Worst Prime Minister in last 40 years?

Worst Prime Minister in Last 40 years ?

  • William McMahon

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • Gough Whitlam

    Votes: 10 9.2%
  • Malcolm Fraser

    Votes: 7 6.4%
  • Bob Hawke

    Votes: 5 4.6%
  • Paul Keating

    Votes: 5 4.6%
  • John Howard

    Votes: 17 15.6%
  • Kevin Rudd

    Votes: 63 57.8%

  • Total voters
    109
  • Poll closed .
I'm not keen on saying who was worst, but although Whitlam was only in for 3 years there is still a lot that we got from that era:
Trade Practices Act, Family Law Act, Medibank now Medicare to name a few. As GeoffW mentioned free university was another major structural change in our society.
 
HAWKE The movie, a snippet from You Tube

A sneak peek at the Channel 10 telemovie Hawke reveals Roxburgh charting Hawke's rise from trade union heavyweight to prime minister.

But while the movie presents Hawke's role as a polished world leader and his many political accomplishments, it does not shirk from the dark side of his life.

Early scenes in the telemovie show Hawke in explicit bedroom scenes with the woman who would become his wife, Blanche d'Alpuget (Asher Keddie).

There are also scenes of Hawke being drunk and abusive, and breaking down in tears over his failures as a father.

The former prime minister was involved as a consultant on the telemovie and gave his blessing for a truthful portrayal of the successes and failures of his political and private lives.
 
Nah

Gough had many redeeming qualities.

Hey, where is Ms Gillard in ur poll ? :)

PS, I cant vote on this one, I reckon they all have made good contributions at various levels.............the opposite poll I can have a go at though

ta
rolf

Would you vote for Ms Gillard, Rolf?

What scares me is the swing to The Greens and the nations continuing stupidy in not clearly understanding that this will still vote the present Government back in.:mad:

Regards JO
 
Hi Josko

I suppose my point about JG is that Kev might not survive a leadership spill should there be one............

For me the, the concerning bit is that we are now in a place where the "public interest" is being pushed waaay ahead of the basic principles of free enterprise.

Never mind the Greens..........many would argue they are already seeing red

ta
rolf
 
Being in my early forties, I have memories of Gough Whitlam being sent packing by the Governor General.

Sent packing? Just a bit of innocent fun that the liberals conspired with the governor general to sack the elected government of Australia .

With the current inept government in place , it got me wondering - what are peoples thoughts on the worst prime Minister / Government since 1970?
My tip is Kevin Rudd by a whisker over Gough Whitlam.

Maybe you forgot the GFC? Krudds action kept australia out of recession and added 250000 jobs
Follow the libs plan . No stimulus,No bank guarantee,flight of billions out of Australia and most of the shops boarded up

Not many pensioners here hey? Given their $35 pay rise recently you can credit 1 million votes for Howard and Fraser worst pm
 
Poor KR is in his current dilemma not without the help of many inept ministers, including the Greens.

Policies that come to mind are the insulation, Green loans, asylum seekers, school infrastructure. The resources tax and the NBN have the potential to come out badly for the govt.
 
The most interesting thing about this poll is it demonstrates a cognitive bias.

Look at the poll results starting at the top, and running down to the bottom. Its ordered by time, starting with the earliest then running down to the most recent. It shows an exponential curve starting low, and ending high.

Rather than providing any comment on the relative merits of those PM's its more of a confirmation of what is called the 'Recency Effect' and also the Availability Heuristic. These biases mean that we have more associations with things that have happened recently. Given that we the question was 'Who was worst', we can immediately think of bad things done by the current PM, less bad things done by the previous and so on.

By the time you get to McMahon (before many here were born, or at least old enough to remember politics), the rating is very low. I would guess that part of our makeup means that we are reluctant to condem a person as 'worst' when we don't know much about him, but because we know a lot abour Rudd and Howard, we are more comfortable condeming them.

The slight spike for Whitlam is interesting, (although if I crunch the numbers, I'm guessing it wouldn't be statistically significant) I suspect there is are a couple of elements at play. Firstly his coming to power and loosing power were events that are watermarks in Australian history, and are known by most informed people. He also introduced some of the widest social change in our political memory.

