anyone buying in sydney at the moment?

investor · 24th Dec, 2002

Originally posted by alpina

really enjoy threads that talk about specific locations and peoples views of them.

julie

Hi alpina, ajax and lawsjs

Yes I like all of the eastern suburbs personally. I always look for a good buy in anyone of these suburbs. I don't think abit of a debate regarding Redfern is going to hurt or upset anyone. After all if we keep on agreeing with each other for fear that we may upset someone, that will make this forum rather dull.

This is how we learn by reading different views on different subjects, and it's even better when they are concentrated on a specific suburb.

Keep it up, are there any other suburbs in the east you would like to disect ?

Regards

alpina · 24th Dec, 2002

darlinghurst, elizabeth bay and woolloomooloo spring immedidately to mind

julie

Pele · 24th Dec, 2002

Gday

I would like youse to discuss Potts Point, Wollomolloo, Kings Cross, Elizabeth Bay, Rushcutters Bay, Edgecliff and Darling Point.

Pele.

active74 · 24th Dec, 2002

as for the crime rate, i would'nt wan't to live in redfern. i installed an alarm for a lady who had her place broken into while she was sleeping,he walked upstairs into her bedroom and stole her laptop, this was only after moving in a couple of weeks prior.

bbruham · 25th Dec, 2002

G'day all,

Some parts of Redfern you wouldn't be seen dead in. But other parts I would kill to own. Such a street is KEPOS STREET.
You only have to drive into this street to love it. I'm saving my pennies to buy one of the cute little terrace properties.

Bruce G.

lawsjs · 25th Dec, 2002

Investor - Considering your nomenclature you are battling badly! Completely missing the point. Redfern has had far better gains than Paddo BTW. Surry Hills has also had substantially poorer growth. 2br terraces are selling for 600k+ so if you want to buy one in redfern that cheap you had better hurry up!

Ajax - You are a genius!
I had also been told the same with TNT towers and council. I believed the units story cos I thought it would make more sense from a developers point of view - Are you certain council is moving there?

investor · 25th Dec, 2002

Originally posted by lawsjs
Investor - Considering your nomenclature you are battling badly! Completely missing the point. Redfern has had far better gains than Paddo BTW. Surry Hills has also had substantially poorer growth. 2br terraces are selling for 600k+ so if you want to buy one in redfern that cheap you had better hurry up!

Consider them as 10 Christmas presents

Regards

alpina · 25th Dec, 2002

some real cheapies there

guess hugo street is one of the even shadier streets of redfern?

julie

investor · 25th Dec, 2002

Originally posted by alpina
some real cheapies there

guess hugo street is one of the even shadier streets of redfern?

julie

Yes alpina it is, but none the less it is still Redfern. You see, one or two good streets don't make a suburb. You have to look at the suburb as a whole.

When the median house price of a suburb is 485K and this is taken from here ENTER 2016 FOR THE SUBURB

http://www.homepriceguide.com.au/snapshot/price/index.cfm?action=view&source=apm

then do you consider it smart to purchase at 200K - 300K above the median price of a suburb ?

and if you think the gains are good then check this out
ENTER 2025 FOR THE SUBURB

http://www.homepriceguide.com.au/snapshot/price/index.cfm?action=view&source=apm

which is where I buy houses and terraces.

Regards

Lotana · 25th Dec, 2002

Investor,

I think you put too much value in median suburb prices. Most suburbs have areas /streets with more consistent values than the suburb as a whole. There is nothing wrong with buying a $600K house in a suburb with $400 median price, if the price is justified by large than average land area, or by more desirable area within the suburb. Suburbs like Redfern are attractive also for their potential to undergo a complete makeover over time when the socio-economics of its population improve. How far can Woollahra’s socio-economics improve?

Say cheese

Lotana

P.S. Last night we cooked Fondue (cheese + white wine + spices boiling in a pot on a table and everybody dipping their forks with bred, meat, or vegies). It had an overwhelming success, especially the kiddies liked it. I think it’s a Swiss meal.

investor · 25th Dec, 2002

Originally posted by Lotana
Suburbs like Redfern are attractive also for their potential to undergo a complete makeover over time when the socio-economics of its population improve. How far can Woollahra’s socio-economics improve?
Lotana

Hi Lotana

Once again do have any specific information to back your claim that Redfern will undergo a complete makeover and it's socio-economic outlook is going to improve ?

What credible information do you have that the hundreds of commission houses are going to be removed from Redfern even in your lifetime ?

If you do please share that with the forum because I am very interested to find out.

If you don't what are you basing these conclusions on ?

Gut feeling ? Rumours ? Speculation ? Hoping ? Wishing ?

Redfern has always had some streets that are better than others, that's nothing new. For eg Kepos street which was mentioned in one of the posts has always been a better street for tens of years , that is nothing new. Those large, nice terraces were built in the late 1800's and early 1900's.
But the suburb as a whole as you have stated does have a lower socio-economic outlook.

