why don't they just stop imagration for a yr or two ?

[WinstonWolfe]

because the govt further narrowed the skills base allowable for immigrant doctors .... considering 99.8% of regional doctors are immigrants in regional placements then you've just dealt a huge blow to wheatbelt towns everywhere, not just WA.

Raise the standard Aaron. I usually agree with most of what you say, but not on this.

Why does Australia insist on depriving the third world of their health carers in the first place. How selfish, how inhumane of us to do so.

Start looking at why Australia has a problem with Australian doctors working in regional towns. I'll give you some leads.

- Over 50% of med graduates are metro raised females who value a more intellectually stimulating lifestyle than the utes, red meat and booze centric culture of most regional towns.

- Why do most offspring from rural Australia have to leave?

I am sick of farmers who will not change to a healthier diet and lifestyle, nor take a broader interest in the world, who spend more on booze, gambling, and equine recreation, than they are prepared to pay a health care provider - and then bltch that doctors won't come and look after their sorry ar$es.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Leave your heritage behind champ and become a real Aussie....

I find your post typical of immigrant background who still even having been born here have not properly assimilated and still have that chip on their shoulder...

Thanks for proving my point.

Edit: I love Australia, it's an awesome and beautiful place. I'm about as assimilated as it gets. When people ask me where I come from, I tell them I'm Australian, with Ukrainian heritage. I'm equally proud to be both. I'm also the only Mark Laszczuk in the whole country (yes, my handle is my real name). My Ukrainian these days is pretty poor (which bums me out, but since I rarely speak it anymore, it kinda gets lost), but my English is excellent. What makes me ashamed is the attitude of a (perhaps not) surprisingly large number of (mostly) Anglo people who seem to think, like it seems that you do, that people should forget where they come from and become an 'Aussie' (whatever that means).

To me, being Australian is about celebrating the many diverse cultures our beautiful home has to offer. I suggest that you learn first hand what it means to be discriminated against for being different before you judge others. Is that what being 'Aussie' means to you? Being a white bread crackah that drinks beer, eats meat pies, watches the footy and has a Southern Cross tattoo? I also like beer, meat pies and footy, but the tattoos look cliche and ridiculous. My grandparents are mad keen Geelong supporters (well my dido is, my baba passed away a while back), drank beer, loved the cricket and all that good stuff. But I also like the wide range of options that being open to other cultures allows.

You might like to try being open to them, too. You never know, you just might like it.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

I'm amazed that in this day and age we still hear about how immigrants are causing our problems. I know quite a few people who were born overseas, and they seem united in an effort to take advantage of the huge possibilities our country offers.

They also have really interesting and tasty foods.

I also remember growing up that the people who complained the loudest about immigrants were the working class Aussies who were happy to get by in basic jobs, protected by unions, with no thought for improving their situation. And this includes people in my own family.

My wife's parents were immigrants who went from zero to very prosperous in about a generation. While the people whinging went nowhere.

Our country is great not just because of our freedom and possibilities, but because people actually take these opportunities and run with them. And lots of those people are immigrants.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Raise the standard Aaron. I usually agree with most of what you say, but not on this.

raising the standard does wonders for the overall lovey-dovey-ness of it all, but in reality, there is now no doctor where there was one previously. how is "no doctor" a measure of "progress"....?

Why does Australia insist on depriving the third world of their health carers in the first place. How selfish, how inhumane of us to do so.

i thought they came here seeking a better education? it's called EMIGRATION - since when were we "stealing" doctors....?

Start looking at why Australia has a problem with Australian doctors working in regional towns. I'll give you some leads.

- Over 50% of med graduates are metro raised females who value a more intellectually stimulating lifestyle than the utes, red meat and booze centric culture of most regional towns.

actually, i think you'll find you'll be chewing on your words there. why do public servants become public servants? for the crap pay? for the 12% (woohoo....) super? for the 1 month RDO? no. nearly every qualified publis servant is a public servant because they believe in public service. the farmers on this forum are probably the most well rounded and educated people on here and can hold an intellectual conversation better than the latte crowd, that's for sure.

- Why do most offspring from rural Australia have to leave?

i dunno, maybe because every time a pollie has an axe to grind, regional areas lose out...? like doctors? mental health? facilities?

