21stCenturyAcademy

[redwing]

J M

I recieved jamies book "What I didn't learn at School but wish I had" whilst at the Perth Expo..

It's been an interesting read so far, I find the take on the banks and 'world domination type information" a bit too "conspiracy theory" for me, I'm progessing through the book though and will probably have a look at the new dvd as well (3hrs of info I believe).

It's funny, whenever it comes to Jamie it seems some investors swear by him whilst others swear at him?

PS-

Whilst searching here I found this old post

Any Idea how WEBBOARD went with this idea?



I have decided to devote a lot of my time to investigating investment property marketers and those offering wealth creation courses or seminars.

Why am I doing this? Because, having been previously shafted by an investment marketer, and seeing so many people burnt by some of the marketing guru's, I've decided to find out once and for all who is good, who is bad and who should be avoided at all costs.

Also, I've seen lot's of requests on this Forum for information about various marketing/financial/investment/training companies, so I've decided to compile an exhaustive encyclopedia of every known operator in the IP industry, which may help many newbies make wise decisions.

I am going to publish my findings on a weekly (or thereabouts) frequency, by email only, to anyone who wants it.

I will be approaching each target company as a prospective (newbie) client and will get them to do their entire sales pitch on me, including presenting me with properties to purchase or courses/seminars to attend.

I am not a newbie, and I have enough knowledge to ask all the right questions, make all the necessary enquiries and to judge the merits of the services they provide or the properties they are selling. In the case of companies actually selling property, I am also going to find out exactly how much money they make, who they represent and what margins are being applied. I am also going to insist on actual testimonials from previous clients and talk to them as well to obtain their real life experiences.

I'm going to have a lot of fun with this!

I am going to do this with companies in Melbourne and Sydney, then publish my results. I must stress that the findings will be my opinion only resulting from my personal dealings with each particular company. I know of the potential legal ramifications of this, so nothing will be emailed until it has been cleared by my solicitor.

By the way, I don't sell anything and I'm not a reporter looking for a story. I am doing this cos I want to.

If you would like to receive my email updates on each company as I complete each one, please send me an email requesting this. Send your email to [email protected].

If you have suggestions of particular companies you think I should investigate let me know their names and contact details and I'll see if I can include them.

Property Investigator
Expect the best, plan for the worst.

 

[geoffw]

PropertyInvestigator was threatened with legal action by one of the first companies he/she investigated, and went underground.

 

[Peter Parker]

I recieved jamies book

It's been an interesting read so far, I find the take on the banks and 'world domination type information" a bit too "conspiracy theory" for me,

I've just finished reading it.

I'm always intrigued by the varied 'extra curricular' hobbies and activities of gurus, from Jan Somer's shoe collecting to John Fitzgerald's childrens homes. These other interests are consistent about the idea of people having a higher aim rather than just chasing dollars through their investing.

McIntyre's thing is apparently the World Solutions Institute http://www.worldsolutionsinstitute.com (mainly Mormon links at the moment) and a political movement called 'Australians for Australia'.

If a websearch is any guide, nothing seems to have come from the latter, though I notice he's been active in supporting Pauline Hanson's One Nation, through advertising on the ON East Coast Qld website http://www.onbeenleigh.8k.com/

Also interesting is the similar line of argument on page 31 of 'What I didn't Learn at School but wish I had' and Tony Pitt's writings on banking here: http://www.users.bigpond.com/tonypitt/id59_pitt.htm

Rgds, Peter

 

[vandalic]

A quick run down about what I've read and heard about the company in question over the years...

- there has been ongoing court legal and ASIC battles due to Jamie having no financial advisor qualifications. He calls himself an "educator" not a financial advisor
- some of his local australian investment seminars were postponed due to legal proceedings and he conducts most of his "education" in Fiji and New Zealand, by recruiting members to come there to learn
- the forum board his company runs also begun redirecting and calling itself a NZ Investment Forum, rather than the previous Austrailan forum after ASIC investigations earlier this year
- he was ordered to stop selling his book as it contained statements regarded as investment advice, and it was later altered and put back onto the shelf
- a few of his previous companies have been liquidated, and he still runs about 10 different companies branching into the same business
- the "education" coach on his web site (Bill Stacey) that you can pay thousands of dollars to teach you their methods, only bought the training program and started in investing from scratch himself a few years ago. He is not qualified to offer financial advice either.

