Word of caution for the newbies.

Rastus maybe write a book called :The Great Real Estate Swindle of 2003 :now that you have made a killing on property-equities what do you INVEST in now I hope it's not fixed term in a Bank that's just about to go belly-up
willair..

Thanks but my strength is away from the novel production arena.

I strongly feel that we have moved from a capital appreciation phase into a capital preservation phase. There is discussion going on at GHPC about where to invest money in a downturn.... there are options, but they all carry some risk I guess.
Most of my profits are in my PPoR (which I expect to suffer in the downturn, but it is a home for my young family, not an investment).

Anyway, there will be ample time to buy into R/E... but having bought well before this last boom taught me that there is no rush... when no-one wants to touch R/E... I'll buy again. In the mean time.. I'll keep saving with an eye on inflation and hedging against it as required.

IMHO, This is a time to consolidate and plan.
 
Guys, I don't know if I'm comfortable with the direction this thread is heading. Keep it on topic please or it will be shut down.
 
Do you have any examples? I haven't seen them, but somehow now I'm accused of this.....

I was not accusing any one individual. Not sure how you inferred that I was singling you out.

But please, FHB, there are many examples here and on the other the side of this behaviour. Let's not play innocent. People have come here, behaved unacceptably and been banned and some have re-birthed in other forms.

No I don't keep a laundry list of these "comments". I must admit, I find that my time is better spent on other activities. The difference with this site, is that all threads which deteriorate into slanging matches and name calling, are locked and deleted.
 
No, you didn't, LA Aussie did. I was just wondering if my posts were close to this behavior or not?

IMO, not at all.

Its good to hear an exchange of different views, but I think we have gotten to a point where everyone is oversensitive to these comments because the crapola that is sometimes vented along with them (admittedly on both sides of the arguments) and is a real turn-off. Well for me at least.

When this happens, it takes away from the enjoyment of what is generally a great forum.
 
IMO, not at all.

Its good to hear an exchange of different views, but I think we have gotten to a point where everyone is oversensitive to these comments because the crapola that is sometimes vented along with them (admittedly on both sides of the arguments) and is a real turn-off. Well for me at least.

When this happens, it takes away from the enjoyment of what is generally a great forum.

No probs, I do enjoy some of the discussions here. I've really enjoyed the interviews and details of others who succeeded through the good parts of the cycle. Keithj's interview flicked a switch for me.

The trolling doesn't help, I'm not a fan of that kind of thing, but I ignore it easily enough, just as the rose colored glass view is a bit of a turn off too.

Edit: I'll point out that not all GHPC members are trolls, Rumpled Elf has taken information from both sides to set up her future.
 
I'm a newbie and thanks Devo for the black and white warning that there are negative posters out there. As Muzzamo calls it, I am a mug who has happily jumped in, in the last 12 months. I welcome different points of view, different methods and ideas: if anyone chooses to wait or thinks I'm a mug: that's fine, I'll hear them out and see if I can take something constructive from it. But I am in it for the long haul and whatever D&G may or may not happen in the next few years I consider irrelevant. I've been loving the positive support on this site, for the most part it's full of great information and glass half full stuff which I love. If anyone brings derogatory slander into play (especially a personal attack), I just skip over it. It's not necessary. Thanks for the warning Devo, but most of us newbies on SS have already decided to use property as a vehicle and know what information to take on board and what to ignore.
 
I'm a newbie and thanks Devo for the black and white warning that there are negative posters out there. As Muzzamo calls it, I am a mug who has happily jumped in, in the last 12 months. I welcome different points of view, different methods and ideas: if anyone chooses to wait or thinks I'm a mug: that's fine, I'll hear them out and see if I can take something constructive from it. But I am in it for the long haul and whatever D&G may or may not happen in the next few years I consider irrelevant. I've been loving the positive support on this site, for the most part it's full of great information and glass half full stuff which I love. If anyone brings derogatory slander into play (especially a personal attack), I just skip over it. It's not necessary. Thanks for the warning Devo, but most of us newbies on SS have already decided to use property as a vehicle and know what information to take on board and what to ignore.
Love your work mate!

Kudos

Cheers,
Michael
 
No probs, I do enjoy some of the discussions here. I've really enjoyed the interviews and details of others who succeeded through the good parts of the cycle. Keithj's interview flicked a switch for me.
Good on ya mate! Really glad to hear it and I genuinely hope you successfully enter the market through the ensuing slowdown. Its shaping up to be good buying for FHBs. I'm not an exclusionary elitist who wants to keep all the wealth to himself. I have a lot of GenY friends that I'm trying to coach into the market at the appropriate time. That time isn't too far away now if it isn't here already. A couple of my GenY friends have bought recently, Yay for them!! But, for whatever reason, I've been ridiculed at length and had ill outcomes wished upon me at GHPC so I avoid that site and have never posted there.