But let's talk about Woollahra now.

For 100 years Woollahra had, has and will continue to have one of the highest if not the highest socio-economic standards in Sydney. There is no need for it to imoprove or change because it's the best of the best.

For 100 years the high growth has been consistent and constant.

No speculation no gut feeling just 120 years of consistant history.

It is and will continue to be the market leader and outperform any other suburb when it comes to terrace houses make no mistake of that.

Regards

Ajax · 25th Dec, 2002

Originally posted by lawsjs

I had also been told the same with TNT towers and council. I believed the units story cos I thought it would make more sense from a developers point of view - Are you certain council is moving there? [/B]

Hi Lawsjs,

This is from the South Sydney Council website: -

"Move To TNT
Modified: 12 December 2002

Council recently entered into a lease to take over the eastern TNT towers at Redfern with an option to purchase.

Redfern represents the heart and soul of South Sydney and Council's physical presence will give a huge boost to local business and residents alike.

Council's decision to relocate to Redfern next year is already paying dividends to the South Sydney community. The Sydney Credit Union has indicated in preliminary discussions that they wish to accompany Council in its move.

Other advantages include:

It will stimulate local businesses and provide a boost to resident morale
It is within South Sydney Local Government Area
It is next door to flexible transport
It is a landmark building with landmark signage options
Council has an option to purchase 5000 sqm of floor space"

http://www.sscc.nsw.gov.au/router?model=c&item=2050

Ajax

Ajax · 25th Dec, 2002

and this: -

"We are moving 400 staff into the TNT Tower in mid 2003. This is an important step in leading the way for businesses and the general community to change their perception of Redfern and Waterloo. It is these type of changes that will help to alter peoples perception of how safe our community is."

http://www.sscc.nsw.gov.au/router?model=c&item=2064

investor · 25th Dec, 2002

Hi ajax

Excellent info.

I have also read that they had no choice. They had to move as everything north of Cleveland street will soon be taken over by Sydney City Council.

What are your views on that ?

Regards

Lotana · 25th Dec, 2002

Investor,

"Once again do have any specific information to back your claim that Redfern will undergo a complete makeover and it's socio-economic outlook is going to improve?

What credible information do you have that the hundreds of commission houses are going to be removed from Redfern even in your lifetime ?"

Of course I do not possess any information about Redfern which is not in the public domain. But let's look at what share investors call "fundamentals".

1. Location: you don't want to be closer to the city.
2. Government policy trends: from commission ghettoes to community housing.

Investment in such areas are not for traders, but they steadily perform better than most outer suburbs which combined with above mentioned fundamentals appeal to me as a long-term investor.

Say cheese

Lotana

lawsjs · 26th Dec, 2002

Investor,
Battle though you do, they were great properties (douglas st was the only I looked at) but if they were of that caliber then I wish I could buy them all. Your upmarket suburbs will do OK, but if you want real 'investor' cash on cash stuff, the things you mock will walk all over the things you own. You don't seem to have an 'investor' mindset, but you will do OK. You are sort of an 'anti steve mcknight' equal and opposite. I used to argue with him that blue chip property had its place - he argued tooth and nail that cash positive was the ONLY way to go. Now he has softened his stance somewhat and is buying commercial/'better' quality properties. I would be very surprised if you don't change slightly as well. Would a 26k property renting for 260/wk interest you? Before you answer I have to tell you it isn't in Woollahra. Or how about a 56k property I bought last May and just sold for $142k. That wasn't in Paddington either. In the 60's paddington was under threat from the state govt. who were seriously considering bulldozing the whole lot and rebuilding it as it was 'derelict'. I suspect you would not have thought much of your precious suburb then!
I shouldn't argue with you, I have made a lot of money out of people with your mindset, I need you to fund my insatiable appetite for toys!

investor · 26th Dec, 2002

Originally posted by lawsjs
Investor,
Battle though you do, they were great properties (douglas st was the only I looked at) but if they were of that caliber then I wish I could buy them all. Your upmarket suburbs will do OK, but if you want real 'investor' cash on cash stuff, the things you mock will walk all over the things you own. You don't seem to have an 'investor' mindset, but you will do OK. You are sort of an 'anti steve mcknight' equal and opposite. I used to argue with him that blue chip property had its place - he argued tooth and nail that cash positive was the ONLY way to go. Now he has softened his stance somewhat and is buying commercial/'better' quality properties. I would be very surprised if you don't change slightly as well. Would a 26k property renting for 260/wk interest you? Before you answer I have to tell you it isn't in Woollahra. Or how about a 56k property I bought last May and just sold for $142k. That wasn't in Paddington either. In the 60's paddington was under threat from the state govt. who were seriously considering bulldozing the whole lot and rebuilding it as it was 'derelict'. I suspect you would not have thought much of your precious suburb then!
I shouldn't argue with you, I have made a lot of money out of people with your mindset, I need you to fund my insatiable appetite for toys!

