : the oldest human institution and the most sophisticated medium of expression.

•Arts & Sciences : the most advanced and refined forms of human expression.

•Thought : the ways in which people perceive, interpret, and understand the world around them.

•Spirituality : the value system transmitted through generations for the inner well-being of human beings, expressed through language and actions.

•Social activity : the shared pursuits within a cultural community, demonstrated in a variety of festivities and life-celebrating events.

•Interaction : the social aspects of human contact, including the give-and-take of socialization, negotiation, protocol, and conventions.

All of the above collectively define the meaning of Culture

From:

http://www.roshan-institute.org/templates/System/details.asp?id=39783&PID=474552

Starting point: Culture as Knowledge

Anthropologist James Spradley gives an elegantly succinct definition of culture, in which every word is carefully chosen:

Culture is the acquired knowledge people use
to interpret experience and generate behavior

From:

http://culture-at-work.com/concept1.html
 
When I see the women folk in full body burkas walking 3 paces behind their men folk (last week- at Moorooka) , or an 10 year old boy repeatedly punching his 14 year old sister/female cousin in front of parents without reprimand (Tuesday afternoon, again at Moorooka), I tolerate it as it is not my business and perhaps I am in need of some cultural sensitivity and awareness training and re education. I do find that behaviour exceedingly distasteful so you may have a point although I am not sure it is racist.

I tolerate excessive drinking in the white culture- I find it distasteful but I would scream and shout before I let the government ban alcohol altogether. I think you can't fairly link the term racist with tolerate.
It opens your eyes when you go for a walk around Moorooka,the last time i was there last week there was a group of young men killing several Crows in the park where people sit all day outside wollies,i could not stand to see birds killed for fun,so i went over and picked one poor bird up that was alive and said to the people wtf are you doing,one stood up with a 50 cents rapper t shirt and said F-off,what can you do,that poor bird died in the front seat of my ute on the way to the RSPCA at fairfield,another time i walked into one of the shops and was told we don't serve white people ,i feel sorry for all the old people that live in that area and paided tax all their life to see this happen,most don't shop at wollies anymore,anyone that kills crows with ratsack for fun needs help in a big way..willair..
 
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It open your eyes when you go for a walk around Moorooka,the last time i was there last week..

Will, five years ago I would have gone to the auction of 35 Dinmore St, Moorooka this week.

But Moorooka is red flagged these days.

I really wish the social engineering elites who are responsible for concentrating disadvantaged humanitarian migrants into one neighbourhood, would concentrate them in their street. Then these elites could justify their moral superiority by helping these unfortunates all week into the ways of a technologically developed economy.

However, I am 120% sure that will never happen, which is why we bought yesterday in a neighbourhood with a high portion of elite public servants. :)y

In fact, I am door knocking next week in Peter Beattie's street, informing we are interested in buying any residence privately. ;)

As an aside, amazing what happens when you go door knocking, or even walking. Was inspecting a friend's overgrown IP yesterday arvo, and went for a walk up the dead end street on the side of Mt Coot-tha. To cut a long story short, an older lady was waiting near the vacant 1/4 acre block at the very end. She asked if I was the REA, which I wasn't. We got talking and she mentions she wants an appraisal to sell the land.

She had my name and phone number within 2minutes, and knew how much money she'd save if we settled privately.. .I could see the $ signs in her eyes. I've almost completed my searches and so far it is the only vacant lot adjoining Mt Coot-tha in the western suburbs....
 
Yeah the Indian thing or whatever it is going on in Melbourne right now is criminal.
The majority of those poor guys these days no sooner jump of a plane and they're studying medicine or something, plus doing 12 hr shifts at seven eleven or in cabs a day after getting here.
They've always seemed a peaceful harmless people to me , very hard working , very intelligent . Sure there's always a few bad apples in anyone but over all.
I've jumped into cabs where the driver was off a plane only 48hrs before and his been driving 9 or 10hrs that day after studying all night . All over a city his never seen in his life , and he'll try to help you !

It's heartbreaking really because they would deserve it least of all in my eyes.Once again though, although the cops and Gov' would for sure know it's this group or that , they can't say as much publicly, yet it reflects on the city as a whole and Australians just like the tennis .

Cheers
 
Yeah the Indian thing or whatever it is going on in Melbourne right now is criminal.
The majority of those poor guys these days no sooner jump of a plane and they're studying medicine or something, plus doing 12 hr shifts at seven eleven or in cabs a day after getting here.
They've always seemed a peaceful harmless people to me , very hard working , very intelligent . Sure there's always a few bad apples in anyone but over all.
I've jumped into cabs where the driver was off a plane only 48hrs before and his been driving 9 or 10hrs that day after studying all night . All over a city his never seen in his life , and he'll try to help you !

It's heartbreaking really because they would deserve it least of all in my eyes.Once again though, although the cops and Gov' would for sure know it's this group or that , they can't say as much publicly, yet it reflects on the city as a whole and Australians just like the tennis .

