Navra & Spann Funds
- Thread starter Grego
- Start date
geoffw said:
That's a bit of a revelation to me that the All Ords does not includes dividends.
All the managed funds I have seen compare themselves with the index (All Ords, or asx200). I'm pretty they were comparing their growth and distributions against the index.
Most fail to match the index. That means that their performance is way below the index when you take dividends into consideration...
I'll have to double-check, but it changes the picture a bit in regards to the performance of managed funds.
Thanks,
Marty,kissfan said:
Yeah considered it, and I'd prefer it to the Aus fund as the extra volatility in the US makes their market more suited to Steve's DCT methodology. But, I'm looking to diversify into some growth funds away from income funds as I don't need the cash right now and they're more tax effective. That's why I like the Platinum Asia for now. I might swap my 1/3 NavTrade Retail exposure completely over to the US when that gets off the ground and thereby limit my ASX exposure to the StreetTracks tracker fund.
Cheers,
Michael.
Yes this is true. It's close to dishonest imo.
Good luck finding an Aussie share fund that outperforms the ASX200 accumulation index in risk adjusted returns.
Div yield for the ASX200 is tracking around the 4.15% mark last time I checked.
You'll need to check each fund manager's website....
To be honest, my figures are in such a state I couldn't give you a clear answer other than:
absolute return funds - flat
long share funds - strong growth
value share funds - some growth
cpt's - more growth than income
Cheers,
The Y-man
Good luck finding an Aussie share fund that outperforms the ASX200 accumulation index in risk adjusted returns.
Div yield for the ASX200 is tracking around the 4.15% mark last time I checked.
Blown away by the Indicies not including yields and funds do so! What about Vanguard or similar index funds? Do their returns match the basic nonyield index or are they also distorting the total return? After all, aren't they a computor driven fund based on the ASX?
Div yield for the ASX200 is tracking around the 4.15% mark last time I checked.
Blown away by the Indicies not including yields and funds do so! What about Vanguard or similar index funds? Do their returns match the basic nonyield index or are they also distorting the total return? After all, aren't they a computor driven fund based on the ASX?
Just wondering with some old posts like these is anyone still investing with Mr NARVA and his setup, if so how has the investment panned out over the past 2 years and more, even with the past 9 month downturn and as time progresses was it a good investment??,The same goes for Mr Spann'S setups were they "THE " good investment compared to simple buy and hold property investing,or simple buy and hold equities on the ASX anyone?.willair..
Hi Willair
I went to NAVRA conf about 6 months ago and decided to watch performance before jumping in.
I was looking for a product which would help my cashflow. At the conference there was mention of volatility in the market, however the talk was that this product would perform well regardless as it is a trading fund, not buy and hold.
To date I can not really get my head around it as the fund appeared to be losing capital value, but this seemed to be OK as you would be receiving an income. So you may lose 25% CG to receive 15% income (just an example).
With rising IR and costs involved it made little sense to me, bit like robbing Paul to pay Peter and getting charged a fee for it.
I have not been tracking it recently so I would be keen to hear what is happening.
Cheers, MTR
I went to NAVRA conf about 6 months ago and decided to watch performance before jumping in.
I was looking for a product which would help my cashflow. At the conference there was mention of volatility in the market, however the talk was that this product would perform well regardless as it is a trading fund, not buy and hold.
To date I can not really get my head around it as the fund appeared to be losing capital value, but this seemed to be OK as you would be receiving an income. So you may lose 25% CG to receive 15% income (just an example).
With rising IR and costs involved it made little sense to me, bit like robbing Paul to pay Peter and getting charged a fee for it.
I have not been tracking it recently so I would be keen to hear what is happening.
Cheers, MTR
You can see the results on their website.
2007/2008: -12.4% (retail), -12.08% (wholesale), -22.42% (US)
YTD (ie. just over a month): -1.39% (retail), -1.31% (wholesale), +9.30% (US)
Since inception in May 03, the retail fund shows an accumulative performance of 64.95% to July 08. Not sure exactly what accumulative performance is, but if it's just absolute return since the fund started, then that works out at almost exactly 10% pa annum (see attached graph - the vertical axis is %).
GP
2007/2008: -12.4% (retail), -12.08% (wholesale), -22.42% (US)
YTD (ie. just over a month): -1.39% (retail), -1.31% (wholesale), +9.30% (US)
Since inception in May 03, the retail fund shows an accumulative performance of 64.95% to July 08. Not sure exactly what accumulative performance is, but if it's just absolute return since the fund started, then that works out at almost exactly 10% pa annum (see attached graph - the vertical axis is %).
GP
Attachments
Peter Spann was promoting something like this product several years ago.
