Would you riot if your country was up the *****?

Okay - with the news out today regarding Greece and it's 5th bailout, I'm still confused as to why - when you country is going to pot and boarding on bankruptcy - are the people violently rioting in the street and demanding the government doesn't cut back it's expenditure?

It's not like they have a choice.
 
Okay - with the news out today regarding Greece and it's 5th bailout, I'm still confused as to why - when you country is going to pot and boarding on bankruptcy - are the people violently rioting in the street and demanding the government doesn't cut back it's expenditure?

It's not like they have a choice.

They do have another option.

They are upset because they are going into austerity mode to pay back debt racked up over the last couple of decades.

They could alternately default on their debt. They would then have no access to credit but they would not have the massive interest burden which will be with them for decades.

This is not a good option for banks and nor for the EU but your average person in Greece would probably be better off. It is for this reason the people in Ireland were pissed off when Ireland took the loan from the UK. The thing was the UK is only trying to chase the massive debt owed to them by Ireland.

It would be like me lending you $1,000,000.00 and then saying when you get in trouble, right I will give you another $100,000.00 but only if you never eat anything other than baked beans and pay me back over the next 20 years when it might be better for you if you declared bankruptcy as then you are back on track after only a few years.

For countries the time in the sin bin is really forever. Never again will they be able to source credit, well not for a long time at any rate, but at least they will not be lumbered with interest payments. They will no longer have the euro but some local currency and the greek government would again have control over monetary policy one of the issues with Euro zone countries.

If it was Aus or like in the USA then we could just start inflating the debt away.

So yes if my government borrowed billions more than we could afford off the banks of other countries and we were on Euros, then the government said to me you have to pay more tax to pay this back and the debt looked limitless and impossible to ever repay I would probable be on the side of saying, tell them to get stuffed, we are not paying any back you should not have leant me too much in the first place.
 
The Greek Government is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The people don’t want austerity measures and are rioting. The bankers/Government doesn’t want default or there is the potential for a domino effect to flow through the Euro zone (Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, multiple banks and sovereign bankruptcies would be the likely outcome).

It's a catch 22, the Greeks are FUBARed regardless of what happens (at least the way I see things playing out).

Interesting times ahead.

Keep some cash under your mattress (not a joke).
 
Ah - now I understand.

It would be like the federal government giving everyone on the sole parent pension another $900 per child, just for the heck of it - and then hitting me with a 1.5% levy to backhandedly pay for it ... oh ... hang on ... they did.
 
I wouldn't protest violently, that's for sure. Here in Spain we're having similar protests all around the country and it's a source of mystery to me. What exactly do they want? What are they asking for? The parliament here has said they are happy to sit down and talk to the leaders of the protest movement and try to find solutions, but the protestors don't have a leader. They haven't been able to find one, or two, or even 10 people that could go and represent them. They don't even have a clear idea what they are protesting against. Or for. There are many who hold up placards that read 'Real Democracy Now!' but last month encouraged youth and unemployed to boycott the municipal elections and now are camped outside the Catalan parliament, hurling paint, eggs and fists at politicians who try to enter or leave. Even at the greenies, socialists and Catalan independentitsts. They are against every one and everything. It's ridiculous. They don't want democracy, they want anarchy.

And when did it become OK to throw punches at pollies? Or fire-bombs, in the case of Greece? If you're super-angry, take it out on a public monument, or throw paint at a building or something, but don't get violent people who are just trying to do their jobs.

Seriously, every single day I'm newly confused and surprised by the pointlessness and lack of coordination of these protests. And I'm what most of you guys would call a tree-hugging, hippy leftie!
 
