Who is responsible

So I had an incident with 1 of my ip's 2months ago

The internal roof plaster*on the carport collapsed. The insurance are refusing to pay due to lack of maintenance*

I have gone down to the ip with a repairer to inspect *and taken a lot of photos and it's raising a lot of concerns.*

I'm no builder but from what I can see, and from reading the inspectors report, he is blaming the vine growth through the pointing to be the cause of the collapse.

I gave permission to the tenant to cut down the vine bush a while ago but no notice was given to me from the tenant or the pm that while removing the vines out that they noticed the vines had entered the roof. When the tenant asked to reloved the vines the pm told the tenant if they want to remove it then that's by there choice and at there own expense

The tenant removed the main part of the vines but left the parts of the vines that had entered the roof, just cutting them close to the roof edge.*

I was not told there could be an issue *or that they entered the roof.*

we also believe that the roof
Would not have just collapsed overnight, that the roof was already partially damaged and was bowing down for a while before it gave way and collapsed being left without attention

Now the questions I have
1) is it the tenants responsibility to maintain/ prune all plants an vegetation on the property?

2) does the tenant have an obligation to report this as a possible issue

3) with the 6monthly inspections should the pm's inspection picked up the overgrown vine and / or picked up that the vine had entered the roof cavity

4) could the expense to repair this be pushed back onto the pm and tenant for failing to properly inspect the property or notify me of any possible issues.
 
You don't specifically mention it, other than to hint with the carport, but I gather this is a residential property and hence falls under the RTA legislation.

That being the case, you as the Landlord, are completely stuffed.

The RTA protects the Tenant. There's no joy there for you.

The management authority you signed with the PM protects the PM. There's no joy for you there either.


A residential Tenant is only partially responsible for breathing for themselves. Everything else is in your lap. Enjoy !!

I see you are in Victoria...good luck with that.

Answers ;

1) No

2) No

3) No

4) No


In future, with residential property, if you are ever wondering who is finncially responsible for something to do with the property, 99.5% of the time if you guess the Owner, you'll be spot on.
 
Now the questions I have
1) is it the tenants responsibility to maintain/ prune all plants an vegetation on the property?
No

2) does the tenant have an obligation to report this as a possible issue
Only if they are aware of it. They may be unaware .....try proving that.

3) with the 6monthly inspections should the pm's inspection picked up the overgrown vine and / or picked up that the vine had entered the roof cavity
Possibly. Recently a PM was held partially responsible for a deck collapse. The LL was responsible too.

4) could the expense to repair this be pushed back onto the pm and tenant for failing to properly inspect the property or notify me of any possible issues.
Possibly some % for the PM but 0% for the tenant.
 
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What exactly is common sense?

Friend of mine was involved in a (non investment property related) court case and he was saying it was common sense and the lawyer came back with there is no sense common to all people.

Regards
Sheryn
 
Thats way I thought would be the case.

Luckily it's not effecting the property so no rush to fix it.

My plan is to get my own inspection to hopefully contest the insurance being declined

I am going to sit with the pm this week to make them aware of there neglegance in the case and that I'll be looking into it further
 
My plan is to get my own inspection to hopefully contest the insurance being declined

I am going to sit with the pm this week to make them aware of there neglegance in the case and that I'll be looking into it further


So you're up against an insurance contract, trying to convince the solicitors from the insurance company who wrote the document with the sole intention of limiting their liability to you to nil, that you know it better than themselves.

....and, you're up against a management contract, trying to convince the solicitors from the REIV who wrote it with the sole intention of limiting their liability to you to nil, that you know it better than themselves.

Good luck with both of those !!
 
Unless the agent got up in the roof cavity - which they are under no obligation to do so - how would they know the vine had entered?

I think you'll just have to wear it and move on.
 
unless owners want to start paying PMs accordingly, then they cannot be expected to be fully qualified experts in every building field. You had to bring in an expert to determine that the fault was a result of the vines getting into the roof cavity.

The PM's responsibility is to have a broad over view of issues that can commonly occur within a property for example they should be able to determine water leakages (in most cases), they should be able to know that separating floors from walls may mean a problem with the stumps etc but that is it. We are not qualified building inspectors, we should not be required to crawl into roof spaces, under floors etc, sorry but that is the owners responsibility to engage a licensed professional to thoroughly inspect the property once every few years.

I am afraid you are going to have to wear this one.
 
Another thing I would like to point out on top of everything already stated is, never ever have the tenant climbing on the roof.

Anything that requires standing on top of a roof or climbing a tree to cut branches should always be outsourced to a trades person who has adequate public liability for these kind of things.

Could you imagine the strife you could've been in if the tenant fell off the roof?

Also, if it is a roof cavity as you stated (Ie - Tiled roof with plaster board ceiling) it would be highly unlikely your PM could see if there was any vines there. Personally I am just under 155cm tall and at some of my properties can't see the TV aerial depending on where it's positioned, let alone part of a vine cut close to the roof line.

When I see vines near any properties I recommend they be removed completely, as many will cause substantial damage to eaves/guttering.
 
Looking at it from a different direction. How much vine are we talking about. A few branches are not going to cause a ceiling to collapse by itself. Unless the plaster had already partially given way from the bearers and the vine has grown in between them.

More likely you have had a failure of the glue/fibreglass/horsehair to the bearers and the plaster has sagged over time to the point it has collapsed.
 
It is a rare PM to diligently even collect rent these days. I've just had huge problems with another tenancy due to PM negligence. As properties come up for renewal I'm taking on the management myself - simply can't do a worse job with the expensive run I've had.
 
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