Your Opinions Please

[TSS]

First up, thank you for such a great forum, I've gleaned much from here. Thanks again.

Warning .... long post

We have a couple of IP, self manage and have always had awesome tenants. I mean, the kind you only dream of. We recently relet one our IP and the tenant we have put in came with dream references, from high recommendations from both previous owner and PM. We have no reason to doubt.

Tenant came through property no fewer than three times before keys were handed over. Each time commented us on the premises, how it didn't smell like all the others, that it was well presented etc. We were doing work on the place, but he could see the potential. He asked for us to do some things for him before moving (removing outdated light fittings etc) which we did happily.

Keys handed over one day early, after tenant walked through place and declared happy.

First rent due - late. Now this tenant has previous PM experience, which he never divulged to us until the day he took the keys. I still don't think it would have changed our minds.

Did we act in haste, maybe, but we sent a breach notice for late rent. With all of our properties we are upfront, the rent must be paid on time. No questions. In return, we will make sure the house is great for them.

The response was a 14 page document of how disgusting the place was, how we didn't follow through on promises to paint, improve etc before the tenant moved in. These things were never promised. We aren't that silly. And besides, my house is getting painted before anyone elses!

This document was followed up by another and then another. Each one fabricating things. The biggy is that the house was filthy when they moved in and that any reasonable PM who handed a property over like that would offer a weeks rent free as compensation. But he never contacted us to tell us so we could see what he was going on about, no, just dutifully cleaned it up, took no photos. And waited three weeks to complain about it - we can't help but think it was a letter fired off in anger, because he got a breach notice (which he now acknowledges was deserved) and is retaliation for it.

Are you seeing the picture we are? We are deeply offended by what has been sent to us, it has been a character assassination of us. We are trying to put the emotion aside and remain professional. We are more than happy to help when there is a leak or similar, but cannot keep up with this persons high (exceptionally we think, and unreasonable) standards. We had offered to do some work on the place over the coming 12 months, but he wants it done NOW and has only been in the place four weeks.

The list of 'offences' is quite lengthy and in places laughable. At least we still have our humour. We offered the tenant a cancellation of the lease, no strings, and he declined. We are still considering leaving it open ended, find another place when you can and move, with no penalty .... we are planning to completely renovate when this tenant moves out and move in ourselves, closer to kids schools. So we can move at anytime.

He has approached the state tenancy board for guidance, which is fine. We have no issue with it and to be honest, think they would see the whinge for what it is. He is now threatening to issue us with a breach for work not done, but frankly, think it is smokescreens.

What would you do? have you a similar experience? and any suggestions for moving forward. Thanks in advance.

 

[TSS]

I should also add ... the house wasn't filthy, we have the photos on the PCR (that we also can't agree one with the tenant) to back that claim up. The house was clean and presentable, more than I have experience in my rental days.

This tenant is whinging about sand under lino, from where he pulled it up to look underneath it .... the whole house is lino and I don't expect anyone to vaccum under the lino .... just to give you an idea of the 'filth' being referred to.

 

[wylie]

You don't say where the house is, but I am in Brisbane, and if this was my problem, I would follow through with the breach notice. If you have not put anything in writing about what you plan to "improve" then he has no case.

I would stay professional, follow through and if needed, take him to the tribunal. We self manage too, and this is what I would do.

Print the photos off and make sure they go to tribunal as a picture is worth a thousand words. Make sure you document every contact and keep it safe. Keep it short and readable, as when my parents took some tenants to the tribunal the "judge" read their time-line to get the story.

 

[pully]

You don't say where the house is, but I am in Brisbane, and if this was my problem, I would follow through with the breach notice. If you have not put anything in writing about what you plan to "improve" then he has no case.

I would stay professional, follow through and if needed, take him to the tribunal. We self manage too, and this is what I would do.

