why don't they just stop imagration for a yr or two ?

[bluestorm]

Id just be happy for punters who arrive to this country to make it their home to speak clear english....
I'm all for immigration if people choose to assimilate effectively...currently this is not the case for many people who continue to choose to live in little groups and overtime expand and take over suburbs....

One other thing csc2. I'm more happy seeing all the migrants come (even with little English), but who are hard working, start their own businesses, etc (Chinese, Italians, Indians,etc), than seeing the English speaking dole bludgers sponge off the hard workers of Australia.
I'd rather be in "Chinese" Hurstville, then dole bludger suburbs in some parts of Western Sydney.

 

[andrew_de_a]

One other thing csc2. I'm more happy seeing all the migrants come (even with little English), but who are hard working, start their own businesses, etc (Chinese, Italians, Indians,etc), than seeing the English speaking dole bludgers sponge off the hard workers of Australia.
I'd rather be in "Chinese" Hurstville, then dole bludger suburbs in some parts of Western Sydney.

I endorse bluestorms post

 

[meconium]

I think the OP expects factory fodder "imigrants" who come here to be grateful. He forgets that gratitude goes both ways - Australia has a huge debt to "imigrants"

Take a look at the HSC results each year and go figure about the clever country.....its the "imigrants" kids who so often do better than our own. These new Aussies have done us proud.

 

[BayView]

Irony is a wonderful thing, no? Based on the absolutely horrid spelling of an alarmingly large number of posters on this forum, I think we should focus on Australians' battle with even the most basic english before we tackle the issues in relation to migrants.

Anyway, I found your post to be most amusing. Mostly because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and seem to get your opinions from John Laws during the day and A Current Affair in the evenings.

My grandparents came out here after the war. They are honest, hard working people who just wanted a chance at a new life. They were taken from their homes by the Germans and sent to a strange country on the other side of the world by the Allies. Not that they complained - they love it here and Australia has been very good to them.

Their experiences with Australians left much to be desired, however and frankly makes me a little ashamed to call myself Australian when I think about it. When I would go out in public with them when I was young, they would talk quietly or whisper in my ear. I used to wonder why they would do that, because I had absolutely no problem whatsoever speaking to them in Ukrainian in a normal manner. It wasn't until I was older that I realised it was a throwback to their experiences when they first came here. The term 'Wog' was not used as a friendly nickname back then.

They were shunned and treated very poorly by Australians (not all Australians, of course) - and they're white! Maybe it's because they're Slavic, I dunno... But it doesn't matter who you speak to, from any time, it's the same story. Italians, Greeks, Vietnamese, Chinese, Cambodian, Iranian, Sudanese, etc etc - it's the same story over and over. How about you ask yourself why culture after culture that comes here to Australia seems to stay mostly insulated, instead of pointing fingers at them?

Australians in general have a lot to answer for in the way we treat immigrants in this country.

Mark,

from my experience - and I am one of these people - most Aussies will happily accept anyone who is willing to come to Aus, have a go, learn the language, assimilate, become part of the fabric and adopt what we enjoy here.

I have many acquaintances and friends who are not from Aus who fit the above criteria. I do not see their colour or race; I see their attitude and willingness to embrace everything here. I like them as humans and as Australians. My parents-in-law are from Croatia and Holland respectively; met on the boat on their way here.

What almost all Aussies I know really hate are migrants who come here who do not make an attempt to assimilate, or learn the language. These are the ones who hide away in their race's enclaves, speak their own tongue, bring their own Country's prejudices with them and so on. I know some migrants who have been here for over 40 years and cannot string a sentence together containing English words. That is a disgrace.

They don't want to live in their own Country for god knows what reasons, but won't become part of ours.

This is an insult to our Country in my opinion and these are the types of immigrants that spoil it for the rest.

I have been quite vocal on this site about my dislike for immigration, but not because I am a racist - it's because I have seen how a very large population does not mean an improvement in lifestyle - quite the reverse in actual fact unless you are one of the very few upper levels of income/wealth - at least upper-middle class or higher.

 

[meconium]

What almost all Aussies I know really hate are migrants who come here who do not make an attempt to assimilate, or learn the language. .

So how many "imigrant" friends do you invite to your home on a regular or ongoing basis?

Your answer may explain a great deal about the person that you are.

 

[Luv2Travel]

I am one of these people - most Aussies will happily accept anyone who is willing to come to Aus, have a go, assimilate, become part of the fabric and adopt what we enjoy here.