I have read his book and watched his free dvd and in my opinion, it is nothing you cannot research and learn from others without having to spend thousands of dollars.

With this said, it is best to do your own research into the company and go with what you see fit. Start with a google search for "jamie mcintyre".

 

[redwing]

You should be able to get his book 'free' in e-book format from his site..

REDWING

 

[markpatric]

I watched the dvd and have to say imho it is utter crap.

Another spinoff from the school of Robert Kiyosaki, find a great idea then sell it, sell it again and keep feeding the machine full of readily available info, all the while charging top dollar for it.

It`s easy to be a scammer, the info you can use is everywhere just organise it put your fancy name on it to make it your own, slick your hair back, dangle a few carrots, start a BS revolution and put yourself at the top of the money tree!.

Bottom line is Kiyosaki and the rest all prey on those desparately unhappy millions who want to believe there is money for nothing out there, all the while running down the mentality of your average everyday hardworking majority, without who, ALL of us would be nothing and nowhere!.

Jokes over!.

 

[Peter Parker]

When you chuck two stones into a pond you see all sorts of collisions and confluences between the waves. In different areas waves may add to form a bigger wave, change direction or cancel each other out, leaving not much at all.

The two stones in this case is 1. the doctrine of individual success that McIntyre sells (not dissimilar to other gurus) and 2. the musings about banks, the monetary system, how we are being taken over by foreigners and are basically going down the gurgler.

The latter was hinted at in what redwing called the 'world domination type information' in the book. Such musings are not new and have been peddled by fringe right-wing groups for ages (think League of Rights, LaRouche, CEC, National Action, etc). Electorally they were about as successful (and as divided) as the various divisions of the Communist Party (Soviet, Maoists, Trottskyists, etc).

Then the Pauline Hanson thing happened. Many of the sentiments (most notably a rejection of internationism, economic autarky and trade protectionism) got tagged onto the Hanson/One Nation movement.

This may be because the Labor Party became more internationalist since Gough Whitlam, the Liberals couldn't be considered (being the party of capital) and the Qld Nationals had Ron Boswell (and Tim Fischer federally) who rejected agrarian socialism and supported free trade.

Hanson (for a while) was electorally popular, something which eluded the old far-right groups, so some sort of takeover of ON made sense. (The Left has had similar issues with the Socialist Workers Party taking over the NDP (peace activists) in the 80s, but I digress).

Now what are the economic policies advocated by the far right?

They are typically things like:

- Re-regulating the currency and financial markets
- Returning to a gold standard
- Limiting the amount banks can lend
- Regulations to limit our ability to borrow from overseas
- Cheap loans to farmers and strugging businesses (who produce real things, as opposed to 'parasitic industries' like real estate and tourism)
- Tariffs and quotas so we replace imports with local manufactures, get a trade surplus and 'buy back the farm'
- Pulling out of international agreements and conventions
- Huge government infrastructure projects (eg maglev railways across the top end)

Now this is where the currents collide.

Most of the success/investment guru stuff requires you to borrow to obtain leverage (if you're not already rich).

Thus the ability to obtain sufficient credit at sufficiently low interest rates is critical to success.

The latter requires a de-regulated and internationalised financial market to happen (the domestic savings rate in Australia being so low). Otherwise we just get a 1961-style 'credit squeeze' with onerous conditions and limits on loans (if we're lucky) or none at all.

Now this might stop Australians borrowing from foreigners (as the above policies are designed to do) but it's also going to cut down the ability of investors to do their stuff. The cheap loans for one favoured class of borrower may also mean higher interest rates for other types of borrowers (including investors).

So on one hand McIntyre champions the use of borrowed money in becoming 'financial independent' as individuals, but on the other appears sympathetic with elements that discourage borrowing, particularly for investing (which is regarded with suspicion).

Aren't the currents interesting?

Peter

 

[markpatric]

Yes, it`s astounding how all gurus are selectively stupid.

Too many cheats, and not enough idiots imo.

 

[leah]

what a depressing mob of people you are!

Jenman - oh pppplllleeeeasssseeee he doesn't like anyone.

I've done Jamie's course - let me tell you what it is... I'm not saying it's the be all and end all - it's just a course.

It teaches people what they need to know about investing. Ie he does the 3 day seminar thing, brings in experts to talk on topics such as shares, property investing, trusts, tax, etc, etc.

But of course all you know it all's wouldn't need to do the course - 'cause you're sssoooo smart yourself!!!