Print the photos off and make sure they go to tribunal as a picture is worth a thousand words. Make sure you document every contact and keep it safe. Keep it short and readable, as when my parents took some tenants to the tribunal the "judge" read their time-line to get the story.

totally agree. the tenant is late paying the rent this needs to be dealt with now. his list of demands are a separate issue.
if he will not pay the rent he needs to go. follow the legal process without delay. your photos are evidence for the tribunal.

do you think he is taking advantage of you because the property is not being professionally managed?
regards.

 

[The Y-man]

TSS, is there a condtion report or similar they have signed?

The Y-man

 

[Burbs]

Hi TSS.

Yes, I have had many similar experiences. It is common for a tenant to cite maintenance concerns in an effort to avoid payment of rent. My record is a 36 page letter lodged to consumer protection by the tenant! In case it might help, here is how I would handle the situation:

1. PCR and photos would be in place - minimum 12 pages written and 200 photographs - you have got these which is good.
2. Tenant would be issued with a breach notice when rent is 3 days late, on the dot, no variation.
3. Tenant would be listed on databases at 5 days late (already explained to them at sign up).
4. I will be calling or SMS'ing them every single day from now on until they pay.
5. Day 13, the court application for eviction goes in.
6. File notes on all conversations as others have mentioned.
7. Evict.

Please do not let this tenant off the hook, otherwise they will do it to someone else. Remember it is possible that the previous landlord gave a good reference to get rid of them. Not sure if you checked the 2nd previous landlord? The tenants are definitely trying to take advantage of you. At the court case, ensure you are well documented and that the case does not wander across into issues of condition, stick with your rent payment history and notices. And if the tenant does pay, I strongly suggest you do not renew their lease when it eventually comes up.

Burbs

 

[Dazz]

we have the photos on the PCR (that we also can't agree on with the tenant) to back that claim up.

.....and that's all it is - a claim by you, cos it is not signed by the Tenant.


Lesson learnt - do not hand them the key or let them have control of the property until they sign the PCR.


Our Tenants are never granted control of the property until the upfront cash is paid and the signatures are on paper.


As soon as they are ensconced into the property, all of your negotiating power flies straight out the window and you suddenly find they are in charge - in the eyes of the Law.


What's worse - the Tenant is a prolific writer and note taker - you are in for some pain.

 

[TSS]

totally agree. the tenant is late paying the rent this needs to be dealt with now. his list of demands are a separate issue.
if he will not pay the rent he needs to go. follow the legal process without delay. your photos are evidence for the tribunal.

do you think he is taking advantage of you because the property is not being professionally managed?regards.

This is what we are thinking, or that by pestering, we might hand it over.

The tenant has paid their rent and has actually admitted as late as Friday they were wrong to not ensure it was paid on time previously. This last week's was paid one day early.

Some of the requests we cannot meet - due to Australian Building Codes etc. Others we don't want to (enclosing carport so they can use it as a shed, when a shed is already on the premises). Some of the other whinges are just ludacrous (that brand new carpet, just laid fresh for them, is in only 'reasonable' condition and the colour doesn't match the walls). I can move past them, I think they want the house finished to a standard they would want if it was their own home.

Tenant has said that there responsibility to speak up about the condition of the home didn't come into effect until the day the lease commenced. In their eyes, even though we gave them access to the house the day before, they believe they were not required to speak up before then that the house wasn't to their standard, that it is now up to us to get it to their standard. I think thats a load of hogwash, that they took the lease after sighting the property 3 times for considerable length on each prior to the keys being handed over. Even to the extent of asking for things to be done, some of which we agreed to and did. It's not a new home by any stretch of the mark, is 20+ years old, with a kitchen and bathroom that were updated about 10 years ago. But it is aged and is the way it is staying. There is no burnt orange or lime green, so it is modern enough!

I think we are just in for some pain, we plan to meet with the tenant in a weeks time to sit down and discuss some things. We want to the relationship to be amicable but business like also. Think they want us to be best buds, but that isn't how I do things.