I am sick of farmers who will not change to a healthier diet and lifestyle, nor take a broader interest in the world, who spend more on booze, gambling, and equine recreation, than they are prepared to pay a health care provider - and then bltch that doctors won't come and look after their sorry ar$es.

uh huh. so i suppose that kid with the snake/spider bite who needs antivenom should pay some pocket money as well? or the jackaroo who came off his bike during a roundup should just "suck it up" and fix that punctured lung himself? oh i know, the ovarian cyst that mum developed is probably due to her diet and booze (ovarian cysts are as dangerous as a swollen appendix). and the barmaid who got glassed for calling "last drinks" was probably asking for it anyway.

there's more out there than just fat white male farmers aged 35-50 with high blood pressure and gout.

see blue - cause i'm seeing red.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Aaron, you were talking about "skills base for immigrant doctors", not migrant children smart enough to get into the limited number of med student placements.

I agree TC and Thorpey are very well informed, infinitely moreso than the many farmers and miners I've actually provided health care for. As for their diet and lifestyle, I am unsure.

Why do I hammer diet and lifestyle? Because the majority of GP consults are a direct result of these. If a population took a more enlightened interest in diet, they'd drop their GP consults dramatically, and leave more time for doctors to treat trauma and disease without an obvious lifestyle related cause, like your Mum's.

Why do I hammer lifestyle? because country boys like to toy with risk taking behavior a bit more than the average, probably out of boredom and poorly developed interest in other stuff. Would you like some insight into the hundreds of clinical hours I've spent looking after risk taking country boys involved in car and motorbike accidents.....Then I'll tell you about the rodeos. Without exception, every time I've worked in a country hospital where a rodeo took part, there'd be at least 5 serious injuries that would seriously incapacitate the guys from doing manual labor ever again.

These guys usually occupied hospital beds that some poor guy who injured his back at work couldn't get into.

The people I am angry at most Aaron, is the medical profession itself. It artificially keeps doctors numbers down to protect income, just as the specialist colleges make the exams for foreign specialists ridiculously difficult.

 

[Ausprop]

The people I am angry at most Aaron, is the medical profession itself. It artificially keeps doctors numbers down to protect income, just as the specialist colleges make the exams for foreign specialists ridiculously difficult.

nicely put. medicine is a huge money printing press. Sadly when you are part of the fodder you realise that it's bucks first, then patient care

 

[BayView]

nicely put. medicine is a huge money printing press. Sadly when you are part of the fodder you realise that it's bucks first, then patient care

This is fairly true.

Mind you; the average nurse is all about the care first, the money second from my experience.

Which brings me to the crux of the probelm with empty beds; the corp that owns the hospital (if it is private) want to lower overhead, so will use a shoe-string staff. So don't go to a private hossy expecting to get blue ribbon care folks.

The reality is that many nurses simply leave the industry due to stress and not enough pay. Add to this the private hossies cutting staff to minimise costs and you have a bed shortage.

What peeves me is you never hear a single dumb pollie actually admit to this on the teev. There is always some other reason why there are bed shortages - namely something that the opposition did/didn't do.

And finally, in an industry which is mostly women staff, they are very inflexible when it comes to catering for mothers who need odd hours - unless they go casual or on "bank".

 

[jaycee]

Perhaps I was lucky they were short stays / my type of illness at the time, cuae I got great care at both Bethesda hopital and St John of God in Perth,

 

[urbanprospector]

Yep; you have to be a young professional couple D.I.N.K's in a 4 x 3 house.

35 squares at least.

and pay $250 a week in rent in a million + suburb lol
but what do i know .




as i said housing investments dead .is no shortage .. thats the propery lobbyists and interest groups talking ..


yes be prepared for the 3rd great depression.

no skilled labour shortage either .. that is the minig lobby groups at work .

commercial real estate is becomming a big prob in oz also

 

[urbanprospector]

Perhaps I was lucky they were short stays / my type of illness at the time, cuae I got great care at both Bethesda hopital and St John of God in Perth,

was born in st johns .. but so was most of perth or eddies.


dont get me started on health or .. monsanto lol thats asking for a rant

 

[urbanprospector]

Aaron, you were talking about "skills base for immigrant doctors", not migrant children smart enough to get into the limited number of med student placements.

I agree TC and Thorpey are very well informed, infinitely moreso than the many farmers and miners I've actually provided health care for. As for their diet and lifestyle, I am unsure.

