White guilt and racism double-standards

[WinstonWolfe]

I think multiculturalism is not that wanting to "adopt" other cultures' religion, historical perspective, laws or lifestyle and work ethic, but to "accept" it and get on with how we do things without criticising them for being different.

and I think most people would agree with you that they don't want to adopt another culture's ways...........

which is why a dominant culture feels threatened if another cultural group grows significantly in population, and political and economic power. That's what happened in Malaysia in the 1960s and measures were taken to stop it.

 

[willfong]

That's good to hear, and was probably hard to do. Unfortunately a lot of your countrymen seem to be passionately embroiled in bygone battles. Given the history of the area it's understandable I guess, but it sure would be nice if the younger generation can start afresh and try not to pass down centuries old bitterness and feuding.

Are you implying that her countrymen are only those who come from the same country as her parents and the other Australians are not her countrymen? Or that her country is the one that her parents came from and not Australia?

I am a migrant myself. I chose to make the pledge to Australia and became a citizen about 6 years ago (as soon as I became eiligible). One of my pet peeves are people who don't consider citizens with ethnic background as real Australians. This is typically the same group of people complaining about how ethnic migrants do not assimilate. You can help speed up the assimilation process by treating us as one of you rather than as outsiders.

Now that I have let go of my rants I must say that most of Australia treat the minority relatively well. It's definitely much better here in this regard compared to the country I was born in, which is part of the reason why I chose to call Australia home.

 

[Simon]

Are you implying that her countrymen are only those who come from the same country as her parents and the other Australians are not her countrymen? Or that her country is the one that her parents came from and not Australia?

I am a migrant myself. I chose to make the pledge to Australia and became a citizen about 6 years ago (as soon as I became eiligible). One of my pet peeves are people who don't consider citizens with ethnic background as real Australians. This is typically the same group of people complaining about how ethnic migrants do not assimilate. You can help speed up the assimilation process by treating us as one of you rather than as outsiders.

Now that I have let go of my rants I must say that most of Australia treat the minority relatively well. It's definitely much better here in this regard compared to the country I was born in, which is part of the reason why I chose to call Australia home.

I reckon you are probably a better Australian than some of those born here.

I cringe when I see what is happening these days. The Southern Cross was once a beautiful symbol but is now the Australian Swastika.

But this is happening in lots of places. Some see it as national pride but I see it as something insidious. I am not always proud to be Australian.

I'd happily live in another country for a while and indeed I have. I'd even retire somewhere else. Would even do so right now if not for family ties.

 

[Aaron Sice]

maybe it's the heat?

i dunno - it just seems - generally - the closer you get to the equator, the more racist everyone becomes.

USA - southern states.
Australia - northern regions
Africa - Sierra Leone >>>> Ethiopia
Indonesia
Sri Lanka

i'll say right here - i don't give a flying f**k where you're from. if you can't display common decencies, put in a solid days work for a solid day's pay or make life difficult for others - or all of the above - then my view of you is low.

having black skin, different shaped eyes, glasses, a mohawk, orange robes or a houndstooth teatowel wrapped around your head makes no difference to me.

using the term "culture" to explain differences is just another term for "my excuse for being a knob" - i don't accept "cultural differences" as an excuse to bully someone at whatever extreme.

culture is art, mythology, music, language, dress, food - not behaviour.

you're either a human being or you're not. expecting someone to "learn the language" because "they" live in "your" country is racist - period. sure, it'd be great if everyone knew english, maybe a bit easier, but it's not feasible for most. i'm sure they'll pick it up over time, just as you would pick up Nila-Saharan in time if you lived in the Sudan. why not go and learn cantonese or vietnamese or aryan?

 

[Amadio]

Are you implying that her countrymen are only those who come from the same country as her parents and the other Australians are not her countrymen? Or that her country is the one that her parents came from and not Australia?

Nikolina said that her family have a Croatia/Bosnia background. In plain and perhaps old fashioned english that is just called "countrymen". No insult intended.

One of the down sides of immigration is an influx of thin skins.

 

[joanmc]

Nikolina said that her family have a Croatia/Bosnia background. In plain and perhaps old fashioned english that is just called "countrymen". No insult intended.

One of the down sides of immigration is an influx of thin skins.

It is not about being thin skinned at all. Willfong has made a completely valid point that few "aussies" seem to get.