Cheers

Yes- I like the Indians because they understand how our system works, speak English and don't mind hard work. (A bit of racial stereotyping there- woops)The reason they are attacked is because the redneck inbreds know the Indians are generally a peace loving lot. Try attacking one of the Moorooka connection and see if they adopt Ghandi style passive non violent resistance or beat the living daylights out of you.
 
Cu@thetop,
Well done, and very well said.
Kudos to both you and WW for your views on this very touchy subject.
I won't enter this debate, as I can't put my thoughts as eloquently as some of you. But let it be said that there would be in, Australia, the vast majority of people who share the views, feelings, concerns of WW an Cu@thetop.
For what it's worth, I fly the Australian flag at home every day. I fly the Australian flag from my car on Australia Day. I accept immigration, but not in it's current form. I do NOT class myself as a redneck, I do NOT find the Australian flag is in any way an Australian Swastika, as one poster likened it. I am not ashamed of my views, and LOVE my country dearly.
Amy

way to stay out of the debate there amy
 
Good on you WW,




You would think so but I won't be holding my breath.



This is THE most frustrating thing I find about migration. They flock together but can't live together.

You then have the parents teaching their Australian born children the hatreds that led them to abandon their own war torn countries in the first place.

Regards JO

Regards JO

Not being a tad simplistic there Josko ?

I mean you don't do this sort of dumb **** to your kids do you ?

Must say somehting about the actual lack of intellect of the migrants who do hey ?
 
Dont really want to get involved in this debate (except to say that I'm surprised that some of the more enlightened posters on this forum have surprisingly narrow minded and somewhat racist views).

But I did want to share this interesting article from Business Spectator this week about immigration, which was a good read:

________________________

Alan Kohler

How to crush an export boom
Feb 10

Just when you might have thought the policy shambles that is wrecking Australia’s third biggest export industry – education – couldn’t get worse, the Immigration Minister Chris Evans has hopped on a bulldozer to finish the job.

The changes to Australia’s skilled migration program announced this week have brought such confusion to the business of student visas and occupational immigration that many operators of this $16 billion export industry are in complete despair.

It is an enduring myth that right-wing governments are xenophobic and left-wing ones are more tolerant to immigration. That is just the image they each assiduously project through high-profile actions on refugees that pander to their constituents.

In fact, the reverse is true: both the coalition and the ALP appear to use immigration as a tool of their industrial relations ideologies.

Between 2000 and 2003, when the Howard government was embroiled in controversy after controversy about asylum seekers, including the children overboard affair and riots at detention centres, it was simultaneously opening the floodgates of Australia’s skilled migration program.

Since taking power in 2007, the Rudd government has carefully crafted a softer image on asylum seekers while closing the door on skilled migrants (Ponzi colleagues, November 11, 2009) .

Why? Well, there’s spin – being tough/soft on asylum seekers, who represent an inconsequential fraction of permanent arrivals, and then there’s reality – being soft/tough on unions.

The opening up of the education route for skilled migration in 2001 had two underlying purposes: to help offset the ageing of the population (migrants under 30 were most favoured) and to reduce the power of unions and drive down real wages by increasing the pool of non-union labour.

There’s little doubt that the changes announced this week were driven by the unions.

Immigration Minister Chris Evans had already sharply reduced the number of student visas and permanent residencies issued, resulting in the collapse of 14 private colleges over the past six months.

Some of these, it’s true, were accidents waiting to happen. But all of the legitimate education providers, including tier one universities, have seen a drastic fall in revenues and many are in trouble.

That’s been exacerbated by the spate of assaults against Indians in Melbourne. I understand applications from young Indians for student visas have basically stopped dead; Indians used to represent about 30 per cent of college revenues.

The problem for the government is that the queue for visas grew so large that it would now fill the MCG, and then some – it’s understood applications for permanent residency (PR) now total more than 100,000 and under the Howard government’s policy, all applications had to be processed, one at a time.

The particular Howard/Ruddock twist, designed to pressure the unions, was that all the applicants then got PR. The new Labor government simply started taking longer to process them and knocked a lot of them back.

Chris Evans said this week that new reforms are designed to reduced the queue.

Firstly 20,000 applicants from the Howard government years (pre-September 2007) will get their applications torn up and their money back. This is unheard of, anywhere in the world.

In addition, the 'Migration Occupations in Demand List ' (MODL) of occupations has been abolished and the larger 'Skilled Occupations List' (SOL) will be reduced. The fact that changes to the SOL list have been flagged but not finalised has produced howls of outrage and despair from education providers, who now face months of crushing uncertainty.

To get permanent residency under the system set up by Phillip Ruddock, a 'skilled migrant' had to get 120 points.

Those under 30 started with 25 points, and the better your English skills, the more points you got. A qualification on the SOL list is worth 60 points.