This leads to the question: What makes the 'worst' prime minister...if you came from a very poor family and then went to University in the Whitlam era, you might recall him as being very good. (paid for your uni and might have stopped you going to Vietnam) Even though his Government ultimately failed.

What weighting do you as an individual place on economics, social justice, transperency, honesty? Changing that weighting can fundamentally change our perceptions of what is 'best'...just like every investor here could look at the same property and see a totally different investment opportunity.

Ok...too much analysis for a Sunday morning!

Murphy
 
The most interesting thing about this poll is it demonstrates a cognitive bias.

Look at the poll results starting at the top, and running down to the bottom. Its ordered by time, starting with the earliest then running down to the most recent. It shows an exponential curve starting low, and ending high.


Rather than providing any comment on the relative merits of those PM's its more of a confirmation of what is called the 'Recency Effect' and also the Availability Heuristic. These biases mean that we have more associations with things that have happened recently. Given that we the question was 'Who was worst', we can immediately think of bad things done by the current PM, less bad things done by the previous and so on.

Pretty much my point in Post #9 but expressed better above.

By the time you get to McMahon (before many here were born, or at least old enough to remember politics), the rating is very low. I would guess that part of our makeup means that we are reluctant to condem a person as 'worst' when we don't know much about him, but because we know a lot abour Rudd and Howard, we are more comfortable condeming them.

The slight spike for Whitlam is interesting and I suspect there is are a couple of elements at play. Firstly his coming to power and losing power were events that are watermarks in Australian history, and are known by most informed people. He also introduced some of the widest social change in our political memory.

To test this more fully, I'd have included Curtin, Chifley, Menzies and Gorton (and if you insist, McEwan) in the list. And the same for the 'best PM' poll.

As personal memory fades or is confined to older people only, history tends to telescope the past. And memory becomes legend or one-line associations.

Eg Curtin = competent war time leader, Menzies = post war prosperity, Whitlam = social change but start of mass unemployment, etc. In this potted history some PMs are left out entirely, or the effects of significant ministers are forgotten (eg 'Blackjack' McEwan).

Certain PMs leave stronger impressions than others. In some cases this is due to longevity of office (Menzies), but in others it's due to percieved radicalness of policies, method of losing office (Whitlam) or that it broke a long period of rule by his opponents.

Whitlam accelerated rather than changed the country's social direction - the direction of change was set over 10 years previously (eg Menzies = abolish dictation test and Colombo Plan, Holt = Aboriginal referendum, Asian relations and abolish White Australia policy, Gorton = relax censorship and fund arts, etc). And similar changes ocurred in many other western countries at similar times to us.

Nevertheless, possibly due to his government's style (eg his relationship with the public service & self-indulgence of some ministers and the leader himself) and the unorthodox manner of its ejection, Whitlam polarised the public memory (both for and against) more than (say) the less significant Gorton and McMahon governments.

The difficulty is that the popular memory may not necessarily be correct or is an over-simplification. Eg multiculturalism and immigration are intertwined, but generally speaking governments that have promoted multiculturalism (Whitlam, Fraser, Keating) have presided over low or reduced immigration, while those who didn't care for it presided over high immigration (Menzies, Gorton, Howard).

Hawke is a partial exception, since he increased immigration in the 1980s. His multiculturalism was a balancing act between his own party (which includes ethnic branches, academics and radical sociologists) and the broader popular community opinion (which was nearer to Blainey, Howard and Ruxton).

This leads to the question: What makes the 'worst' prime minister...if you came from a very poor family and then went to University in the Whitlam era, you might recall him as being very good. (paid for your uni and might have stopped you going to Vietnam) Even though his Government ultimately failed.

Yep. Especially if you were a Canberra public servant who got a divorce and then went on to get an arts grant! But the farmer who lost their subsidies or the manufacturer who had their tariffs reduced and had to pay for the wages break-out wouldn't have been impressed though.