Actually, it would be more like your spouse borrowing loads of money, spending it, the bank coming after you for it, and saying 'we're not letting you declare bankruptcy, so we'll take a chunk of your wages instead.'
 
would i riot?

no.

i'm what you call a sleeper terrorist, apparently - someone defined as having the intelligence and the contacts to create effective terrorism, but lacking any motivation to do so.

this is what the US are worried about most and why they go above and beyond their "listening" mandate.

when cr@p like this provides motivation, suddenly you have a bucket load of home-grown militia making more trouble than the dept of homeland security would ever want to admit.

so the question again...would i riot?

no.
 
I wouldn't protest violently, that's for sure. Here in Spain we're having similar protests all around the country and it's a source of mystery to me. What exactly do they want? What are they asking for? The parliament here has said they are happy to sit down and talk to the leaders of the protest movement and try to find solutions, but the protestors don't have a leader. They haven't been able to find one, or two, or even 10 people that could go and represent them. They don't even have a clear idea what they are protesting against. Or for. There are many who hold up placards that read 'Real Democracy Now!' but last month encouraged youth and unemployed to boycott the municipal elections and now are camped outside the Catalan parliament, hurling paint, eggs and fists at politicians who try to enter or leave. Even at the greenies, socialists and Catalan independentitsts. They are against every one and everything. It's ridiculous. They don't want democracy, they want anarchy.

And when did it become OK to throw punches at pollies? Or fire-bombs, in the case of Greece? If you're super-angry, take it out on a public monument, or throw paint at a building or something, but don't get violent people who are just trying to do their jobs.

Seriously, every single day I'm newly confused and surprised by the pointlessness and lack of coordination of these protests. And I'm what most of you guys would call a tree-hugging, hippy leftie!

you're right - it's anarchy - not democracy - people power whereby the mob rules.
 
I think Lizzie also asked if we would actually riot.

I think it is safe to say Aussies wouldn't care enough although it must also be said we have been asking pollies "How are going to pay for that?" for a long time now. For this I believe we deserve kudos. We are pretty quick to put ourselves down but we aren't the silliest people on Earth.

The Americans (who STILL don't ask that question) probably will. People react badly when privileges (even those unearned) are withdrawn. The Yanks are about to have social security, which they HAVE paid into, severely curtailed. They have a history of riots.
 
I think Lizzie also asked if we would actually riot.

Good point, it was too.

It is hard to know for certain but possibly I would.

When you know your government is pandering to the powerful vested interests like banks and foreign powers rather than the majority of Greeks, sometimes people have to take things into their own hands and show them what numbers mean on the ground.

A silent majority becomes not so silent anymore if they are being mistreated. The middle classes of Germany were Hitlers initial power base, a usually quiet part of society and yet the 1930s depression and hyperinflation allowed a nutbag like him to rise to power through there support in an otherwise moderate society.

I have not read enough about modern Greek politics to understand why the government have not gone back to the ballot box. When you have protests like this it is the only rational thing to do? Let the people have there way or it turns very nasty very quickly. Look at Thailand, they do it ever 12 months or so!

Otherwise as a government you are no different to Gaddafi. Things change and sometimes people will not stand for a government mid term. Either they change the leader or if it is really perilous stand down and go to elections.

If not a single conventional party stands for defaulting than usually a party would set up to stand for this if necessary. With that level of public anger I would imagine a Greeks for defaulting party would win!

It is why I think it is only a matter of time before they do default and I suspect why Greek bonds on market are paying a 26% yield.

As an economy they can theoretically pay back the debt, but why bother when their is another option that is much easier on the man/woman on the street?
 
As Ocean Architect explained a little re the background of Greek political & economic history, it’s reasonably deep, different issues have existed for a long time and all sorts of other stuff.

I wouldn’t expect Aussies to riot like Greece. Nothing new is happening in Greece. People didn’t just change characteristic traits for example and start protesting / etc about this latest economic crisis….
 
Okay - with the news out today regarding Greece and it's 5th bailout, I'm still confused as to why - when you country is going to pot and boarding on bankruptcy - are the people violently rioting in the street and demanding the government doesn't cut back it's expenditure?

