would you change PMs with these mistakes made ?

We have 3 IP's, all with the same PM. Two are identical townhouses in the same complex, 3rd is a house. We are soon renovating an existing granny flat at the rear of the house.

We have had a few problems with the PMs and hubbie now wants to change PM's.

IP #1 (town house) had existing dream tenants. Always pay on time, never whinge, place is ALWAYS imaculent.

IP #2 (town house) exactly the same as #1 but in original (tidy and functional) condition. First tenant stayed 1 year, was good for 6 months but then got 6 weeks behind in rent. She had an emo son who smoked dope in his room all day and the house stank of it after she left. After the first non paying episode, after she had finally caught up, 2 weeks later she started getting behind again so we decided to get new tenants. To be fair to the agent, she did chase up the tenant every day for arrears, at least I think she did.

Second tenant had good references (apparently), always paid on time. Unfortunately they are serial whingers. Some of their requests have been waranted (although I wonder if their actions have caused some of the problems). One problem in the first week of the tenancy was a leaking sink which was ok with me to get a plumber and I told the agent that while the plumber was there to get him to look at the laundry taps as the hot water tap didnt work and I was about to organise a plumber anyway, this didnt get done and 2 weeks later we had to pay for another "emergency" call out from the plumber. These tenants go to the fair trading people if you dont do what they want and apparently are well known there for their whinging. The first tenant never had any problems with the house and did keep it tidy, except for the emo sons room. Hubbie wants the tenants in this IP out as soon as their 6 months is up (end of March) and the agent put a note on our file to issue a notice to them at the soonest legal time. Well the notice has not been sent which means that the soonest we can get them out is another 2 months.

IP #3 was renoed and put up for rent at mid Feb. An open day was held and the agent was supposed to be there (4.30 was the advertised time for inspection by potential tenants). People started rocking up at 4pm and we were going to leave but decided to stay until the agent arrived. By 4.30 we had about 15 couples/groups there to inspect. At 4.40 hubbie decided to start showing people around as agent hadn't yet showed. About 5 interested parties had already got the S#@#$TS and left. At 4.45 I rang the agency who said someone was on their way and he arrived at 4.55. He told us that he was in sales not rentals and had got back to the office as I had rung and was thrown keys and told to hot foot it over. He didnt have any rental apps with him and didnt know anything about our IP, not even the rent amount. When I rang the agency the next day to complain about this, I was given some bull s###t story that didnt match up to the one given the day before.

Well the tenants are now in place at this IP and last Friday we were having a look at the granny flat with the builder and asked tenants if we could come in the yard to get the builder to look at a minor drainage problem we have to get fixed. The tenant told us it took the agents 2 weeks and many phone calls to get the condition report to the tenants and even then only by e-mail.

Tenants in IP #2 now have another 2 demands and hubbie now thinks we cant issue a termination notice because it will look like we are kicking them out for asking for things.

Sooooooo hubbie really has his back up about the agents and wants to change agencies. Are we being a bit harsh about the agent- would you flick them?

Also do we have to wait for the leases to be up before we change PMs?
Switch IP3 to a new PM. When they ask why say you're not happy with the way things were handled and if they don't sort out IP2 asap they'll lose that along with IP1.

That will give you some time to trial an new PM with IP3.
Geez a bit of a bad run there i would be flicking them for sure plenty of good agents out there.

As for waiting for the lease's no.You would have signed a management agreement form at the start.On that form there should be something along the lines of

"This agreement shall commence on X date & may be terminated by either party giving not less than X days(standard is 90days i think) written notice of termination."

A new Agent will prob write the letter anyways for you.I always stipulate that i want a maximum of 30days written notice before i sign anything and 99% of the time they agree to it in my experience.I even have had a Agent change it 10days written notice they were that confident in themselves.
IP1 - Sounds good
Ip2 - Sounds like the one you are most concerned with, if you move this to another agency do you think the problem with the existing tenants will go away. Why don't you just wait out your 6 months and have a little bit more involvement when it comes to choosing the new tenents, although it does not sound like the current PM rang there previous PM or alternativley were lied to about how fantastic/pethetic they are
IP 3 - Of all the things that jack me off these days its people who can't attend a meeting/appointment on time. Then to get half baked stories why is my 2nd biggest problem.
You could go with Twobob's solution and move one to another PM company or put a rocket up the current ones as by the sounds of it you have met the current tenants in IP3 and say you will monitor there performance over the next 3 months if it does meet your expectations you will cease all 3 with them.
Interview your PM before hireing them!