Why do I hammer diet and lifestyle? Because the majority of GP consults are a direct result of these. If a population took a more enlightened interest in diet, they'd drop their GP consults dramatically, and leave more time for doctors to treat trauma and disease without an obvious lifestyle related cause, like your Mum's.

Why do I hammer lifestyle? because country boys like to toy with risk taking behavior a bit more than the average, probably out of boredom and poorly developed interest in other stuff. Would you like some insight into the hundreds of clinical hours I've spent looking after risk taking country boys involved in car and motorbike accidents.....Then I'll tell you about the rodeos. Without exception, every time I've worked in a country hospital where a rodeo took part, there'd be at least 5 serious injuries that would seriously incapacitate the guys from doing manual labor ever again.

These guys usually occupied hospital beds that some poor guy who injured his back at work couldn't get into.

The people I am angry at most Aaron, is the medical profession itself. It artificially keeps doctors numbers down to protect income, just as the specialist colleges make the exams for foreign specialists ridiculously difficult.

well made points but i will ad .

i smoke drink and smoke that evil weed also .. i grow my own veg and eat sorta well .

not seen a dr in 11 years .

i like toys too and know all about back injuries .. more chance of some moron on the rd in the city trying to do ya in than playing on toys .. i can give 7 personal examples ..

know a few dr's the wages are crap till ya specialize .

food for thought .. dr.'s practice medicine .lawyers practice law ..
when i do my trade i am glazing not practicing ..

glad i not had to do my trade in a lot of years or ya have to deal with the two mentioned above ..and thats just scary as they still practicing

 

[Token Funder]

I have a handy rule that I find saves a lot of time. When I encounter someone making liberal use of the phrases "true Aussie","real Australian " and the like in the context of talking about "them", it's best to assume they are either poorly educated and insular knuckle-draggers or someone who finds poorly educated/informed knuckle-draggers useful for political or related purposes.

There are genuine reasons to weigh the implications of those desirous of coming to this country or who have been here for generations not subscribing to our secular, liberal democratic foundations, but any discussion coloured by flag wrapped, Ozzy-Ozzy-Ozzy faux patriotism is to social discourse what Today Tonight is to journalism.

 

[Token Funder]

The people I am angry at most Aaron, is the medical profession itself. It artificially keeps doctors numbers down to protect income, just as the specialist colleges make the exams for foreign specialists ridiculously difficult.

Agree.

The CFMEU blokes must sit awake at night dreaming about having the power of the doctor's unions.

I should add that in the last 25 years, I have had only 2 GPs that weren't foreign trained and both of them were of Chinese parents. All professional competent individuals.

 

[imonmyway]

Someone in an earlier post demanded that immigrants be able to speak clear english, just because you can speak english doesnt mean you are better educated more honest harder working etc etc. It just means you feel less threatened by people who seem different. I grew up in an area with high levels of non english speaking parents, the kids all speak english and there kids also speak english it doesnt need to be a pre-requisite that every new person to Australia must fit the social norm immediatly immigration is about generational inclusion into the wider population. You need to look at the long term and bigger picture.

 

[csc2]

Someone in an earlier post demanded that immigrants be able to speak clear english, just because you can speak english doesnt mean you are better educated more honest harder working etc etc. It just means you feel less threatened by people who seem different. I grew up in an area with high levels of non english speaking parents, the kids all speak english and there kids also speak english it doesnt need to be a pre-requisite that every new person to Australia must fit the social norm immediatly immigration is about generational inclusion into the wider population. You need to look at the long term and bigger picture.

What a lot of grabage.............Speaking clear english means you can communicate and assimilate properly and contribute effectively in the general community..unlike now where basically ghettos are springing up all with some nationalities that are intent on pretending they are still living overseas.......

What gets my back up is how many from certain nationalities treat women and the law here, especially younger people.......utter contempt!

If you think otherwise ill happily post a long list of stuff that has occurred over the past few years directly relating to lebanese for example..........

Stop being so politically correct and face facts on the issues that sooner or later will come back and haunt this country....you only have to look at france and the uk to see where we are headed.............

i have no issue with anyone coming here to live but make the bloody effort to assimilate and value our living standards and communication.............

its a simple fact of reality, not anti immigration.

Some of these posts sounds more like Anti Australian to me...If you are unhappy with the country then leave! no one is keeping anyone here............

