Armchair Experts

[ndavy]

This could possibly be a somewhat contentious post.

After reading posts on this site for several months now, I have become aware that there are several arm-chair experts lurking around, offering their unlimited advice to seasoned investors, without ever having invested themselves.

Incredibly, I have come across people whose opinionated posts number in the hundreds, but then I am shocked to find they haven't EVER invested themselves. Sometimes I find there are people advocating what I consider to be highly risky strategies, but haven't done it themselves. It seems that often the most successful investors on this forum have the least to say. (No offence to those who have had plenty to say, as your comments are appreciated too!).

Personally, I am also a novice in terms of investing (2 IPS), but don't consider it my role to tell other experienced investors what they should be doing, especially considering my limited experience. If they have a strategy that obviously works, then power to them.

Are there too many gunnas and armchair experts here? People who have swallowed whole about a dozen get rich quick books but haven't made the big step of buying.

I'd be interested in what others think on this topic

 

[MarkB]

ND

Call me paranoid, but I expect that your last post was aimed at, among others, me.

Contrary to what some on this forum might believe, just because people have yet to actually invest does not mean that they do not have valid view points, nor useful information to share.

For the record, a significant proportion of my posts have been on economics and related matters.

These are topics that I am as much (if not more so) qualified to speak on than anyone else on this forum.

And btw. Cosmo asked me a question. He was good enough to ask it, so I was good enough to reply.

MB

 

[see_change]

Maybe you are paranoid Pitt St . Probably deservedly so .... but then again you are an economist

As you point out , when you are opinionated it is an area where you do have training. If he's not aiming at you I'm not sure who is being aimed at.

As far as I know , all the regular opinionated investors ( I include myself in that group) on the forum at the moment are active investors.

As with anything on the internet , it really is up to individuals to come to their own conclusions. Any one who acts on the basis of what they read in an internet forum with out getting advice appropiate to their level of experience is asking for trouble.

see change

 

[NigelW]

Ndavy

I've subtlely and sometimes less than subtlely stirred people to stop posting and start investing...But remember, each to their own and some people's circumstances may not permit them to be investing right now...or perhaps they are putting all their cash into a business they're building or are young/starting over and still saving to build some capital...etc

On this forum, as with all sources of info, you have to sift the wheat from the chaff. Trust me, there are nuggets of gold to be panned from the river (and sometimes torrent) of posts on this forum and once you've hung around for a while you'll figure out whose views you respect and those you disregard. As always, the forum is just one source of info, albeit a great one.

As Pitt St has noted, some people have different skill sets to contribute. Some are valuers, real estate agents, brokers, engineers, town planners, developers, IT nerds, er gurus, writers, accountants, doctors, physios, mums and homemakers...they all have something unique to add to the community and it is in sometimes surprising ways... Some posters for example may have only a few or no properties at the moment...but have owned/developed dozens+ over the years...

Go your own way... and let others do likewise (and no I'm not really old enough to remember Fleetwood Mac)

ps. to paraphrase a texan saying...reasonable sized hat and a growing mixed herd of cattle and other domestic animals...

 

[see_change]

As an example of what can happen

About three years ago there was a very prolific poster on Hotcopper and other Share forums. Every one was convinced they were in the presence of a a genuine expert, until one day some found out that the poster was in fact a fourteen year old school kid....

They were very good at cut / pasting various other sources of info.

See change

 

[bundy1964]

Do they now work for a newspaper?

bundy

 

[Peter Parker]

You beat me to it, Bundy!

I was going to suggest academic (specialising in 'review of literature')!

Peter

 

[Sunstone]

Dear Ndavy,

Agree with Nigel's valid comments.

If you haven't discovered by now there are a lot of "Gunna's" in this world. Some we try and help to get started (Yes Kevmeister) and some........will always be gunnas. Try to think about some of your own relatives and their investing actions/non-actions.

You get out of this forum what you put in. In IP investing due diligence is critical. The same goes for where you get advice from. Why wouldn't you do your own due diligence on the person who's advice you are following?

How much would you pay for the wisdom that is contained on this forum?

Enjoy the journey.

Cheers,

Sunstone.

 

[Les]

G'day NDavy,

And thanks for the thought - I believe it doesn't hurt to "Question everything" and you appear to have done that - more power to you !!!

Are there too many gunnas and armchair experts here? People who have swallowed whole about a dozen get rich quick books but haven't made the big step of buying

As others have already said, as this is an open forum, it really is up to each individual to take what they will from the forum (and question it, challenge it, and, perhaps, apply it). In the end, due diligence doesn't stop just because "someone" on this forum "said it was so!"

In any open forum, there is always the risk that those posting may in fact know LESS than you do, despite sounding "qualified". I guess it goes with the territory. I also think it doesn't lessen the worth of the forum, as ANYONE posting (even one who is starting out) can be the catalyst that inspires a thread that provides MANY readers with inspiration, knowledge, questioning, etc. And therein (in my opinion) lies the worth of the forum.

Have you noticed how a post can start with a question, but can then take off at a tangent - many of which can provide some GEMS to the rest of us. It happens regularly (and, yes, it could be Moderated to remove all such "tangents" - but, to do so, could rob us all of the gems that spring from it).

Anyway, thanks for the thought. I, too, am interested in any and all comments re your initial post ND. (Or any tangents that prove useful, inspiring, or off-the-wall )

Regards,

 

[Jakk]

Originally posted by ndavy


After reading posts on this site for several months now, I have become aware that there are several arm-chair experts lurking around, offering their unlimited advice to seasoned investors, without ever having invested themselves.