It's not like they have a choice.

No I will just leave ... if I was American/Irish/Greek/Portugese, I'd migrate so quickly you wouldn't believe it. Thx god I hold dual citizenship.
 
I wouldn't protest violently, that's for sure. Here in Spain we're having similar protests all around the country and it's a source of mystery to me. What exactly do they want? What are they asking for? The parliament here has said they are happy to sit down and talk to the leaders of the protest movement and try to find solutions, but the protestors don't have a leader. They haven't been able to find one, or two, or even 10 people that could go and represent them. They don't even have a clear idea what they are protesting against. Or for. There are many who hold up placards that read 'Real Democracy Now!' but last month encouraged youth and unemployed to boycott the municipal elections and now are camped outside the Catalan parliament, hurling paint, eggs and fists at politicians who try to enter or leave. Even at the greenies, socialists and Catalan independentitsts. They are against every one and everything. It's ridiculous. They don't want democracy, they want anarchy.

And when did it become OK to throw punches at pollies? Or fire-bombs, in the case of Greece? If you're super-angry, take it out on a public monument, or throw paint at a building or something, but don't get violent people who are just trying to do their jobs.

Seriously, every single day I'm newly confused and surprised by the pointlessness and lack of coordination of these protests. And I'm what most of you guys would call a tree-hugging, hippy leftie!

Real democracy? They must be talking about the NATO one that invades other countries. Lol

These people are so deluded. No wonder they've been stuck in the rat race and now live in a bankrupt country and can't get out... no mean feat
 
All of southern EU is bankrupt, France being an exception, has been for many years.
A huge % of the pop depend on govt handouts, thats why they riot.
It would happen here too if the govt halved all benefits dole and pensions.
 
would i riot?

no.

i'm what you call a sleeper terrorist, apparently - someone defined as having the intelligence and the contacts to create effective terrorism, but lacking any motivation to do so.

I think you might find that those with intelligence and motivation are quietly making moves in the background to secure their positions - rather than being out on the street being noisy.

Would I violently protest ... nope ... I'd be at home plotting away how to turn this to my advantage.
 
I think the Greek protesters have form. They have been living beyond their means for years with cushy pensions and bloated public services jobs (approx 30% of their workforce) unsustainable. If I am sounding harsh its probably because I am :p

Now if it was the German people protesting I would understand, after all why should they have to bail out other countries whose people get to retire years younger on pensions they can only dream about?

I noticed the other day NSW public servants were protesting about having pay rises fixed to 2.5% for the next few years. Well let me get out my violin because I havent had a pay rise since 2008.

Feelings of entitlements is a dangerous thing especially when reality gets ignored. It never ceases to amaze me how people cant look past their own self interest.
 
I think you might find that those with intelligence and motivation are quietly making moves in the background to secure their positions - rather than being out on the street being noisy.

Would I violently protest ... nope ... I'd be at home plotting away how to turn this to my advantage.

that's exactly my point.

one hand the educated and smart movers are seen as threats.

the other hand they are just aligning their financial outcomes to sit well in any environment.

in a revolution, the educated are always eliminated first. those with money can buy some time and those with influence leave and never come back.
 
I think the Greek protesters have form. They have been living beyond their means for years with cushy pensions and bloated public services jobs (approx 30% of their workforce) unsustainable. If I am sounding harsh its probably because I am :p

Now if it was the German people protesting I would understand, after all why should they have to bail out other countries whose people get to retire years younger on pensions they can only dream about?

I noticed the other day NSW public servants were protesting about having pay rises fixed to 2.5% for the next few years. Well let me get out my violin because I havent had a pay rise since 2008.

Feelings of entitlements is a dangerous thing especially when reality gets ignored. It never ceases to amaze me how people cant look past their own self interest.

And everyone else is completley innocent except the few selfish protestors who want more for nothing from everyone else you reckon ?

If only life was actually that simple.
 
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