The SOL list of occupations that are worth 60 points is huge: from accountant to zoologist, health worker, editor, singer, sculptor, gasfitter, gunsmith, gardener, vehicle trimmer, cook, hairdresser – you name it. Every possible occupation is there.

And then there was the MODL list, which was worth an extra 15 points. This was a smaller list of occupations most in demand. All of them are on the SOL, but if an applicant has one of those, they got a bonus of 15 points.

The reality was that someone looking for permanent residency couldn’t quite get across the line with just something on the SOL list unless they had fluent English and were under 30. Anyone over 30 who couldn’t rattle through The Man From Snowy River while sounding like Paul Hogan, couldn’t get enough points.

The MODL list got many of these people across the line. And the controversy has been that the occupations on the MODL don’t just include surgeons, psychiatrists, plumbers, electricians and bricklayers – skills we clearly need more of – but also hairdressing and cookery.

It is this list, and those points, plus Phillip Ruddock’s decree in 2002 that an applicant doesn’t have to go back home to apply for residency, and instead could just stay in Australia to do it, that has produced the mushrooming of Australia’s education industry.

The result was that a bunch of shonky colleges sprang up offering simply cooking and hairdressing courses that were merely designed to get the student the extra 15 MODL points. In some cases they were like Ponzi schemes, in which a constant flow of new fees were needed to pay teachers’ salaries. When Chris Evans clamped down on visas last year they quickly collapsed.

It’s also fair to say that you wouldn’t want to eat the cooking of some of their graduates or get a haircut from them: most of the alumni ended up driving taxis and cleaning houses (including mine, as it happens – a fine young Indian accountant who is also a whizz with a vacuum cleaner).

In my earlier article, I described them as 'Australia’s Mexicans' – a reference to the illegal immigrants who clean the houses of Americans and drive their taxis.

They also seem to take jobs away from Australian unionists and tend to drive down wages – which of course was the purpose of the policy in the first place.

But as with a lot of economics, things are not always what they seem. Last year, the Australian Council of Private Education and Training commissioned a report from Access Economics on the economic impact of skilled migration.

Access found that the students spent $13.7 billion in 2007-08 and visiting friends and family spent $365.8 million, and that far from taking away jobs of Australians, they generated 122,000 extra jobs.

So the flow-on impact of the destruction of the export education industry through a combination of Labor government and union policy and racist assaults in Melbourne will be very large and very unpredictable.
 
So the flow-on impact of the destruction of the export education industry through a combination of Labor government and union policy and racist assaults in Melbourne will be very large and very unpredictable.

it is a good thing this education industry fracas is collapsing.....both fed govts were too incompetent and money hungry to regulate the colleges, and were greedy happy to take the money of poor developing nation students.

it was not only immoral, but spineless and racist for both govts not to take a stronger regulatory stance in what went on.

and then, for all levels of govt to come out and claim Indian students getting bashed isn't racially motivated, is beaucratic small minded idiocy of the highest calibre.

For all those calling others racist here, I don't know why they aren't doing the same to the government galahs dealing with this now.

I have a lot of respect for many aspects of Indian culture, history, and religion....but not their version of bureacracy.......I spent 8 months there nearly 20 years ago......and know many very noble and intelligent Indians. and I am embarassed and angry at the way our government has dealt with the violence dealt upon the students that come here.

Sorry if that sounds racist to some.
 
it is a good thing this education industry fracas is collapsing.....both fed govts were too incompetent and money hungry to regulate the colleges, and were greedy happy to take the money of poor developing nation students.

it was not only immoral, but spineless and racist for both govts not to take a stronger regulatory stance in what went on.

and then, for all levels of govt to come out and claim Indian students getting bashed isn't racially motivated, is beaucratic small minded idiocy of the highest calibre.

For all those calling others racist here, I don't know why they aren't doing the same to the government galahs dealing with this now.

I have a lot of respect for many aspects of Indian culture, history, and religion....but not their version of bureacracy.......I spent 8 months there nearly 20 years ago......and know many very noble and intelligent Indians. and I am embarassed and angry at the way our government has dealt with the violence dealt upon the students that come here.

Sorry if that sounds racist to some.

cause "the govt" isn't having a debate/conversation here on the topic and therefore is not part of the conversation ?

What do you think those who think racism exists also think tha govt is exempt from it ? :confused:
 
Amy non one said the flag is a swastika

even a swastika is just a symbol, it's what it represents,Nazis and their crimes etc, that is not nice.

they were saying some pple basically treat it like one when they use it in certain ways.
 
even a swastika is just a symbol, it's what it represents,Nazis and their crimes etc, that is not nice.

Interestingly, the Swastika was (and in many places, still is) used as a 'positive' symbol in many Eastern religions and communities.

It's what the symbol represented to the Nazi's the made all the difference... similar, in some ways, to the Southern Cross Soldiers with the Southern Cross and Australian flag.
 
I think I've seen someting of the swastika in ancient christianity as well, not sure, can't remember where I am thinking I saw it (in pciture form, not in person)
 
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