Wraps /Flings and other missing details

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From: David Buch


HI all..

I am a newbie to property investing, but have been doing a fair bit of reading and research.
However, I am now looking for the nitty gritty and detailed information, especially on processes such as wraps and flings.

If anyone can help me get to grips with the exact processes one has to follow, (including legals, documentation, etc) I would be most appreciative.

I am also trying to find the best places to source properties from.
I have heard a lots about RPData? Any good anyone? Is it worth it?

Thanks

Cheers
David
 
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Reply: 1
From: GoAnna !


I am not sure that this is the appropriate forum for a "fling" : )

GoAnna !
Why not go out on a limb, that's where all the fruit is. (Mark Twain)
 
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Reply: 1.1
From: Paul Zagoridis


I dunno GoAnna ! maybe a fling is just what we need in this market.

David,

Buy John Burley's book it's written for Australia -- don't skip to the end bit on wraps or you'll lose your shirt.

Read the archive. Lot's of info on the nuts and bolts for wraps and flips.

I see wrapping as a business not an investment. you are into that property until the wrapee cashes you out. More detail depends on what state you're in.

Paul Zag
Dreamspinner
 
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Reply: 1.1.1
From: Rolf Latham


Hi Paul

Thank you for that distinction of investment vs business.

Little do most people realise that to be a succesful wrapper as a core income strategy you need to treat it like a business. How do I know ? - I have clients that have plain just lost the heart for going through with it. The result - 5 properties that give a few bob a week, but cripple the borrow cap for buying growth properties.

If wrapping is to be your core strategy then you had better be persistent and hard nosed - just like any other business, 97 % of them will not be actively trading in five years time.

ta

Rolf
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1
From: David Buch


Hi

Thanks for the info.

I have already bought John Burleys book, and read it from cover to cover. I did find it useful, however a lot of it I found "motivational" stuff. I don't need motivation! I am totally motivated and committed..

I think the info I am looking for is probably more specific , like what sort of contracts are required, what wording goes where etc.. i.e. really nitty gritty stuff. I am not sure how much a solicitor will do or how much I will have to do initially.

I am also looking for the best means to judge a property. At this stage I am still very green behind the ears..

I have seen RPData, but it is fairly expensive and I am eager to know if, firstly it is worth it and secondly is there a cheaper equivalent? Will it give me the research on an area which is needed?

As far as running it as a business, I most definitely DO intend to do just that. I currently have my own software business now, and it has been running successfully for the past 6 years. I am totally committed to making property my next business. I want to get out of the rat race ASAP.

Thanks

David
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1.1
From: The Wife




***David, wrap contracts in QLD, try Daryl Woods 07 55733481 , they will cost you about $330 ish and he used to provide phone support, so if you were doing a wrap, and had a problem, he would help you over the phone****


>I am also looking for the best
>means to judge a property. At
>this stage I am still very
>green behind the ears..

*** The way you judge, and I or anybody else judges, is VERY different, because we all have our own idea of what we think makes a good property, nobody can really teach you this, we can give you what we believe are our fundamentals, and you have to make up your own mind from there, it all depends on where your risk boundaries lie****


>
>I have seen RPData, but it is
>fairly expensive and I am
>eager to know if, firstly it
>is worth it and secondly is
>there a cheaper equivalent?
>Will it give me the research
>on an area which is needed?
>
*** I know some people use this, but personally I find it a waste of time, but again, thats my opinion, someone else may find it useful, for what?wouldnt have a clue****


>As far as running it as a
>business, I most definitely DO
>intend to do just that. I
>currently have my own software
>business now, and it has been
>running successfully for the
>past 6 years. I am totally
>committed to making property
>my next business. I want to
>get out of the rat race ASAP.
>

**** a big plus that you have run a business, but are you sure you want a wrap business? There is lot of 'people work' involved, I dont want to stop you from wrapping, heck, I have wrapped, lots of people I know have wrapped, but in my opinion, you better be 100% positive that you want to do it, like everyone has said, its a business, and only about 5% of business is successful, be sure, follow a wrapper around for a couple of days.

Getting the contracts and understanding the process is the easy part, finding the property, thats all easy. But by the sounds of it, your not worried about a little bit of work, so good luck :eek:)

Cheers, TW****

>Thanks
>
>David



~Life is a daring adventure, or nothing at all~
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Yuch .


Hi David,

This is my first hand experience being a wrapper. Yes, TW is right that wrap is a business and it is a people business. Unless you are prepared to deal with people, don't bother getting into it. And besides, wrap is only a temporary solution because you still have to be physically there to make the business work, unless you can automate the business! (Well, I still haven't found a way of automating my wrap business yet.) Otherwise, you are just buying yourself another job!