Good post BayView!
Agree 100%

 

[BayView]

So how many "imigrant" friends do you invite to your home on a regular or ongoing basis?

Your answer may explain a great deal about the person that you are.

Weird question. What's your point?

As I said; I have a good number of friends who are immigrants, and by the very description of friends, they come to our place for barbies and get-togethers, and vice-versa.

Problem?

 

[jaycee]

Mark,

from my experience - and I am one of these people - most Aussies will happily accept anyone who is willing to come to Aus, have a go, learn the language, assimilate, become part of the fabric and adopt what we enjoy here.

I have many acquaintances and friends who are not from Aus who fit the above criteria. I do not see their colour or race; I see their attitude and willingness to embrace everything here. I like them as humans and as Australians. My parents-in-law are from Croatia and Holland respectively; met on the boat on their way here.

What almost all Aussies I know really hate are migrants who come here who do not make an attempt to assimilate, or learn the language. These are the ones who hide away in their race's enclaves, speak their own tongue, bring their own Country's prejudices with them and so on. I know some migrants who have been here for over 40 years and cannot string a sentence together containing English words. That is a disgrace.

They don't want to live in their own Country for god knows what reasons, but won't become part of ours.

This is an insult to our Country in my opinion and these are the types of immigrants that spoil it for the rest.

Life isn't that simple and black and white unfortunately.

It is to fundamentalists.

But that's why we call them fundamentalists.

It almost sounds like you wnat to ask questions, but no, you seem to think you know and present the answers. Some suggest there's alwyasmore you can learn, but you appeaar to know it all.

When I feel I've behaved similarly I've been told "ignorance is bliss", but surely that can't apply here to you

 

[Graemsay]

As a would be imagrant, I'm qualified to speak on this.

The Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC) has been tightening the rules up over the past few years. The changes that I'm aware of are:

• September 2007 - Minimal English standards introduced.
• September 2009 - Priority processing put in place. Before this applicants were processed on a first-come first-served basis. After this, anyone who wasn't on the Critical Skills List (medical occupations, IT, engineering, accountants) would be looking at a prolonged wait for a visa grant.
• February 2010 - Removal of the 15 extra points for an occupation in demand. This has made independent visas far more difficult to obtain, forcing migrants into a state or employer sponsored visa.
• July 2010 - State Migration Programmes to match skills in demand at a state level to incoming migrants. Applicants on these will have a processing priority.
• Late 2010 - A new points test for migrants will be introduced that pays attention to factors such as degrees.

With the exception of the priority scheme, none of the changes are retrospective.

DIAC are looking to terminate remaining applications made before September 2007, as many of these have poor English language skills or are considered suspicious. There is an attempt to introduce legislation in parliament to allow this to happen, and it's rather controversial amongst would be migrants.

I don't know how much has changed since the ascension of Gillard, but she's talking of two speed migration. Parts of the country, such as Sydney, where there aren't desperate skills shortages are likely to see fewer arrivals, whereas those like Western Australia that need workers are likely to see more.

Given the detail in her initial policy statements, my suspicion is that it's either a rebranding of what DIAC were working towards in the past, or they needed Rudd (and the idea of a Big Australia) out of the way before it could be implemented.

As far as I can tell, the Liberals favour lower net rates of immigration, and I suspect that they'd probably end up with something approaching the new regime's approach. There has been talk of balancing numbers against infrastructure improvements.

The Greens want to scrap the English language requirements (because it's discriminatory, and doesn't support a multicultural society), and rebalance migration towards family reunion and humanitarian goals.

The new Labor policy sounds sensible, and I don't know enough about what the Liberals are proposing to comment. The Greens strike me as living in a bit of a dream world, and their plans would be economically damaging.

 

[devo76]

Now about the housing shortage.

I believe we are building less than we need. I base this on all the evils people state on here. That is the media and all there graphs/charts and research. Now i could understand the armchair experts arguing this fact if these reports where limited but many many authorities agree. To what extent we have a shortage varies greatly but the vast majority agree their is one.

So why do so many here believe so passionately that it is ficticious.
I know similar situations played out in other countries but we have been underbuilding for some time while other countries had rampant building right up to the bust.
I am not pushing one side or the other i just want to know why something so widely exepted is so quickly dismissed by many on this forum.

