$100,000/pa Passive Income...

True but inner areas are still not your Toorak kind of areas or Mosman in Sydney and Dalkeith in Perth which is what i was more or less alluding to.

I take your point thopugh

Sure- but Mosman and Toorak also arent the kind of areas that 95% of the investor population invests in, whether we are talking NRAS, non NRAS, new, old, etc...

I concede, I concede lol - NRAS is fantastic - but I cant make it work magic in million plus price points :)
 
Not only is it indexed to rental CPI, but independent rental appraisals are done in Years 1,4 and 7 to bring your market rent back in line with local conditions- just in case rental CPI has been outperformed by local increases in the intervening years

Again, that's why I have a problem with the way you market these things here.

Market reviews are a double edged sword - and yes I have been tenants of things subject to market reviews and landlords of many things subject to them. You could well get revalued down.
 
The 10% return is simple to demonstrate.

Even allowing for 105%gearing ( total purchase, legals and stamp duty) here's an example.

400K Apartment in low rise development, in NSW.

Total funds borrowed = 425K (use any structure you like. But for the purpose of this exercise lets use 10% + costs/stamp duty borrowed from equity plus 90%+LMI against the investment purchase . So @ 65K of your equity has been used in this example. )

Funds are borrowed at 4.79% - so 425K x 4.79% = $20,357.50 repayments
Allow 5K for p/mgt, rates, insurance, strata and NRAS admin fee
Total expenses = @ 25,375.50

Income $400 ( minus 20% ) = $16,640 per annum

Cash Flow Loss = @ $8735.50
Depreciation = @ 10K
Total Deductible Loss = $18,735.50

ATO Refund @ 37% MTR = $6.932.14 + $10,350 NRAS = $17,282.14. CF+ $8546.64 You invested 65K of equity to receive $8,546.64 tax free after all costs = 13.14% Tax Free Return

ATO Refund @ 45% MTR = $8430.98+ $10350 NRAS = $18,780.98 CF + $10,045.48. You invested @ 65K of equity to generate $ 10,045.48 tax free after all costs are accounted for. 15.45% Tax Free Return


if you purchased a 400K apartment in Melbourne, the returns would be lower because stamp duty is 10K dearer. 5% stamp duty vs 4%, and no 5K rebate available for the purchase of new stock, unlike in NSW . So you'd be putting 75K of equity in to the same 400K property, instead of 65K. And generally, you'd also get lower market rent on a 400K apartment in Melbourne. More likely $370-380 per week vs $400-420 for the same 400K spent in Sydney. The net result would be that you can expect results closer to 9.5- 10 % Tax Free in Melbourne, instead of 13-15% like I've just demonstrated for Sydney.

So the results vary depending on the interest rate you borrow at, the market rental yield, and stamp duty costs ...

Here's another example, at a lower price point - some clients just purchased units in Brisbane at 260K. 10% deposit = 26K. Stamps = @ 7400K. That's 33.4K plus 2K for legals, to get in. Total equity invested = 35.4K.

The properties are tenanted at 330 per week, minus 20%. The cash flows are therefore

Costs = Loan of 275K @ 4.79% - $13,172.50 I/O
Holding Costs = 5K
Total Costs $ 18,172.50

Income ( after applying 20% discount ) = $13,728

Cash Flow Loss= $5000
Depreciation = $7500
Total Deduction = $12,500.

ATO Refund @ 37% $4625 + $10350 = $14,975 CF +$9975. Equity Invested 35.4K. 28.18% Tax Free Return

ATO Refund @ 45% $5625 + 10,350 = $15,975 CF + $10,975
Equity Invested 35.4K 31% Tax Free Return

Read my earlier post.

I said you'd probably get 10%. But even then without capital growth it's a pretty mediocre investment - especially given the risk it won't grow.

Also don't forget, a small half of your cashflow is based on tax losses. Meaning it's only useful if I go to work.
 
Again, that's why I have a problem with the way you market these things here.

Market reviews are a double edged sword - and yes I have been tenants of things subject to market reviews and landlords of many things subject to them. You could well get revalued down.

You CANNOT receive less than Rental CPI for that year. You can however, be increased ABOVE rental CPI for that year if local conditions have outperformed Rental CPI. Your worst case outcome is Rental CPI- full stop. And that has achieved 5.2% average since NRAS was introduced in 2008/9
 
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Read my earlier post.

I said you'd probably get 10%. But even then without capital growth it's a pretty mediocre investment - especially given the risk it won't grow.

Also don't forget, a small half of your cashflow is based on tax losses. Meaning it's only useful if I go to work.



Well, no- that's incorrect in most instances. Whether you are at work or not, your rental properties generate assessable taxable income, no?

And certainly, for the overwhelming majority of investors who actually do have debt, do need to work and do need to utilise neg gearing ( perhaps you're one of the very , very few for whom that isnt applicable) investment property requires an assessable income with which to offset deductible losses no??

Or put another way- how many current or prospective property investors would actually invest without the assistance neg gearing provides? Plunge money into a loss making enterprise on the promise of growth? Or alternatively, how many current or prospective property investors would invest if they didnt have any income?

Neg Gearing is undeniably the mechanism the vast majority of investors rely upon to assist them in the ownership costs of a property, at some point in the ownership lifeline ... everything goes CF+ pre tax if you own it long enough. But rarely do properties start that way. Unless it's got no debt or is running CF+ before tax, of course - in which case - NRAS still adds $10,350 in additional income ( minus the 20% reduction in rent) no?


And income from employment is undeniably the mechanism banks rely upon to lend you ( the investor) money to build the pre tax CF+ portfolio you're implying is under your stewardship...

I'm more than happy to publish numbers to support what I am saying - why wont you? :)

PS - at least you've finally conceded its useful!
 
What about if you're on a couple hundred k passive income.
Would that income be treated any different to "earned" income?

Well, what are you investing time here for ? Ha! Go and live the life :) You've hit most peoples end goal , if you've got 200K + of tax free passive income finding its way to your bank account each year :)
 
Well, no- that's incorrect in most instances. Whether you are at work or not, your rental properties generate assessable taxable income, no?

I'm more than happy to publish numbers to support what I am saying - why wont you? :)

If you're generating negative gearing, then your assessable taxable income is a loss.

Publish numbers? No need to. I'm not selling anything on this forum, nor encourage people to email me to ask me about what to invest in.
 
Thought better of it. I stand by the numbers. They are there for all to see, and they are there for all to scrutinise, and they add up.
 
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