In this business, the properties are not your assets but the people are. You do have to spend a lot of time educating your wrappees and their solicitors. It can be very frustrating. And educating these people is not an easy thing. Now say you've successfully wrapped a property, how do you guarantee your cashflow for the next 25 years? Sure, if the people default, you can always wrap the property to someone else. But it's not the ultimate solution either, it's just simply too much work!!! My solution to this is to TEACH my wrappees to save up and pay off their houses asap.

And again, property business or property investment are not the only way to financial freedom. Be more open minded to other investment ideas and business ideas. Personally, I think what will get me out of my rat race is to set up some business that I can franchise and park my $$$$ on blue chip properties!!!

Don't get discouraged, but think it through thoroughly then make your own decision.

Regards
yuchun
~ The secret to success is to start from scratch and keep on scratching. ~
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: David Buch


Hi all

Thanks for all the comments and responses.

You have indicated that wrapping is very much hands on /Person contact . How is this different to any other kind of property investment deal. Whether one is renting a purchased property, flinging it or wrapping, it would still be hands on requiring person contact, and still be a business ? No? What am I missing here? Whichever type of investment I do, it will be run as a business.

And yes, I am not scared of working at my goals, nor making a business work.

My basic strategy at this point is the following : I want to buy the first property, and do a quick cash, to get more liquid, then purchase a further 3 properties to rent. then a fourth to sell, (either as a wrap, or normal sale) to again get more liquid.. And then just keep repeating the process..

My goals are to be out of the rat race within 2 years...
You mentioned other means of getting out of the rat race.. I am open to ANY suggestions. I am also looking at stocks and options, but am far from ready to delve into that for the moment. As far as making businesses work.. well, I have my fingers in many pies at the moment...

I am looking at getting a group of investors together in Brisbane for informal regular meetings.. you may have seen my other post. If any of you (or anyone you know) is interested in coming along, you are more than welcome...

Again all, thanks for the input.

David
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Kevin Forster


David

We are in buy and hold positively geared properties and we don't do alot of personal contact. The renters pay the rent to the agent and the agent pays it into our nominated bank account. I select properties to look at in the areas I know well according to a mathematical formula and put in an offer based on the formulas results. I have very little personal contact and is quite unemotional. In reality - ITS BORING - but I've heard that getting wealthy is like that.

So I suppose that there are ways of getting into property with very little personal contact. With wrapping the person is the asset not the property.

Kevin
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: David Buch


HI Kevin

Yes, I agree that the person is the asset in this case.

I am not worried if I do have to have person contact or not. That is the least of my concerns..

All I am really trying to ascertain is information on the nitty gritty. I intend to be doing a number of different kind of deals which includes wrapping, buy and hold and quick cash. I will use whichever method is the most appropriate for the property or time.

Cheers
David
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mark Laszczuk


Been reading the posts...geez, guys, cheer up! You make it sound as if doing wraps is like having your teeth pulled. True, it IS a business (whether you like it or not, any investment that you are actively involved in is a business) but the rewards are incredible if you are prepared to put a little effort in. Look at John Burley - he worked his arse off for a couple of years, built his wrap 'business' up to the point where he had several people working for him and left. That's right, he now has EMPLOYEES doing his deals for him, and he doesn't have to do a thing. Sounds pretty good to me. From some of these posts, I think you guys can't see the forest for the trees. Lighten up and happy investing!
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Paul Zagoridis


Hi Mark

The people you are telling to cheer up are experienced wrappers (I have done wraps or lease/options in 3 states). But I don't like the hype that wrapping is an easy investment for average people.

You say "the rewards are incredible if you are prepared to put a little effort in". That is not generally the case. The rewards are excellent if you are prepared to do the work. Especially in this market. Of course you may have had an easier time of it. If so, please share your experiences.

As for John Burley: I used to be active on his forum and I like the guy. He was a top producer for a life company, therefore he is hardly an average guy.

The hardest thing about being a wrapper is the psychology, of yourself not the tenant/buyers. Psychobabble is the major hurdle. So an element of "just do it" is needed, but again, using John as an example is a stretch.

I've had meetings with many potential wrappers who wanted me to be their money partner. Some attitudes were "hey this is easy". Really? This is a business and I want to make sure I am investing with someone who has a system. Q: How do you handle your eviction process?

Lending money to high-risk individuals is tricky, complicated further by the CCC. But for those willing to wade out of the shallows it is a fun and profitable trip.

I look forward to hearing your stories. Hopefully they're simple and profitable.

Paul Zag
Dreamspinner
Oz Film Biz is at
http://www.healey.com.au/~paulz
 
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