The high approval of Howard in the other poll might well have been because many following a modest investment program would have had their wealth increase maybe 10 fold since 1996 (for OOs with no IPs it might have been only 3 fold), and you'd have to go back to the Menzies period to find a similar time of strong growth and mild slow downs in between (though 1961 was a short, sharp shock).
 
I don't know...KRudd has done OK, Howard did well, even Paul Keating had great moments. What did Hawke do? Apart from being around when we won the America's Cup, I haven't heard of anything SIGNIFICANT that he did...before my time though...

Just for the record:

KRudd:

Signed/rectified Kyoto
First female deputy PM?
FHOG boost
GFC buffering
TRYed (although failed miserably) at introducing a common sense environmental program with roof batts (although a bit more research would have been handy).
Is TRYING (although will probably also fail) at centralising health funding
First REAL steps at revolutionising education (although Julie could have gone about it slightly differently).

He is trying....
 
Interestingly if you go to the 'best' PM thread you will find almost exactly the same distribution, including the 'Whitlam' anomaly.

The distinction is with the sudden drop off for Rudd. I don't read too much into that, I really think its difficult to comparatively evaluate a PM during office.

Murphy
 
problem is that not many people can predict what the implications of Rudd's actions are for the long term future, so they tend to fall for media brainwash when evaluating his actions.

with the other ones, people see what was the result of their actions, so the judgment seems to be more objective.

would be interesting to see results of the same poll(s) without Rudd in it.
 
......did bring about medibank and a culture of change though and subsequent floating of the dollar, deregulation of banking, dismantling of trade barriers and many things we take for granted today would never have happened under the Lib's paternalism and protectionism that prevailed before.............

On the issue of deregulation of the AUD and banking industry, the Campbell report was commissioned and supported by the then Treasurer (Howard) but Fraser was not supportive of and backed of following through on those recommendations.

It was only after the Martin Review (under the Hawke Government) in 1983 which confirmed and supported the recommendations, when they decided to accept and implement those. They were supported by the Lib/Nat opposition.

So, yes ultimately this happened under the watch of the ALP government, but it was a concept that had a broad acceptance before hand.

Like any fundamental change, it takes time to bring the community on board and have the confidence that the government is not only making the right decision, but why it is important in doing so and has the ability to implement.

Its a skill and concept that is not embraced or well understood by the current
government
 
Didnt some major tax review back in the late 70s highlight the need for a consumption based tax such as a GST to be implemented??

Perhaps that goes to show that in reality, no one political leader/government has ever really spawned major social/economic change completely on their own....

... but i dont really know. I was 2 when Hawke came to power.
 
Didnt some major tax review back in the late 70s highlight the need for a consumption based tax such as a GST to be implemented??

Option C at the 1985 Tax Summit. Keating's preferred option funnily enough which he then ran the mother of all scare campaigns in 1993 election to win for all the 'true believers'.

See, even the left can run scare campaigns.
 
kruddd is particularly bad tho. he gave so much to the banks, blew the kittty, stuffed up on th eenvironmental front from all perspectives, the RESPECT disaster. his cabinet is full of communists and unionist stand over men - a shambles
 
Didnt some major tax review back in the late 70s highlight the need for a consumption based tax such as a GST to be implemented??

Option C arose as part of the 1985 Tax Summit. Keating was allowed to run on this for a while but Hawke and the ACTU reined him in.

You might have been thinking of the Asprey tax review of 1975, which as Ross Gittens pointed out, eventually got implemented though it took time http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/in-time-we-will-get-the-nasties--but-not-just-yet-20100503-u1wo.html

Howard in 1979 and 1981 (as Fraser government treasurer) wanted to introduce a VAT but couldn't win cabinet's support http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/chron/1998-99/99chr01.htm & http://www.theaustralian.com.au/third-time-lucky-with-a-taxing-problem/story-fn4p96e3-1225815095152
 
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Big problem!!! It doesn't include Menzies.
If you understood Menzies and the state he left the nation, Gough is easier to forgive.

I agree Menzies should have been included in the poll, but given that Menzies retired nearly 7 years before Whitlam was elected, I'm not sure that he can be blamed entirely for how Australia was in 1972. And with 2% unemployment some look on the Menzies era as a golden period of prosperity.