Cheers

 

[hobo-jo]

Now about the housing shortage.
I believe we are building less than we need. I base this on all the evils people state on here. That is the media and all there graphs/charts and research. Now i could understand the armchair experts arguing this fact if these reports where limited but many many authorities agree. To what extent we have a shortage varies greatly but the vast majority agree their is one.
So why do so many here believe so passionately that it is ficticious.
I know similar situations played out in other countries but we have been underbuilding for some time while other countries had rampant building right up to the bust.
I am not pushing one side or the other i just want to know why something so widely exepted is so quickly dismissed by many on this forum.

We have only been building less than we need for only the last 3 years, prior to that it is arguable we have been overbuilding for 20+ years. There are some flaws to the table (e.g. doesn't take into account falling people per household, doesn't take into account housing accommodated by those not in the population stats like international students, etc), but it can perhaps provide an idea as to why some don't agree there is an overall shortage of housing:

Discussion on the statistics here:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=655032#post655032

 

[.toe]

What about demolitions?

 

[hobo-jo]

What about demolitions?

They are taken into account (at least those that are replaced), see the bottom notes.

 

[random]

Mark,

from my experience - and I am one of these people - most Aussies will happily accept anyone who is willing to come to Aus, have a go, learn the language, assimilate, become part of the fabric and adopt what we enjoy here.

I have many acquaintances and friends who are not from Aus who fit the above criteria. I do not see their colour or race; I see their attitude and willingness to embrace everything here. I like them as humans and as Australians. My parents-in-law are from Croatia and Holland respectively; met on the boat on their way here.

What almost all Aussies I know really hate are migrants who come here who do not make an attempt to assimilate, or learn the language. These are the ones who hide away in their race's enclaves, speak their own tongue, bring their own Country's prejudices with them and so on. I know some migrants who have been here for over 40 years and cannot string a sentence together containing English words. That is a disgrace.

They don't want to live in their own Country for god knows what reasons, but won't become part of ours.

This is an insult to our Country in my opinion and these are the types of immigrants that spoil it for the rest.

I have been quite vocal on this site about my dislike for immigration, but not because I am a racist - it's because I have seen how a very large population does not mean an improvement in lifestyle - quite the reverse in actual fact unless you are one of the very few upper levels of income/wealth - at least upper-middle class or higher.

I know it's all been covered before but I couldn't have put it better myself Bayview . Some of my best friends growing up in Melbourne's West were migrants. With their parents slogging their guts out 7 days a week in our factories , fantastic people .
But there was also the other side of the coin with whole suburbs taken over and many of those you'd see pulling up to what was the CES back then, in their brand new sports cars , handing in dole forms, all common knowledge.
Or whole streets where they all had bad backs, could I tell some stories !

Mean while we were all going to UNI, my dad owned three businesses .
Aussies have the right to be selective , it's often with good reason and although we do have our rednecks , on the majority it's our country , our taxes and we mostly all grew up 'also' seeing the other side of the coin .

Cheers

 

[WinstonWolfe]

The Greens strike me as living in a bit of a dream world, and their plans would be economically damaging.

I agree. The data I've seen show humanitarian and family migrants are a net fiscal drain on Australia, for up to 20 years. And probably more if Labor keep housing them in motels at $80 per night, and giving them a personal trainer.

So why do so many here believe so passionately that it is ficticious.

The chart below is cumulative population growth divided by cumulative new dwelling commencements. This shows roughly one new dwelling has been built for every 1.6 new Australians in the last 15 years.

Considering the average household size is 2.6 people, it indicates new supply adequately caters for population growth. However, broadbrush averaging does not elaborate the effect of an ageing population, partnering later in life, divorce and separation rates, higher tertiary education attendance, 500,000 foreign students, etc. Which is why there's so much controversy re over/undersupply.

During GFC, rental vacancies rose significantly. You would not expect this if undersupply was so critical, keeping in mind unemployment did not rise dramatically.

Many question demolitions. Authorities estimate 25,000 pa.
Total stock is currently almost 9 million.
New dwellings are around 150,000pa.

 

[csc2]

Irony is a wonderful thing, no? Based on the absolutely horrid spelling of an alarmingly large number of posters on this forum, I think we should focus on Australians' battle with even the most basic english before we tackle the issues in relation to migrants.



My grandparents came out here after the war. They are honest, hard working people who just wanted a chance at a new life. They were taken from their homes by the Germans and sent to a strange country on the other side of the world by the Allies. Not that they complained - they love it here and Australia has been very good to them.