The assumption is that if you aren't white you aren't an Aussie. Just look at Kissfan's post "when 'foreigners" call someone white an expletive" Those "foreigners could be 2nd , 3rd or even 4th generation australians! But if they aren't white then they are "foreigners"

My kids get this all the time at school. ON my side they are 7th generation aussie (first fleeters in fact) they could only be more aussie if they were indigenous. On their dad's side 2nd gen aussie BUT because they are not white they are told to get back on their boat and go home (once by a kiwi kid). I have been asked where they come from? did I give birth to them? And don't get me started on the social ostracism meted out to those of us who marry outside our "race"

I always thought Australia was a kind, fair go kind of place but I have seen the other side.

My first child was given needles in the hospital, without my permission, because she was an ethnic and when I questioned the staff it was because of her asian blood! And that was hospital policy. No Exceptions. My GP was livid but her hands were tied.

How would those of you with kids feel about having your choice taken away because of the colour of your skin? It happens here.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

You gotta move away from Caboolture Joan

 

[garygoodbloke]

My kids get this all the time at school. ON my side they are 7th generation aussie (first fleeters in fact) they could only be more aussie if they were indigenous. On their dad's side 2nd gen aussie BUT because they are not white they are told to get back on their boat and go home (once by a kiwi kid). I have been asked where they come from? did I give birth to them? And don't get me started on the social ostracism meted out to those of us who marry outside our "race"

Wow, didn't realise this stuff was going on. I went to private schools and I can't remember hearing this stuff much. In fact, growing up, my best friend was half Cambodian half Lebanese, he stayed over at our place and I stayed over at his.

I only remember one student yelling the word: "Guk" out the window when the school bus went through Chinatown. He always got into trouble for loads of stuff.

Other than that, I remember growing up with a lot of international friends or second generation Aussies.

 

[vsdabhi]

I have seen alot of racism around Australia. Moreso out in the sticks (say, WeeWaa, Moree, Armidale, Toowomba), then in Canberra. But I do have friends of different ethnic backgrounds who have definitely experience it here in Canberra as well - usually it is much more "hidden" behind politeness and political correctness, then I have observed in regional Australia.

Having said that I don't believe that Australia is any worse then any other country. I particularly resent when Armerican's take a shot at Australia for so called racist behaviours (especially seeing as we have too very different cultural backgrounds and they often completely miss the point in their critisim). The pot calling the kettle black I think.

I often find myself very uncomfortable with DH's siblings / relatives, who will come out with racist remarks and then completely deny that they are in any way shaape or form racist because "I know a black / indian / (insert nationality of choice here) from somewhere and we're mates, so it is [somehow] alright for me to say these things / tell this joke." They honestly don't believe that they are racist, but you can see in their behaviour and language that the issue of race certainly does impact negative on their beliefs about people.

One of my project superintendents used to say, "I like you but I hate Indians, but I am not recist". I cann't understant if someone makes this type of comments and says I am not recist. Hard to believe.
Thanks.

 

[joanmc]

You gotta move away from Caboolture Joan

LOL that's for sure! Sadly I was living in Alexandra Hills when my first daughter was born....didn't realise it was third world there!

 

[jaycee]

I don't think Australia is multicultural at all. We have a dominate english speaking anglo saxon culture. Migrants are expected to drop their language and assimilate.

We aren't multicultural like the USA, Canada, England, or Malaysia.
We don't have a significant non anglo culture that represents a sizeable portion of our population, like the USA.

Canada has a significant portion of French speaking. We have nothing like that.

If anyone thinks Australia is multicultural, then you should write to national broadcaster and ask why all their weather girls are white with Australian accents, and when we might see a non white weather girl dressed in a hijab and a newsreader wearing a turban.

What if we don't want to ask ?

What if we who think we are lmutlictural in Australia just want to keep living in this world and call it multicultural, depsite you not thinking it is ?
I mean, thats what's been happening around you for so long anyway

oh boy

 

[jaycee]

How does their 6.30pm news audience ratings share validate Australia's multiculturalism?

How do their top ten rating programs validate Australia's multiculturalism?
1 TOP GEAR rpt (Monday) 685
2 MAN VS WILD 664
3 DESTINATION: FIFA WORLD CUP 461
4 ADBC BITESIZE 427
5 WOLRD NEWS AUSTRALIA LATE 284
6 ROCKWIZ 284
7 MYTHBUSTERS 280
8 TOP GEAR (Friday) 268
9 LUKE NGUYEN’S VIETNAM 261
10 WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

As I said originally, we have a dominate white anglo culture.
and migrants are expected to integrate.