<<<<snipped lots out >>>>>>>>>>

Are there too many gunnas and armchair experts here? People who have swallowed whole about a dozen get rich quick books but haven't made the big step of buying.

I'd be interested in what others think on this topic

G'Day ndavy,

after reading your post, I looked up at a poster I have hanging on the wall above my desk. Although the relevance to Property Investing is minimal, I feel that many would benefit by reading it.
Please note the words that I have made bold



Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.


--- Max Ehrmann, 1927

 

[Fredn]

Nice Post Jakk,
Makes me feel a little better about Lurking away in the shadows trying to get an education.
Thanks to all you educators out there - we're all still learning eh?
Freddo

 

[ndavy]

Thank you all for your comments. I hope my post has not been interpreted as a criticism of anyone in particular. I have personally learnt HUGE amounts from this website. The information and knowledge I have gained from this site has been INVALUABLE. This forum is what I call a 'broad church' and should have room for all people with an interest in property investing.

 

[WillG]

Great post guys. Wrapped up nicely without aggression.

The fact that there is criticism of posts and 'random ramblings' every now and then make the forum 'real'. I often make comparisons with people on the forum to people in my life and have a chuckle to myself.

Cheers

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

ndavy,
You get a feel after a while of reading, those that have had different experiences that are real compared to those who are all theory and have not invested.

As Jakk said though, all opinions are relevant, as it is nice to know what are the opinions of those who are NOT investors(as to why). For example there are a few non property people who keep claiming the sky is falling and we are all going to lose all our assets. What will REALLY get me worried, is if EVERYONE thought we should get mortgaged to the hilt to buy IP's


While I'm not a betting man(except on the easiest race of the year to pick the winner of, the Melb cup), I'd put a few bob on the following people owning(or having control of) IP's.
Jakk
Les
Sim
Tibor
Brains
See_change
Ruby
Kristine
Sunstone
Geoffw
Aceyducey+Jas
Brenda Irwin
TW
Manny
Always learning
and apologies to a few others I can't think of at present.

bye

p.s. Godd to see you back Jakk(insightful as usual), Have you been on holiday??

 

[Gemini]

Hey Jakk,

Welcome back from me also! I've wondered where you've been too! Enjoyed your post here as always!

Gemini

p.s. can't help but wonder if you've been trawling for IP's somewhere further afield ?!?

 

[Jakk]

Originally posted by Bill.L


p.s. Godd to see you back Jakk(insightful as usual), Have you been on holiday??

Thanks Bill,

Life is a holiday

regards

 

[duncan_m]

Re: Re: Armchair Experts

Originally posted by Jakk

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Welcome back SlumLord

I've seen people sprout Desiderata for years, people have it hanging on their notice boards and it makes it rounds in emails from time to time..

Despite its dubious history it seems to be a sugar coated excuse for mediocrity to me.. I'm not sure what you actually see in it.. I think its popularity demonstrates its usefulness as something that has serious usefulness would generally be a difficult pill for most people to swallow.

Just take the extract above it seems to excuse people for not comparing themselves with others? It's OK to be yourself.. sure a person may only have 1 IP, crappy furniture, a crap job and crap friends.. but thats OK.. there's always people who are better off and worse off than them.. well the bad news is they havent done nearly well enough and unless they compare themselves to people who have done better their soul wont have the kick up the bum it requires to reapply itself. There's nothing like looking DOWN the foodchain to cause someone to rest on their laurels.

 

[XBenX]

My take on things is....There are academics and pracademics in this world. I feel I can learn something from both of them...

Ive also learnt many great investment tips from people who dont own IP's.

 

[bundy1964]

Originally posted by Bill.L
For example there are a few non property people who keep claiming the sky is falling and we are all going to lose all our assets.

Hi Bill

I didn't know that you knew my mother?

bundy

 

[Puppeteer]

Originally posted by ndavy


Are there too many gunnas and armchair experts here? People who have swallowed whole about a dozen get rich quick books but haven't made the big step of buying.

I'd be interested in what others think on this topic

I kinda don't mind the gunna's being around. Often times Chicken little might be right - maybe the sky is falling. If there weren't a few doubters amongst us, we'd kinda have our collective heads in the sand.

Also, I know of at least one gunna on this board who is not currently in a position where they can invest. That person is using the time until they can afford to enter the market to get educated, and I must say, they have done a mighty fine job, because most of the "advice" is pretty well spot on.

Like you, I've only recently started investing in real estate, but I have learnt a few things through the process, that other's may not yet have discovered. My experience can still be valuable even to the most dedicated and experienced investor.

I enjoy sharing what I have learnt, and post where I can, to, at the very least, give the poster a place to start looking. If I'm not sure - I'll say so, and if I'm wrong, then I'm fairly confident that someone who know's better will correct me, so there will then be 2 people getting educated (now there's value for ya

Personally, I like seeing newbies on the forums especially if they are asking good questions and doing their best to help where they can. Most people are afraid of asking questions, or giving advice - lest someone judges them not to know it all. I respect the courage of the people who take the plunge in either case.

To me - attitude is more important than knowledge, because assimilating knowledge is easy if you have the right attitude. Likewise, if someone who is new has an attitude of trying to help other's less experienced, even when they are fairly inexperienced themselves, that attitude will be carried on when they become more expert.

Bring on all those lurkers, gunna's and newbies I say...