You have to be more strict with PMs. You pay them for their services, so you have absolutely every riht to expect the best possible service. RE Agencies would be nowhere if it's not for the rent listed properties and vendors, and it's time to make them understand it. :mad:

You - as the owner of the rent property - employ the PM, so you should ALWAYS start with a job interview.
Including: references (and contact some other vendors to check on the Pms reputation); ask them for a detailed description of their services in writing (and follow up that it's always done that way); let them know about your expectations and make sure that they understand it, that you pay them, so you set the rules.

When you made your decision about the right PM, give them a 6 months probationary period for managing your property, then sit down with him/her and talk it over how it is going so far and decide for the long term. Keep records of all discussions and actions between the 2 of you.

Their job effects the "welbeing" of our livelihood, we have to be strict about who we let to handle this responsibility.

It's almost as important than who is looking after our kids, or whether we start our partner or not.

No kidding! Take it seriously!

OOOOOOps, sorry if I got a bit overheated!! :)
PM got lucky with IP1.
IP2 is a demonstration of what they are like
IP3 - being late is another demonstration of their attitude.

I felt some loyalty towards my initial PM, big mistake. BS after BS, i kept using them because they did find me some decent tenants. Im starting to think it was just luck. A good PM will find a good tenant regardless of the market. Crap ones can only find tenants in good markets and make excuses of the market being poor when they cant.

I finally got the poos with the PM because they repeatedly ran late for the open house - and they decided to put me last on their open house list because my place was the furthest away (im talking about 20mins as opposed to 5-10 mins away when compared to their other properties). That exercise cost me about $3k in lost rent.

Finally changed agents, and im glad i did. The new agent actually talks to me and doesnt BS me around like the previous one did.
I was leaning towards no, until I read IP3. Not turning up, or turning up late really gets on my nerves. I'd flick them just for that, unless it can be determined that there was a genuine mix-up.

IP2 isn't really their fault, as it's a bit hard to determine if someone is going to be a serial whinger from their application.

But I would be leaning towards giving them the flick, ot at least having a serious discussion with them.
Sounds to me like they are not communicating with a number of nails in their coffin so move all the properties on.

Please remember that any PM agreement is an agreement that you as the customer can change and the prospective agent can either accept the changes you make or you simply move on. We change the 'notice' period to say 'the end of accounting period' as we have always coincided a move with the end of the month. If its 2 days or 4 weeks is irrelevant. We do actually give as much time a possible not because of the PM but more so that the new agent can contact the tenants.

IP2 isn't really their fault, as it's a bit hard to determine if someone is going to be a serial whinger from their application.

Which is why the RE needs to take the time to talk to the applicant. Its really no different to a job interview.

If its a popular property, you narrow it down to short list based on criteria, a quick 5-10 min phone call will reveal what the person is like.

If its a crappy property and there arent many applicants, the RE should really point out to the owner of the property what their view of the applicant is. If their judgement is a negative one, they should recommend the owner against taking up the tenant, however if the does approve the application based on desperation, the owner themselves are already prepared for it.
Tanks for all the replies.

When we bought the first 2 (at the same time), we interviewed 2 PMs. One was a Agency that only does rentals and the other (this one) was the selling agent on IP#1. (IP #2 was bought from a relative). At the time the agency we are with had only been going about 18 months and they were trying to build up their rent roll. The head PM came to see us and we were impressed and decided to go with them. She apparently had been head hunted from another REA. At first we only dealt with her, but as they have grown, they have added to their staff and we usually have great trouble contacting her now, only can get the staff. I asked when we went with them how many properties they managed (as I had been told that PMs with more than X amount of properties cant peoperly manage them all), and at the time they had a reasonable amount but not excessive. Certainly well under the amount, which I now cant remember.

Another reason we went with them was out of a sort of sense of loyalty as the principle had helped us to get a viewing on IP#3 which at the time had been temporarily taken off the market and helped us with some advice.

We didnt go with the other PM as they seemed to be quoting well above what we thought were the asking rents, and have since been confirmed as being excessive.

I am a bit more forgiving than Hubbie and he wanted to flick them after the IP #3 open day incident but I wanted to let it go, but I have to admit that I think it may be time to move on.
We hung on far longer with one PM than we should have, so my first thought was to go elsewhere.

At the very least, contact the owner of the PM business and state frankly that you are not happy and why. Ask what they intend to do to improve the management you are receiving. The "no show" at a scheduled open for inspection is unacceptable.

After that, if you don't see an improvement then move.
I reckon you should give them the flick, however you really need to read your management agreement as some agents (some LJ Hookers amongt others) lock you in for the length of the tenancy and then charge you a fee to get out.

As far as the other agent you interviewed quoting above market rental - some do that because they think it will gain your business and then have to drop the rent later, but by that time they have you. My PM in Canberra does written appraisals and provides comparitive properties to prove where they got that figure.