You, YieldMatters, Elf and a few other GHPC folk are more than welcome over here as you really add value to this site. Some of the stuff you have posted has thrown a switch for me too. I've actually held off developing my Mona Vale site and locked down my cash flows as a result. I'm still bullish, but have tempered my strategy with a twist of caution in these volatile times. It will come good in due course but there's no rush.

But I agree that on both sites there are an unruly few who enjoy the disruption more than the dialogue, which by my definition is Trolling. Those members should justifiably be unwelcome in both forums. If you come to share and learn then welcome, if you come to flame then goodbye.

But I'm a simple man... :)

Cheers,
Michael
 
I am a newbie and am not a deep thinker, so I don't really get what all these arguments are about...:eek:

To me, the situation is simple, GHPC members wait for the property price to come down and buy, this is their goal, that is good. And SS members wait no time and buy whenever that suit them, this is their goal, that is good too.

Besides that, I can't see there is any problem with the comments that were made by both parties in the posts.

I believe if you have a strong mindset, concrete strategy and a solid goal, no matter what other people saying, you should still stick with your own unique one, if any of those three things can easily affect by others, then I definately think it is worth a review.

For a newbie (like myself) who is in the process of building this mindset, concrete strategy and solid goal, this is one of the hurdles that need to overcome. The same scenario still apply, if your mindset, strategy, or goal still can affect by others, then they are not solid, more researches and fine tunes are still required.


Super.
 
Not to mention that there are a few posters who THINK they have it right because they have purchased one or 2 properties!

Anyone with less than 30 to 40 property transactions is NOT a seasoned investor!

There is alot of the blind leading the blind on this forum and many who are very "reactive" instead of "proactive" especially to issues of time management and legislation.

Eg someone will post a problem they want direction with
10 people will "react" and get emotional over the problem and not offer a solution.
another 10 will get emotional over the first 10 and by the end of the post no one would have taken the initiative to proactively solve a problem.

These are not the actions of "seasoned investors"

By the way, I have done over 30 to 40 property transactions!!!!
 
See that is what's called a healthy, balanced and accomplished mind... I am one of the great believers in attitude and mindset and firmly believe that skill, tact and form are secondary to attitude in pursuit of happiness and wealth.

You've got a great head on David. A great post.

Cheers
Harris



Hi Shadow.

Just wanted to say I read plenty of your posts on GHPC and I thought you did a great job of arguing your point in a civilized manner. You did get a little cheeky in return however was never proved to have instigated an attack and anything you did say was much more watered down than anything that was thrown at you. Several of your opponents could give but couldn't take. The common pattern I saw was arguing then resorting to name calling once they ran out of ammo.

Kudos to you!



Sounds to me like a lot of people wishing the world was different. The world is perfect how it is, flow with it. What's your plan if Shadow is right, hypothetically? I hope you have one because the property market rarely makes sense.

If what you say is all true, and we are all headed for a spectacular crash, won't that be better for you anyway? Don't give me all that crap about 'caring for society' either. You can't really beat that drum after the way you've been posting on here.



I can understand this. The thing is, investors are not deliberately trying to make anybodies life hard. They are just playing by the rules to make their lives better. Under a scarcity mindset it's easy to believe that this disadvantages others. Does it really overall? I think this competition/capitalist market has an overwhelming net effect of advancing us all. You do realise that even by desiring a home just for yourself (or even eating meat) you're also making life hard for others in 3rd world countries? Where does it stop? Even the fact we are alive and breathing makes life hard for the planet and others living on it.

You know, we've got it pretty damn good here. The Chinese and Indians want a piece of this 'easy life' we all enjoy here and they're starting to stand up and make it happen. Of course our quality of life is going to go down as a consequence, globalisation was always going to do this. I think it's our responsibility to make the most of what we've got. It's an insult to others who do not have the opportunity to do so. You think life's hard because you can't afford a great place in a great location? How about getting trapped and killed in a dodgy mine shaft working your backside off for $100 per month.

If the energy some of you guys exerted into what could be interpreted as online sooking was channeled into making your own life better I think you would be blown away at what you can achieve. Some of you guys do seem really smart, just bitter and smart. It's clouding your minds and getting in the way of what you want.

If there is a big crash coming, just keep renting and save like crazy and grab yourself a great place at 2003 prices or whatever. Prepare for the worst (which in your case would be there is no big crash, perhaps even more growth and hope for the best).

No need to harp on and on and on about it online. I can't imagine it achieving anything apart from annoying people and wasting time. Out of the super small % of property investors that buy more than 1 IP only a small % of those are actually on here. Even if you could 'turn this forum around' (which you can't) it's still a drop in the ocean IMO. The lamestream media are doing a better job of what your trying to achieve anyway for free.

After you get a place of your own (which I hope everybody does) and if you decide you're ready to accept the rules of the game and want to play to win this place is a great resource.



From what I saw the personal attacks and general juvenile behaviour existed long before the banner.