GGG, I've lived and worked in the countries I mentioned, so I have a broader understanding of multiculturalism than stats reveal, and some here seem to.

What Australians like to self congratulate themselves on as multiculturalism, is the result of a blinkered existence and decades of govt propaganda, imho.

Multiculturalism is more than a range of ethnic restaurants, half of NZ's male workforce, and a few hundred thousand UK, Sth African, and Canadian skilled migrants.

When Australia has several cultures represented by political parties competing to preserve their culture, and the ABC has a weather girl in a hijab, then we might be approaching multiculturalism.

So what do you recommend we do Winston ? Forget the defintion / name of what we have, how do we get more mutlicultural ?

I rckon we jsut keep gong like we're going and let nature takes it course, I think we're pretty much on the right sort of track .

What's your suggestion ?

 

[jaycee]

OK, I'm going to say something that's obviously going to sound completely outrageous. But why shouldn't foreigners be expected to integrate? I don't see anything wrong with that. I wouldn't go to another country (to live, not to just visit) without learning the language and respecting their culture. If I did not respect their culture and their values I simply would not go there. Why can't people from other countries pay us the same respect?

? and they haven't they been doing that ?

 

[jaycee]

I just wish that people from other countries wouldn't bring their wars into our country.

and I wish the world and life was that simple and people less naive, but we cant have everything can we ?

 

[Aaron Sice]

OK, I'm going to say something that's obviously going to sound completely outrageous. But why shouldn't foreigners be expected to integrate? I don't see anything wrong with that. I wouldn't go to another country (to live, not to just visit) without learning the language and respecting their culture. If I did not respect their culture and their values I simply would not go there. Why can't people from other countries pay us the same respect?

it takes TIME to integrate - up to 10 years for older migrants.

should we just stuff them in detention until they know the queen's english and understand capitalism and the nuances of the property market before we allow them in?

there's a big difference between one generation migrating out of hope for a new life, and the immediately-following generation angry at the entire world for the greivances their parents suffered in migrating, looking to blame anyone and anything...

it's the children of migrants that cause secular positions in communities because of they way their parents were treated when they arrived.

food for thought.

 

[willfong]

Nikolina said that her family have a Croatia/Bosnia background. In plain and perhaps old fashioned english that is just called "countrymen". No insult intended.

One of the down sides of immigration is an influx of thin skins.

I am sure you didn't mean any offense. Like I said it's my pet peeve so I may be more sensitive to it. Thin skin is a personality trait and has nothing to do with being a migrant or being born here.

The assumption is that if you aren't white you aren't an Aussie.

That's exactly what I was trying to say.

It's a bit disheartening for the people who do try to integrate (especially the 2nd generation) to be treated as a foreigner despite our effort to fit in. Don't these people realise that the non white Australians (especially 2nd generation onward) probably have much more in common with them than they do with their so called 'countrymen' from their parents/grandparents country of birth.

Oh and thanks Simon.

 

[BayView]

This is just an observation from a far but anything you see on the States even in movies, it's always as if the whites have to tip toe around blacks, guilt and political correctness but blacks can treat whites any way they want these days , language and insults anyway. I don't know if that's really the case or not.

Cheers

Your observation is correct.

 

[Simon]

One of my project superintendents used to say, "I like you but I hate Indians, but I am not recist". I cann't understant if someone makes this type of comments and says I am not recist. Hard to believe.
Thanks.

The statement "I am not racist but ....." is the sign of a true racist.

 

[wobbycarly]

If anyone thinks Australia is multicultural, then you should write to national broadcaster and ask why all their weather girls are white with Australian accents, and when we might see a non white weather girl dressed in a hijab and a newsreader wearing a turban.

I think this is a silly way to measure - would you expect to see a white girl with an Aussie accent reading the weather in English on the news in France, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, etc (anywhere that English is not the predominant language)?

 

[wobbycarly]

Further to this, my relatively small workplace (about 30) has a Turk, Irishman, Vietnamese, Indian, Frenchman, Philipino and a swag of 2nd generation Bosnians, Greeks and Italians. I consider us to be multi-cultural as we respect each others beliefs, customs, religions, etc, but when it comes to work the expectations are the same on everyone.