Sorry but so much negativity is just depressing!

 

[Peter Parker]

what a depressing mob of people you are!

Sorry but so much negativity is just depressing!

Leah, I assume I'm counted as part of this 'depressing mob'.

What appears as 'negativity' to some can just as easily be construed as 'due diligence', 'research' or 'keeping your eyes open' to others.

These latter three are all handy tools for the prudent investor.

I agree that too much due diligence could well become 'analysis paralysis', or even morph into 'negativity'.

This is why the amount of due dilligence should be appropriate to the task at hand and the risks involved (no more and no less).

The due dilligence required for a $30 book is obviously much less than a $3000 seminar. And even if you had doubts, you might still buy the book as parts may be useful. Even if there aren't, the $30 loss is trivial and burning a bad book will keep you warm in winter (the same cannot be said for DVDs!).

When it comes to expensive seminars (especially those that advocate complicated techniques) more advanced due diligence is fully appropriate.

Such due diligence could include enquiries into a spruiker's background and record, contacting ASIC, questions on discussion forums like these and more.

Had more people done this (ie been 'negative' in your terminology), then fewer would have been ripped off by the Henry Kayes of this world.

One of my interests is in the history of political and economic ideas. It is fair to say that this influences my view of people when I notice them supporting multiple sets of doctrines that are logically inconsistent. Other people have other interests and experiences that helps them how they assess people.

McIntyre's job as a wealth spruiker carries a particular set of assumptions about individuals, society and economic relationships. In particular it is a very individualistic success-driven orientation in a global marketplace where freely flowing capital is accessible to entrepeneurs. This is not unique to McIntyre, almost every personal investing book (or even online forums!) will have similar assumptions, even if after a while they become unconscious.

When we look at McIntyre's apparently favoured politics we see a different set of assumptions. In other words a collective or community orientation where capital flows are tightly regulated by a national (and nationalist) government and lending is only used for 'productive' politically-approved purposes).

I'm not going to argue the merits of individualism+internationalism vs collectivism+nationalism here, except to say that these appear to be some quite stark differences. Investigating how the promoter reconciles these is fair game for any due diligence process. Such an investigation mainly comprises information gathering and represents an opening of one's mind rather than a closing.

As mentioned before, if one is going to pay dearly for a seminar then the standards of integrity of a presenter needs to be higher than for an author of a cheap book. Checking integrity might properly include subject matters such as the above. Enquiries need not be exhaustive; only enough probing that leads one to form a fair opinion (and decide whether to attend or not) is necessary.

To recap a previous point, appropriate due diligence is not about being negative, but rather about being prudent and sensible.

Being prudent is every person's right, and, possibly unlike some other rights, the more it is exercised the better.

Peter

 

[lizzie]

Bottom line is Kiyosaki and the rest all prey on those desparately unhappy millions who want to believe there is money for nothing out there, all the while running down the mentality of your average everyday hardworking majority, without who, ALL of us would be nothing and nowhere!.

actually, it was kiyosaki that got me into property investing. a lot of his stuff in rdpd is good advice for total learners who have absolutely no idea - it really put some lightbulbs on in my mind. finally i understood, thru his simple teaching, the difference between good debt/bad debt, asset/liability and the big one - the way cash flows.

i admit that his latter books were an interesting read but i didn't get much out of them, they became repetitive and i feel i've outgrown his teachings - but don't knock the bloke for opening the eyes of so many to what is possible.

 

[markpatric]

Spot on I agree, his first couple of books were great, the best out there!, but then he moves on to selling extraordinarily expensive packages of readily accessible info to his loyal flock to the point he has no credability left, after all he did admit the first and best book was an exercise in marketing.
I have no problem with the content, but I personally do have a big problem with the price tags!, people are being played like fools.

 

[leah]

To spiderman

My comments were not necessarily relating to you. I didn't really read your posts (too long and I didn't go to Uni!)

I fully agree on doing due diligence (I did, otherwise I wouldn't know who Jenman is!) but you need to look for positives and negatives of any course, book, whatever.

I don't care what Jamie's political ideals are - each to their own. (my ex boss wouldn't buy weetbix believing sanitarium is owned by the seven day aventists or whatever) he he I probably should but... I don't!! We all have our own passions.

Seminars are certainly not for everyone - i was a real beginer so i learnt a lot (mostly that i still have a lot to learn). There's a lot i would change in the
program too.