White guilt and racism double-standards

[Raja]

- I don't care stongly where migrants come from as long as they have thought hard about why they want to come to Australia, with its predominant anglo Christian heritage and values, and english language.....and after thinking hard about it, have determined they want the opportunity and freedom our prevailing system offers more than they want to hold to the values and system they are so motivated to flee.

- I expect migrants to study, understand, and respect Australia's Anglo Christian heritage, and its role in evolving the political, legal, law enforcement, health care, and education system that has delivered us all the benefits of the democracy we enjoy today. Sure, I accept it isn't perfect, but show me anywhere else in the world that is better....and why we should change our system.

I have not met many people in Australia who actually respect and follow the Christian heritage or values. I looked up Wikipedia to see what it meant:

Today, in the 21st century, the phrases "Christian values" and family values are being used by conservative political groups [1] [2] [3] to describe the following values:

censorship of sexual content, especially in movies and on television

the desirability of laws against induced abortion

sexual abstinence outside of marriage and abstinence-only education[4]

the promotion of intelligent design to be taught in public schools and colleges as an "alternative" to evolution

the desirability of laws against same-sex marriage and support for laws against the acceptance of homosexuality into mainstream society

the desirability of re-instituting faculty-led prayer in taxpayer-funded schools[5]

Are these the types of values that you yourself follow and expect all migrants to do the same?

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Don't expect much, do you?

You are free to place as little value on Australian citizenship as you desire.

Honestly, the question isn't what do you expect of immigrants, but ratherdo you expect the same from those born and bred in Australia, regardless of race, religion, sex, etc...

I don't see many born and bred Australians fleeing the nation to migrate somewhere else.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Are these the types of values that you yourself follow and expect all migrants to do the same?

If that's the extent of your reading and comprehension of Australian social history, constitutional law, and political science Raja, you illustrate my concerns beautifully.

 

[Raja]

If that's the extent of your reading and comprehension of Australian social history, constitutional law, and political science Raja, you illustrate my concerns beautifully.

So you agree that Australian social history/ culture has been evolving and will continue to evolve as more migrants enter?

Always remember that Australia was first settled by the aborigines. Why did the first migrants not follow their culture and way of life when they first came here?

Anyways Australia will continue to evolve its own culture and way of life and you will just need to adjust to it.

 

[rugrat]

I don't see many born and bred Australians fleeing the nation to migrate somewhere else.

I know many born and bred Aussies who are complete tosser's and I would happily throw them overseas if given the chance (a great majority of those I personally have come across have been of anglo-saxon descent, like myself). These same people show alot less respect for this country then many immigrants I know.

As for Aussies migrating elsewhere, I know a few (including a bro and a sister). I also know many others who are permanent residents elsewhere, and would become citizens, but are unable to for various reasons.

For what it is worth, while I strongly believe rasicism is alive and kicking in Australia, I also believe that we are by no means as bad as some other parts of the world.


I might also add that my father is an immigrant. He is from England, but he is still an immigrant. I have grown up surrounded by other cultures, because my parents have always had alot of friends who have immigrated to Australia from various countries. The fact is that the majority of the population are descendants of immigrants at some staage or another, and that is where out "predominantly christian culture" comes from in the first place.

How much defferrence and respect is held for the Dreamtime and aboriginal people and culture? There is definitely tension between a huge portion of the aboriginal community and the rest of the population. And I have witnessed much racism against aboriginals AND against "white" people, sometimes from people who have claim to both (or more) heritages.

My little sister was beaten up for being "white" by a group of young (12-15yr old) aboriginals. That is just as racist as a group of "white" people bashing up someone because they are black, indian, whatever.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

So you agree that Australian social history/ culture has been evolving and will continue to evolve as more migrants enter?

And Raja, which foreign values do you think Australia needs to evolve to attract even moreso the downtrodden from around the world?

- belittling of women such as removing their right to education and the vote?
- cruelty and disrespect for animals such as the Gadhimai Festival?
- non transparent elections?
- graft and corruption throughout govt and commerce?
- military dictatorship or communist rule by self appointed and armed psychopathic elites?

Our immigration history shows our Anglo Christian value based systems have been very attractive to migrants for many many decades Raja.

If people felt other values, like Hinduism and Islam, were of a more highly evolved order, they'd migrate to India and Pakistan. But they don't, do they? of course, maybe the Taliban prefer to migrate to Pakistan.

Always remember that Australia was first settled by the aborigines.

Australia was first settled by frogs and other amphibians, before their numbers were depleted by frog eating vertebrates, like the Aborigine...not that there's anything wrong with eating frogs....ask the French.

Why did the first migrants not follow their culture and way of life when they first came here?

Qe?

Anyways Australia will continue to evolve its own culture and way of life and you will just need to adjust to it.

Evolve our own culture? But aren't we multicultural?

There's a lot more to culture than you seem to embrace Raj......A country's legal and political system, its approach to maintaining law and order, its approach to inequality.....these things aren't determined by one's accent, folk dance, head wear, or what's for dinner.