Hi Lawsj

Firstly I would like to say Merry Cristmas and a happy new year.

I must admit I am not a great fan of cash flow positive properties unless they are in the areas I like, and that is very hard to do, but not impossible in the suburbs I am fond of. Now before every one starts posting how wrong I am let me say that purchasing cash flow properties in rural areas is great if it is your cup of tea but it's not mine.

I agree with you Lawsjs that in the 60's Paddington was not a good suburb at all, and even today people who used to live there still cannot believe how much this suburb has appreciated. However Paddinton and Redfern are totally different and Woollahra even back then was considered an upper class suburb, you cannot argue with that.

Now since you have pulled two properties out of your impressive aquisitions lets have a look at them. A 26K property returning 52% sounds impressive but it would not interest me. Buying a property for 56K and selling in a year and a half for 142K is once again impressive and I take my hat off to you for that one. Congratulations.

I however will stick with one of the suburbs which are the subject of this thread and that is Woollahra, just to show you and other forumites how easy it is to make money in this suburb. Like I said in a previous thread I don't mind talking about the suburbs I buy properties in.

For you to be in this most impressive forum you are congratulated and I have total respect for your, and any other forumites investing techniques. You all are genious's at what you do and may you continue doing what makes you happy for the rest of your lives.
However to say that someone, especially in THIS forum doesn't " seem to have an investor mindset " is foolish on your part, because no mater how big and smart you think you are ( and I'm sure you are a very smart man) you will always find someone bigger and smarter than you especially in THIS forum.

Regards.

PS. Somehow I doubt you will make any money out of me. I however will be placing a couple of properties for sale soon if you are interested. I wouldn't mind making it in the papers again.

alpina · 26th Dec, 2002

While on the subject of these affordable terraces in redfern, we take it these terraces will be high maintenance from an ip perspective - ie, old and a little run down. We also suspect that the right kind of tenants will be hard to find.

So is it fair to say that people looking at this end of the market are more likely to be people that have a renovate and sell strategy rather than a buy and hold one? And if so, are they also more likely to buy these places a ppor to eliminate the capital gains liability altogether?

What is a typical renovation cost on these types of terraces - 200k?

We have been following the TNT development closely over the last 6 months and am cofident that if the public servants come to work there that the area will start to go through its period of gentrification - a process that happened very quickly in suburbs like Dee Why. We have also heard rumours of the sort of dollars they will be asking for the apartments in the other tower and indications are that the penthouses will be well over $1mill. - sounds like Kings Cross all over again.

Ben & Julie

bbruham · 26th Dec, 2002

G'day Lawsjs & Investor,

This discussion has been the best on the forum for sometime.
Your sword play between each other has been tops.
This is the forum at it's best, suburbs and streets being named,
keeping the to-ing and fro-ings going. With the help of the other partisipants, of course.
If investors haven't learnt anything from reading this post, they'll never learn.
Lawsjs and Investor please keep posting you're livening up the
forum.

Bruce G.

Winners make it happen.
Loses let it happen.

lawsjs · 26th Dec, 2002

Redfern tennants are increasingly film related and have been excellent. 200k for a reno is a rebuild job, but that will get you a 'new' house. Paddington as an area tends to be more affected by damp as it is not as flat. Conversly you often get interesting semi underground rooms.

My play on what Investor does is because of the name. I like playing with people who say 'Only buy X' cos they are wrong and will always eventually realise. Silly billies! 'Local Trader' is probably more appropriate! Even your % return on the $500k property profit I doubt would have been all that huge.

My belief is that investors - true investors - find opportunity anywhere, not just in a 5k radius of their favourite cafe. Whilst the rental I told you about was a country area, the 56-142k property definitely wasn't.

Paddington and Redfern are NOT totally different if you look at things on a different scale. I do make money out of you, principally because you leave simple bread and butter properties for me to have. Sort of investor snobbery. Guy at work has a 10m rental portfolio, consisting of 4 properties. No doubt he wll do well, but his 2.8% rental return doesn't really seem to me that good. He doesn't get my point either! Funny thing is that the pure wrapping people think you are completely loopy and don't get the value at all in prestige property. The key is balance and I do, as a small petty man like to point this out to people. One day I am sure you will buy a property way outback in say Redfern, or maybe even Surry Hills. Take a packed lunch - its a long drive!

It does appear that your investment strategy may be geared towards the media's perception of you and your achievements. It is somewhat ironic that any articles about me (especially recently) have actually been mainly about my _worst_ investment, which incidentally in CG terms has made $800k in just over a year.

Its obvious ou have done some things well, but I do find it annoying when people say there is only one way of doing things. It is very short sighted!

anyone buying in sydney at the moment?

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