 

[Aaron Sice]

i have no issue with anyone coming here to live but make the bloody effort to assimilate and value our living standards and communication.............

clearly they do or they wouldn't be emigrating here.


what about aussies being more tolerant?

not everyone in the world speaks english, and it's not like a saudi death squad are going to give you a few year's notice of arrest so you can get your english on tongue before an option of leaving, or the taliban are going accept you even learning english before you attempt to leave.

no, most of the time, whether by plane, boat or foot, a refugee or immigrant had to leave yesterday. it takes YEARS to learn english, not days.

i think the viewpoint of "assimilate or f__k off" is terribly shortsighted and does nothing to make life easier for those suffering hardship. if anything it does more damage because YOU are segregating THEM because they don't speak english. that just drives people further away from mainstream society and does nothing to help them fit in.

if you were a little more patient and actually LISTENED to what they were trying to gesture and communicate, you might actually understand and be able to help them.

maybe it's YOU who should f__k off - and take a trip to afghanistan and stay in a HOUSE (not hotel ordering room service) in kabul for a few nights, then try and get out of the country and travel (hah!) to khartoum and stay a few nights there.

how does it feels to not speak the language in an intolerant society? do you like the treatment?

how would you do things differently now?

or is that just too hard? would you like a cup of concrete with your plate of apathy? because these people have made the trip with nothing for a permanent change with their entire family.

i think they deserve a little more respect.

these people have to have a lot of money or be locked up for a few years to make the change. those who come here legally still have had no time to learn english, so they have to start a business and employ their family, because they're the only ones they can effectively communicate with.

that's taking on financial risk for personal safety. what do they care? they're alive and under no threat, they can make it work.

i think it's time for every aussie to be labelled like the jews were duing the holocaust. wear a red star if you're a redneck, then any other likeminded rednecks can all bandy around the campfire singing koombayah, then you're all grouped together nice and tight so i'd only need a few bullets or pipe bombs......

 

[Aaron Sice]

its a simple fact of reality, not anti immigration.

how dare you compare your simple opinion of reality with facts.

 

[truong]

What a lot of grabage.............Speaking clear english means you can communicate and assimilate properly and contribute effectively in the general community..unlike now where basically ghettos are springing up all with some nationalities that are intent on pretending they are still living overseas.....

Speaking of ghettos, there are ghettos of Australians living overseas, I mean, gated communities of wealthy expatriates in the middle of the poorer local populace.

It amazes me to see Australians living for long periods of time in foreign countries and not being able to speak and write the local language even at a basic level. How many of them can speak and write fluent Chinese, Japanese, Arab, etc...? Their "society" consists mainly of other expatriates with its own set of values very remote from the local culture.

I know an Australian guy living in France and married for 20 years to a French woman. He's still not able to line up a correct sentence in French. When his wife and daughters talk to him in French he would reply to them in English!

Maybe it's a case of English language superiority complex. These people only get by because the locals are extremely kind in talking to them in English.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Speaking of ghettos, there are ghettos of Australians living overseas, I mean, gated communities of wealthy expatriates in the middle of the poorer local populace.

It amazes me to see Australians living for long periods of time in foreign countries and not being able to speak and write the local language even at a basic level. How many of them can speak and write fluent Chinese, Japanese, Arab, etc...? Their "society" consists mainly of other expatriates with its own set of values very remote from the local culture.

I know an Australian guy living in France and married for 20 years to a French woman. He's still not able to line up a correct sentence in French. When his wife and daughters talk to him in French he would reply to them in English!

Maybe it's a case of English language superiority complex. These people only get by because the locals are extremely kind in talking to them in English.

so true. kudos.

i think aussies just have a superiority complex, period. we just think we're better than everyone else.

but our international sports are pretty average now, our international rep has dwindled and overseas aussies continue to be more obnoxious than an american in paris. we're just riding the back of our dwindling delusion of granduer.

australians are, by default, rednecks. i think we all are. you can tell yourself you're not, but we ALL judge someone first and then correct ourselves immediately or later. the social stigma of PC tell us we have to.

drop the PC and the refugees cease to be people - they become dings, wogs, chinks, choges, ragheads, boongs and lamingtons.

oh gosh, did i just confront you with the terms your parents used? sorry gub. i should avoid continuing those teachings, shouldn't i?

 

[Aaron Sice]

Maybe it's a case of English language superiority complex. These people only get by because the locals are extremely kind in talking to them in English.

would be nice for english speakers to return the favour.