The performance of this Macquarie Multi-strategy capital guaranteed fund has cured me of any desire to outsource investments.
The performance of this Macquarie Multi-strategy capital guaranteed fund has cured me of any desire to outsource investments.
Sim
Administrator
Comparing a fund against the STW ASX200 index tracking ETF (dividends reinvested, ignoring tax), is a pretty good comparison to "the market" (especially since the STW ETF is something you can actually invest in and achieve exactly the returns that the stats show!).
Over the past few years with strongly rising markets, the Navra funds have underperformed - taking profits does lead to lower upside when the markets keep going up.
When the markets go down, the Navra funds tend to fall less than the market - the cash they hold helps smooth out the returns, although as the fund starts to invest more as the market drops further, it does tend to follow the market down.
However, once the market starts to recover, the Navra fund starts to outperform again - a result of buying cheaply.
For this financial year so far, the Navra retail fund is outperforming the STW ETF by nearly 3% ... with similar results for the past 12 months (see attached chart), or visit: Comparing Charts: NAV0001AU, STW
For the purposes of income generation, the Navra funds tend to be more consistent in their returns ... they pay quarterly distributions versus half-yearly for the STW ETF, while STW tends to pay much more in the June distribution than the December one.
However, because the Navra funds tend to pay out more income overall (as a percentage of total return), if you take the distributions as cash and don't re-invest, then you will get a much lower return overall in the long term with Navra, since there is a much lower buy-and-hold (growth) component compared to the STW ETF. That's the cost of investing for "income + a bit of growth" versus investing for "growth + a bit of income".
Naturally if you then consider after-tax returns, Navra will come out worse-off because there is more income to be taxed each year - but the point of the fund is that you are using that income to offset holding costs of negatively geared assets, thus the taxation side of things doesn't tend to come into it as much.
Overall, it seems like the Navra fund is good at paying regular income and lowers the volatility of the market somewhat, losing less than the market in a downturn - at the cost of not gaining quite so much in a rising market.
It will be very interesting to see how the fund performs during an extended side-ways period - this should theoretically be the sweet-spot for the fund, able to generate trading profits while the market doesn't really achieve much.
Over the past few years with strongly rising markets, the Navra funds have underperformed - taking profits does lead to lower upside when the markets keep going up.
When the markets go down, the Navra funds tend to fall less than the market - the cash they hold helps smooth out the returns, although as the fund starts to invest more as the market drops further, it does tend to follow the market down.
However, once the market starts to recover, the Navra fund starts to outperform again - a result of buying cheaply.
For this financial year so far, the Navra retail fund is outperforming the STW ETF by nearly 3% ... with similar results for the past 12 months (see attached chart), or visit: Comparing Charts: NAV0001AU, STW
For the purposes of income generation, the Navra funds tend to be more consistent in their returns ... they pay quarterly distributions versus half-yearly for the STW ETF, while STW tends to pay much more in the June distribution than the December one.
However, because the Navra funds tend to pay out more income overall (as a percentage of total return), if you take the distributions as cash and don't re-invest, then you will get a much lower return overall in the long term with Navra, since there is a much lower buy-and-hold (growth) component compared to the STW ETF. That's the cost of investing for "income + a bit of growth" versus investing for "growth + a bit of income".
Naturally if you then consider after-tax returns, Navra will come out worse-off because there is more income to be taxed each year - but the point of the fund is that you are using that income to offset holding costs of negatively geared assets, thus the taxation side of things doesn't tend to come into it as much.
Overall, it seems like the Navra fund is good at paying regular income and lowers the volatility of the market somewhat, losing less than the market in a downturn - at the cost of not gaining quite so much in a rising market.
It will be very interesting to see how the fund performs during an extended side-ways period - this should theoretically be the sweet-spot for the fund, able to generate trading profits while the market doesn't really achieve much.
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Sim
Administrator
Exactly - that's what I meant. Volatility is the key - the market like we're seeing at the moment with some big swings in both directions should be ideal.
I think Navra are 35% Shares 65% Cash at the moment
I for one am glad it went to cash when it did when the funancial markets tumbled, saved us a world of hurt
Fund will pay a distribution as the Financial Year winds up, who knows, with this volatility it may be reasonable
Not sure why only 65%, possibly to do with the warrants many unit holders went too, or playing it close should the bear stampede (do bears stampede?)
I for one am glad it went to cash when it did when the funancial markets tumbled, saved us a world of hurt
Fund will pay a distribution as the Financial Year winds up, who knows, with this volatility it may be reasonable
Not sure why only 65%, possibly to do with the warrants many unit holders went too, or playing it close should the bear stampede (do bears stampede?)
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