Their experiences with Australians left much to be desired, however and frankly makes me a little ashamed to call myself Australian when I think about it. When I would go out in public with them when I was young, they would talk quietly or whisper in my ear. I used to wonder why they would do that, because I had absolutely no problem whatsoever speaking to them in Ukrainian in a normal manner. It wasn't until I was older that I realised it was a throwback to their experiences when they first came here. The term 'Wog' was not used as a friendly nickname back then.

They were shunned and treated very poorly by Australians (not all Australians, of course) - and they're white! Maybe it's because they're Slavic, I dunno... But it doesn't matter who you speak to, from any time, it's the same story. Italians, Greeks, Vietnamese, Chinese, Cambodian, Iranian, Sudanese, etc etc - it's the same story over and over. How about you ask yourself why culture after culture that comes here to Australia seems to stay mostly insulated, instead of pointing fingers at them?

Australians in general have a lot to answer for in the way we treat immigrants in this country.

If you were born here and are ashamed to be a so called Australian buddy then perhaps your not a true Australian...

Leave your heritage behind champ and become a real Aussie....

I find your post typical of immigrant background who still even having been born here have not properly assimilated and still have that chip on their shoulder...

have a nice day now..

 

[meconium]

A hundred years ago, it was the "dirty" Irish that were taking our jobs and not fitting in. The animosity Irish immigrants faced was horrendous and led to one brilliant Irish Aussie, CY O'Connor taking his own life. Never heard of him, go google it.

And then it was the Italians. They lost the war and flooded our shores. We called them dings and didn't think they'd amount to much. They too were accused of taking our jobs and committing crimes.

And then the Vietnamese boat people, our allies in a terrible war, who arrived from 1975 onwards......again they were demonized as being drug selling criminals etc. Today, like Italian immigrants, they are major property owners.

When the HSC results are published take a look at the names of the major prizewinners.....quite a few immigrants there. It will be these people who will be the future of Australia.

I can't help but wonder who we will be hating and demonizing in a generation from now. Yes we are a great country. Pity how the howling masses despise anyone who is a bit different.

 

[meconium]

I find your post typical of immigrant background who still even having been born here have not properly assimilated and still have that chip on their shoulder...have a nice day now..

And thanks to welcoming attitudes like yours, "foreigners" find it all the harder to assimilate. How many of YOUR mates that you share a beer with are non WASP immigrants? Probably none. That should speak volumes about you and how welcoming YOU are. The theme you perpetuate is that if anyone is a bit different, then they don't qualify as being Australian. Even the slightest hint of criticism is unacceptable in your 'Straya. Perhaps its your sort of bitter, venomous exclucivinism that leads to some of our more recent arrivals becoming terrorists?

Leave your heritage behind champ and become a real Aussie.... .

Real Aussies are welcoming and believe in the concept of a fair go.

Have a nice day mate (paraphrasing you pal)

 

[random]

I think the OP expects factory fodder "imigrants" who come here to be grateful. He forgets that gratitude goes both ways - Australia has a huge debt to "imigrants"

Take a look at the HSC results each year and go figure about the clever country.....its the "imigrants" kids who so often do better than our own. These new Aussies have done us proud.

I take it by OP your referring to me and have taken it upon yourself to interpret what I do or don't mean & forget. Very kind of you but once again your a mile of track so if you don't mind .

There was no mention of harboring anything against migrants what so ever in the origional post. Where the hell did you get that from , more assumptions, surreal !

Things along those lines have come up since I see but !
What I originally suggested was intended as total indifference as to who they let in. But the intakes been doubled so why not just cut that for a yr or two while housing catches up.

Very simple stuff my friend but as usual there are the people that come along with nothing better to do and seem to thoroughly enjoy twisting the simplest of things around just to get some mileage out of it !

Cheers

 

[Aaron Sice]

why don't you ask all those folk in Southern Cross why they can't get a doctor and have to drive 100km to Merredin to see one, and if they're full (which they always are), have to turn around and drive 320km to Kalgoorlie. that's a full day driving.

i'll tell you why.

because the govt further narrowed the skills base allowable for immigrant doctors .... considering 99.8% of regional doctors are immigrants in regional placements then you've just dealt a huge blow to wheatbelt towns everywhere, not just WA.

so next time you decide to jump on your "f__k off we're full" high horse about immigration, take an hour's drive out to your nearest regioanl town and ask why they have no doctors, then tell them you support the fact they don't have a doctor because your house price is too high.

get some perspective and call back later.