I thought "It's Time" and voted accordingly (my first ever vote I voted for Don "Queen Adelaide" Dunstan to topple Sir Thomas Playford) and Jim Cairns, Juni Marosi, Kemlani and Co left a bitter taste in my mouth. But these things were an embarrassment for the party and made us cringe but there was no legacy left enacted in law.

He did bring about medibank and a culture of change though and subsequent floating of the dollar, deregulation of banking, dismantling of trade barriers and many things we take for granted today would never have happened under the Lib's paternalism and protectionism that prevailed before.

I agree that the Whitlam government brought about a de-regulation in the bedroom, but it did not bring about similar changes to the economy (with two exceptions). For instance it brought in sex discrimination laws and the Trade Practices Act (which expanded consumer protection).

The two instances where Whitlam de-regulated the economy were in tariffs (25% tariff cut) and agriculture (reducing subsidies/bounties for farmers). The latter was politically easy to do as farmers tend not to vote Labor, so there were few votes to lose.

While Whitlam did not engage in any large-scale nationalisation it did seek to regulate, most notably with Rex Connor's crazy energy and mining schemes and dodgy Iraqi loans.

Economic deregulation was largely bred from the failure of the 1970s (high unemployment, low growth and high inflation) and restlessness from those in the productive sectors of the economy who saw themselves being over-taxed by a growing but increasinly ineffective government that was hostage to special interests and work-shy welfare recipients. Personal responsibility, reward for work and lower taxes were the watchwords.

It also marked a turn from the trend towards increasing government involvement in areas such as pensions, health and education (from Roosevelt to LBJ's 'Great Society' programs) and disillusionment with the results.

Most western countries had these trends (measured by the success of Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman & FA Hayek, and politically by Thatcher and Reagan). Fraser had much of this rhetoric and can claim to have limited growth in government up to 1981.

However his era marked a transition in the Liberal party from being dominated by economic wets (including protectionist manufacturers and the agrarian socialists in the Country Party) to one in which free marketeers (influenced by low protection industries eg mining's Hugh Morgan and the newly de-regulated banking) assumed the upper hand.

Fraser is accused of not doing very much de-regulating, but in his time most of his opposition was from the left. He was perceived as a right-wing monster, and his ability to implement tough policies may have been inhibited by the unusual way that he came to office.

Hawke did not have these shackles (though it did have the ACTU which shaped its approach to industrial relations) and with the changed climate of opinion was able to de-regulate the currency and banking relatively painlessly (although the latter may have contributed to dodgy lending practices eg the foreign currency loans offered to farmers and corporate crashes around 1990).

Policies of western countries are suprisingly similar, and there seem to be broad intellectual currents that shaped policies. Hence I don't agree that Whitlam's culture of change flowed through to the culture of economic de-regulation that became so powerful a decade later. Free-market ideas became influential in both conservative and labour circles in the 1980s, just as socially liberal ideas influenced both sides in the 1970s.
 
Originally Posted by Sunfish
Big problem!!! It doesn't include Menzies.
If you understood Menzies and the state he left the nation, Gough is easier to forgive.
I agree Menzies should have been included in the poll, but given that Menzies retired nearly 7 years before Whitlam was elected, I'm not sure that he can be blamed entirely for how Australia was in 1972. And with 2% unemployment some look on the Menzies era as a golden period of prosperity.
OK. The memory dims. But "full employment" then, didn't mean what it does now. VERY few married women were in the workforce and ALL women got abt 60% of male wages. Even the guys were not well paid and education was elitist. Much of what we bought was inflated by up to 40% import tariffs (I think that's what we paid on cars). It was a lazy, corpulent economy.

Remember Menzies was British to the boot-heels and, while addressing ERII said I did but see her walking by, and yet I love her till I die. He only ever saw Australia as an outpost of the UK and was happy to allow it to Ride on the sheep's back.

These are the things which the Lib PMs which followed had little vision to change. It seems they considered it disloyal to change his ways.
 
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