Your legal opinion appreciated please!

[trish266]

I have an apartment in Richmond, 3121, VIC.

I have just received a bill from the OC for $2000 to trace faulty smoke alarms on our level and it appears the hard wired smoke alarms in our apartment were at fault. They supposedly were changed. By whom, no one knows. When? Again no one knows. Possibly back in 2013.

Our building employed new Owners Corp Management in 2014 and I have been advised by the new OC, that when they took over in June 2014 they had to methodically work their way down a list of outstanding issues. This was attended to just before Christmas. (Not much priority on something that I would have thought should have been on the top of the list)

This is part of an email my property manager received last week:-
"AEFS think this fault was present when they first took over the site for Engine Property, which was in September 2013.

However the documents they have at the office only show it from March 2014 onwards."

Now if I was informed when the fault first appeared in 2013, I could have at least been able to ask the tenants who were living there at the time, if they changed them.

I don't believe I should have to pay for this. I have basically said this to the OC and she is saying to use my landlord insurance which has also changed during this time frame.

Your opinions grately appreciated.

 

[thatbum]

So if you don't want to pay it - then who are you suggesting should be responsible?

Because I can't see any other good candidates.

 

[trish266]

The point is, if I had been advised when the fault was first detected, then my agent could have investigated it with the tenant who has long gone.

We could have also matched up records of when the routine inspection of the smoke alarms were done.

 

[Macca]

Would have been cheaper to simply replace all the smoke alarms rather than authorise that sort of cost to track down a repair.

I think the new management team is going to be expensive if that is their attitude

 

[Kate Ashmor]

Hard wired smoke detectors do not have batteries - it's unlikely the tenants would have touched them.

What do the rules of the OC say about the smoke detectors: are they part of the common property? Are you obliged to have them monitored as part of the Owners Corporation? Who is legally responsible for any faults - you or the OC?

 

[Scott No Mates]

They supposedly were changed. By whom, no one knows. When? Again no one knows. Possibly back in 2013.

Have you checked your monthly rental statements? It is a good place to start to confirm whether you have or haven't paid for any work.

Did the OC sign the AFSS for the year? Was this covered/installed at the time? Did they inspect each unit when preparing the AFSS? Was this noted as a fault? (Did the BC notify you when the inspection was booked/undertaken?)

Your opinions grately appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Hard wired smoke detectors do not have batteries - it's unlikely the tenants would have touched them.

AFAIK, hardwired smokies DO have a back up battery, power is often one of the first things to fail in a fire.

 

[DaveM]

Hard wired smoke detectors do not have batteries - it's unlikely the tenants would have touched them.

They sure do, as a backup power source

Where you have an interlinked SD system the OC should arrange annual inspection and certification as part of their annual fire safety certification

 

[Paul@PFI]

Hard wired smoke detectors do not have batteries - it's unlikely the tenants would have touched them.

Mine do. If an electric fire occurs they are designed to still work without mains power. eg a fire in the distribution board. Any smoke detector without batteriy backup would be a bit useless.

 

[Paul@PFI]

I have an apartment in Richmond, 3121, VIC.

I have just received a bill from the OC for $2000 to trace faulty smoke alarms I don't believe I should have to pay for this. I have basically said this to the OC and she is saying to use my landlord insurance which has also changed during this time frame.
.

Welcome to the word of property ownership. You also acquire all the defects and engineering flaws you haven't found yet.

 

[Bargain Hunter]

The smoke alarms are all linked throughout the units to ensure a single alarm alerts all residents, hence the reason why they had to fault find the issue.

Being a central system it must be common property and therefore the responsibility for payment would sit with the body corporate.

As such the invoice should be paid from the maintenance budget or sinking fund.

IMHO

Andrew

 

[marg4000]

The smoke alarms are all linked throughout the units to ensure a single alarm alerts all residents, hence the reason why they had to fault find the issue.

Being a central system it must be common property and therefore the responsibility for payment would sit with the body corporate.

As such the invoice should be paid from the maintenance budget or sinking fund.

IMHO

Andrew

UNLESS the damage was caused by the action of the owner or occupier of a specific unit, in which case you can't really expect the other owners to chip in for the repair costs.
Marg

 

[Bargain Hunter]

If there is a fault it will be evident in the fire panel and recorded in the log. There is not reason why there should be a question regarding when the fault occurred as this should be evident in the records.

I just can't see how anyone would have caused the fault except where the detector has been removed or damaged and if this was not evident then I don't see how it can be the individual owners responsibility.

Different brand detectors are not generally interchangeable so if there has been a change out it should be self evident.

I would be requesting maintenance records to substantiate their claim.

 

[Paul@PFI]

Did a (former?) tenant just use wire cutters to silence the low battery beeps ?? And then install a $20 Bunnings / Masters battery detector in its place ?

That would cause a fault on the board. And repeated call outs. And a expensive replacement.

 

[Azazel]

Hard wired smoke detectors do not have batteries - it's unlikely the tenants would have touched them.
What do the rules of the OC say about the smoke detectors: are they part of the common property? Are you obliged to have them monitored as part of the Owners Corporation? Who is legally responsible for any faults - you or the OC?

Our hard wired smoke detectors are checked at least once per year by the body corporate (NSW).

 

[trish266]

Thanks for all of your input and advice which I have taken on board.

Cheers

 

[S.T]

Let us know how you go with it Trish, is it a newer apartment?

 

[trish266]

No, it's approx 10+ years old. Bought it new.

 

[handyandy]

It could be that the RE signed up the previous owner to a smoke alarm monitoring contract outside of the OC. They came along and then they changed the official smoke alarm for one of theirs. They would have to be pretty ignorant but then I don't think those ruining around offering the monitoring services need to be to bright.

The OC monitoring should have picked up the problem in the first year it occurred, unless of course one of the problems with the OC was that they weren't monitoring the smokies.

As pointed out it should be pretty obvious if you have a different smoke alarm in your unit to those in the building generally.

Dig in your heels and point out the total failure of the OC.

Cheers