 

[Amadio]

I have not met many people in Australia who actually respect and follow the Christian heritage or values. I looked up Wikipedia to see what it meant:
....Are these the types of values that you yourself follow and expect all migrants to do the same?

Raja, what you read on Wikipedia is a very narrow version of "christian heritage"
and one that exists only in extremely conservative,fundamentalist, and usually American, communities.

This in no way reflects what Australian values are and in some cases is diametrically opposite. It's like taking the fundamentalist version of Islam and thinking that all Muslims live and believe in those "values".

 

[Amadio]

These are my views.

Mine too. Well said, Mr Wolfe.

 

[Raja]

And Raja, which foreign values do you think Australia needs to evolve to attract even moreso the downtrodden from around the world?

It may or may not be foreign values which the Aussie values will evolve to. We may end up creating our own unique way of living. No one is perfect and no country is perfect. As time goes on things should always keep changing for the better.

For example, were woman always allowed to vote in Australia? Well they are now and this is a change for the better. But I am sure there were people just like you at that point in time who would have kept saying no we must not change Australia, let's leave it the way it is.

What I am saying is don't expect that what is normal now to be the norm in another 50 years. You will need to accept that Australia will continue to change it's values and what it considers to be "Aussie Values".

It wont be possible to take a snapshot of Australia as it is today and say this is how it will stay forever.

 

[weg]

Excellent post WW.

If I invited a person in need, who was also very different to me, into my home, I would still expect some sort of effort on their behalf, to intergrate and live harmoniously with my family. I would also invite them only if I was able to do so ie. funds, facilities.

The expectations I would have would not be racist, nor would they mean I would want to deny them of their cultural beliefs or customs if they are respecting my core values in my home.

Conflicts arise when these two are out of kilter and expectations not clear.

 

[battler]

What happened to the old practice of, "When in Rome do as Rome does"?

 

[kissfan]

What happened to the old practice of, "When in Rome do as Rome does"?

Apparently, that only applies in Rome

Regards
Marty

 

[Raja]

What happened to the old practice of, "When in Rome do as Rome does"?

Well this did not sit well with the first British migrants and set a trend for all migrants after them.

 

[rugrat]

What happened to the old practice of, "When in Rome do as Rome does"?

The problem being the Roman's are doing a thousdand different things.


I agree with WW in regards to an immigrant having respect for the legal and political systems. I just question wether these systems even get that respect from those born here....

 

[garygoodbloke]

I, for the most part, agree with WW. The question then becomes how do you implement, check, police, and regulate all those points on the list?

Perhaps we should colonise Tasmania and send all the criminals, misfits and malcontents down there.

Wait a minute, I think we already have...

I kid, I kid!!

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Well this did not sit well with the first British migrants and set a trend for all migrants after them.

Unlike migrants of today Raj, the first British migrants weren't migrating to an easier life.

And Australia was ripe to be settled by any nation pre 1800....India, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, USA, England, Europe, etc, etc.....anyone could have come here.

But it was the English who had evolved the values, knowledge, technical skills, and 'vision' to see that the human carrying capacity of Australia was a lot higher than Aborigines considered.

Raj, if Australia was still ruled by 400,000 Aborigines living true to Aboriginal culture, which would be a big ask because they spoke over 600 different dialects, you'd be saying how racist and selfish they are to have all this land to themselves when other countries keep conceiving beyond the carrying capacity of their homeland.

Further, I bet you a dollar you wouldn't be living in Australia if Aboriginal culture reined, and insisted you live in a gunyah and eat witchety grubs and goanna......and accepted payback and spearing in the gizzards for being naughty....and didn't mind having your women and children kidnapped by a stronger tribe across the river.

Let's face it. you are in Australia because you saw the laws, equality, education, and economy of Australia as superior to anywhere else on the planet you could be. And all that good stuff was brought to you by the values that developed in England.

God Save Our Gracious Queen

 

[wobbycarly]

God Save Our Gracious Queen

Wow, you ARE asking for trouble. Look out for the Republicans!!

 

[Slim Pikins]

G'day

I might be wrong but I thought that the first British people to arrive were not immigrants, but people who were taking over the country to create a bloody big gaol/jail to put all their criminals in?

Slim

 

[Raja]

But it was the English who had evolved the values, knowledge, technical skills, and 'vision' to see that the human carrying capacity of Australia was a lot higher than Aborigines considered.

Further, I bet you a dollar you wouldn't be living in Australia if Aboriginal culture reined, and insisted you live in a gunyah and eat witchety grubs and goanna......and accepted payback and spearing in the gizzards for being naughty....and didn't mind having your women and children kidnapped by a stronger tribe across the river.

I agree that the English did do some good work in Australia but they also made mistakes. However as I have said, things changed and improved with time as they will continue to do so in the future for the better of Australia.

 

[willfong]

I agree with WW's list of expectations except that as rugrat pointed out, the same should be expected from everyone and not just the migrants!

- I expect migrants come here to start a new life of new hope, rather than cling to the prejudices, nationalism, and fighting they may be fleeing.

True. So why are we still clinging to the Queen of England? Can't wait til the next referendum on republic.