All contact with this tenant has been noted, with file notes after each phone call etc. All letters have been sent registered mail, with confirmation, so we are covering all bases.

Thanks for your thoughts, I don't think we will end up down the path of the tribunal, I just don't like being bullied. Intimidation of this calibre just gets my back up and makes me reluctant to be flexible.

Ho hum, joked with hubby, I am earning my 'salary' on this one!

 

[wylie]

Stick to your guns. They are trying it on, and as you say, what they are saying is hogwash.

Show them who's boss, and that doesn't mean you have to get nasty. Just get "business like".

Go girl.....

 

[pully]

yes good luck with this situation.

if you would prefer to self manage i wonder if you could get some assistance from a landlord association or similar?

i know in south australia one was operating. just google and see what comes up.

we have all ours professionally managed so have not had to personally take control but have been privy to some decision making and problem solving at times.

i also wonder if this tenant is sending pages of complaints etc it seems a bit over the top?
it seems unbalanced and unreasonable. is he??

we are required to fix, repair and maintain reasonable requests promptly and we do, but faced with pages and pages would require a different approach.
you say he inspected the place x3 before accepting, so he knew what the property was like?

lots and lots of faults would require time to fix. what does he expect?
a full renovation? that if done will require an adjustment up in rent. is he happy about that?

he sounds a pain! good luck.

 

[TSS]

yes good luck with this situation.

if you would prefer to self manage i wonder if you could get some assistance from a landlord association or similar?

i know in south australia one was operating. just google and see what comes up.

we have all ours professionally managed so have not had to personally take control but have been privy to some decision making and problem solving at times.

i also wonder if this tenant is sending pages of complaints etc it seems a bit over the top?
it seems unbalanced and unreasonable. is he??

we are required to fix, repair and maintain reasonable requests promptly and we do, but faced with pages and pages would require a different approach.
you say he inspected the place x3 before accepting, so he knew what the property was like?

lots and lots of faults would require time to fix. what does he expect?
a full renovation? that if done will require an adjustment up in rent. is he happy about that?

he sounds a pain! good luck.

The thought crossed our minds. Even to the point where this tenant has advised the tenancy board to post all the information they have on being a landlord to us .... just so we know our obligations. It's very over the top and needs to be managed with kid gloves, but at an adult level. It's a try on and we know it, doesn't make me any happier about it.

There isn't reams and reams to be done to the house, it is just a dated house, something which I don't think he is happy with. he knew before he signed what he was getting, can't change it after the horse has bolted, doesn't work like that. But if you want a modern house, you have to pay $$$ for it, we are charging under market rent by $30 per week as it is (which is $1500 a year). And you are right, IF we agree to upgrade anything, we will certainly be reviewing the rent to reflect the increase in comfort and amenities.

Ho hum, day two in four weeks today, where we haven't heard from the tenant, either by phone or letter. Mind you the postie hasn't been so that could all change.

Thank you so much for your thoughts everyone, sometimes I think I just needed some validation. Hubby maintains, I get to chase and organise everything. Think he has the easy job half the time!

 

[TSS]

An Update

Just thought I would let you know of a win for the lowly landlord!

We received a letter from the tenant saying that they had been advised by the tenancy board that they suggest the tenant's only feasible solution is to ask the landlords (us) to consider a mutual termination of the lease.

We may have read more into it, but given the strength of the tenants convictions over the last couple of months, we know they wouldn't have caved so easily unless those communications also told them that there is no case for what they are claiming and to put up with or move out.

So we have met with the tenant and agreed on a 30 day termination of the lease, so they will be out before the middle of November. We were happy to do so, for the simple fact that the amount of time, effort and stress this one tenancy has caused, I think I would rather have a silent tenant who was picking the plaster off the walls!

So, tenancy board ruled in our favour and tenant/us have agreed to end the business relationship and move on. And I'm now choosing the final colours for my new kitchen!

 

[Perp]

Great outcome, TSS.