Muzz, it's good to see you posting more constructively, welcome to the forum and I hope you do hang around and make things 'interesting' for us all (in a respectful way).
 
Anyone with less than 30 to 40 property transactions is NOT a seasoned investor!


By the way, I have done over 30 to 40 property transactions!!!!

I disagree, not because I have done any less transactions but because I think that it is more important to see the "results" from those transactions and if they were made over a couple of property cycles or in one go at buying 20 prop in a small town.

I know a lot of what i would call seasoned and successful property investors who have done far less transactions but know the game extremely well.

For someone who only buys within a 5 kms radius (ave $1mn +/ transaction) of a major city, it might take a few generations for him to qualify for 40 property transactions..? It does not make that person any less experienced..and vice versa.

Transactions would be one of the minor criteria I find when judging someone's seasonality in investing.

Its akin to saying that a person who has more posts say in our forum is more knowledgeable than one who has only a few but reads the forum well and has a wide range of information that he can retrieve to make informed and better decisions than a dribble poster.

Harris
 
Anyone with less than 30 to 40 property transactions is NOT a seasoned investor!

Not paying much attention to this thread, but on this point above...

You can't be serious?

I think that's nonsense, the notion that an increased number of property transactions somehow equates to being a ''seasoned investor''...?!
 
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Hi Shadow.

Just wanted to say I read plenty of your posts on GHPC and I thought you did a great job of arguing your point in a civilized manner. You did get a little cheeky in return however was never proved to have instigated an attack and anything you did say was much more watered down than anything that was thrown at you. Several of your opponents could give but couldn't take. The common pattern I saw was arguing then resorting to name calling once they ran out of ammo.

Kudos to you!

Thanks David. :)

Yes, I always did try to keep my posts constructive and on-topic, but generally what happened was as soon as I posted anything I was attacked and abused from all angles, and when they ran out of ammo as you say they just resorted to name calling, reporting my posts, and calling for me to be banned. I guess they got their wish in the end.

(Note that this was only a minority of hardcore GHPC gloomers that behaved in this way, but unfortunately that minority are given free reign to lead the direction of the forum. The majority of GHPC members were quite happy for me to post there).

As I mentioned in my first post, I am quite happy to see YM, HG, FHB etc post here on Somersoft. It is good to see both sides of the argument. If only GHPC was as progressive...

Since I (and the other regular 'bulls') have all been banned from GHPC, I note there is very little real debate there any more. Gloomy threads are posted, everybody agrees with the viewpoint, and the thread dies. There is no real discussion of the issues any more, because everybody has the same point of view.

There is also an increasing number of 'apocalyptic' style posters calling for specufestors to be burned, destroyed, terminated etc. And without any bulls left on the forum, these comments go completely unchallenged now. They remind me of a coven of witches cackling with delight at the perceived forthcoming downfall of investors, bankers, RE agents, property analysts etc. Quite sad really...

Cheers,

Shadow.
 
I think for the most part this thread has been very constructive. Its skated close to the edge a few times but its normally followed by a better post that makes up for it. People seem to be listening to both sides and newbies are getting something out of it too. This is what i wanted so please keep it traveling along as is. We all have different opinions its just how you choose to voice them that makes the difference.Good stuff everyone.:)
 
Not paying much attention to this thread, but on this point above...

You can't be serious?

I think that's nonsense, the notion that an increased number of property transactions somehow equates to being a ''seasoned investor''...?!

Perhaps Xenia means that a person who has this many properties (30-40)would have been through a number of economic cycles and is, on this basis a 'seasoned' investor?

Regards Jason.
 
Anyone with less than 30 to 40 property transactions is NOT a seasoned investor!

That sounds like an invitation to just churn the portfolio. Pay a heap of stamp duty and agents fees and get nowhere. Personally, if someone has 5 "transactions" behind them and a $25m portfolio, they would qualify as seasoned to me!
 
That sounds like an invitation to just churn the portfolio. Pay a heap of stamp duty and agents fees and get nowhere. Personally, if someone has 5 "transactions" behind them and a $25m portfolio, they would qualify as seasoned to me!

Agree with everyone here. It's "equity" not "quantity" that counts. Experience in several cycles is a different matter altogether. It has been proven that the most successful sharemarket traders tend to be the ones that buy and sell less (as low as 1-2 trades per year), as they are able to differentiate winners and losers better, able to cut off the losers faster and latch onto the winner for longer, thereby improving win:loss ratio and the overall profitability. This is virtually identical to basic property investment principle.
 
Agree with everyone here. It's "equity" not "quantity" that counts. Experience in several cycles is a different matter altogether. It has been proven that the most successful sharemarket traders tend to be the ones that buy and sell less (as low as 1-2 trades per year), as they are able to differentiate winners and losers better, able to cut off the losers faster and latch onto the winner for longer, thereby improving win:loss ratio and the overall profitability. This is virtually identical to basic property investment principle.

I don't know if it is equity that counts, those who've lost it all may have some good pointers for beginners?
 
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